Repeat nonces

[Bernie174]

1000's of people speed daily, you only have to travel any route to see that.
I'd be surprised if 1000's of people were injured or killed daily.

We can argue stats all night, but from experience there's 1000's of accidents every day, most have speed involved in the cause. But thats not the point is it? The point, or points trhere are 2. is 1. Why is it perfectly acceptable for the law to be broken because you don't agree with it, speed. And completely unacceptable for someone else? You can't complain about one without the other. Secondly, if you are going to hang/chop the nuts off a pedophile, where do you draw the line on that sort of punishment? Speeding is a crime, so lets chop the accelerator peddle foot off those that speed. Silly example, but you tell me where you draw that line. Just on crimes you disagree with?

Paedophiles on the other hand, select their victim,
and then carry out calculated damage both mentally and physically, each and every time.

Again, I have the advantage of not getting my experience of the subject from the mail. Thats not true in every case, in some yes, but like most sexual offences not all.

Where it is, then in many cases thats the reasoning in their minds. Now, as I said, I don't see how that computes, but then I don't see how it computes with gay sex either, something going the wrong way up a one way valve is not natural, and not an act of tenderness. I accept a man can love another but I do not see how that particular sex act can be an expression of it.

 

[simonblue]

Simon, my OH works directly with clinical and Criminal pyscholigists, the records on file are fact, their initial assesment as im sure you know will also include a clinical background check and thats where the figures come from, of course there are many youngsters who never get included in the system because cases were never reported, although these days its becoming more and more prevelant that cases of child abuse are reported, its not so long age that it was covered up by immediate family members due to the percieved shame it brought on the family and the fact that it was also another family member committing the offence.

Whats the solution though, regardless our differing opinions and the many other opinions, whats the solution. There are 2 seperate private studies in the North which are currently monitoring 20 seperate victims of abuse from the late 80's, the victims are monitored regularly and have regular open self help sessions with a number of therapists, 25 years on and NONE of these victims have offended themselves, or to be cynical, none have been caught offending.

Is this just luck or is it because as young victims they werent demonised and just left to fend for themselves but have been given lifelong support and understanding.

I do whole heartedly agree that there are however some evil sexual predators who cant be helped

Oh and in my initial post i said i hate discussing this subject on internet forums, the reasons can be clerly seen why in some of the replies above, highly paid and highly respected professionals who deal with these issues day in and day out dont yet have the answer so how can we ever hope some nut jobs on a camera forum could possibly have a sane solution is beyond me.

Im not drawing myself into this any further, its just not a topic im comfortable with.

I dont understand its not a topic your comfortable with,but your willing to go along with the same bullsit i have heard for years,from clinical and Criminal psychologists, its a belive that somehow all theses people can be cured or treated,same as for years we believed that psychopath could be we now know they can't.
And yes we do have answers,some people just need to be lock away for the rest of their lives its that simple,as for some of those highly paid professionals you talk about its all in the words highly paid,its not in their interest to come up with solutions you might just find yourself out of a job.

Its often the case even the brightest shining lights,cannot see what's in front of them because they are blinded by that very same light.

Also the private studies you quote,none of the victims and they were victim has show any sign of abusing,but as you say ( to be cynical, none have been caught offending ) are now not victims to you just people who havnt been caught.

So what you are saying is if a child you know or even your own happen to fall victim to an peodephile,you will think for the rest of that child's life he may offend.
So that goes on to say that if a child is a victim of say a stabbing or a robbery he going on to be a violent person or a robber ?

 

[big soft moose]

Simon, my OH works directly with clinical and Criminal pyscholigists, the records on file are fact, their initial assesment as im sure you know will also include a clinical background check and thats where the figures come from, .

I'm amazed you other half is allowed to discuss these files with you - I would have thought that clinical and criminal psycologist's files would be confidential

 

[simon ess]

I worked for a couple of years in a bail hostel for sexual offenders in an education capacity.

My very personal opinion based on that experience is that:

It is the weirdest of the weird mental disease. They are damaged beyond comprehension.

They should never have the freedom of the streets.

 

[Gary Coyle]

I'm amazed you other half is allowed to discuss these files with you - I would have thought that clinical and criminal psycologist's files would be confidential

Erm, she doesnt, she cant discuss individual cases and she doesnt. what she does discuss is in the public domain and in many reference books.

 

[Gary Coyle]

So that goes on to say that if a child is a victim of say a stabbing or a robbery he going on to be a violent person or a robber ?

its a belive that somehow all theses people can be cured or treated,same as for years we believed that psychopath could be we now know they can't.,

as for some of those highly paid professionals you talk about its all in the words highly paid,its not in their interest to come up with solutions you might just find yourself out of a job.

Now thats just [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] and you know it.

Nor as you say have i ever said they can be treated or cured, but whats the solution, we simply cant just keep locking everyone of them up for life, not because it isnt justice, but because if we could identify them all theres too many of them and it would cost a fortune.

Christ sakes, how cynical, so all those highly paid cancer specialists arent really looking for a cure in case they do themselves out of a job, and that sort of cynical s***e is the exact reason were in the state were in, lets all just roll over and give up shall we.

 

[nilagin]

We can argue stats all night, but from experience there's 1000's of accidents every day, most have speed involved in the cause. But thats not the point is it? The point, or points trhere are 2. is 1. Why is it perfectly acceptable for the law to be broken because you don't agree with it, speed. And completely unacceptable for someone else? You can't complain about one without the other. Secondly, if you are going to hang/chop the nuts off a pedophile, where do you draw the line on that sort of punishment? Speeding is a crime, so lets chop the accelerator peddle foot off those that speed. Silly example, but you tell me where you draw that line. Just on crimes you disagree with?

It's quite easy to see where to draw the line. On the whole people speed, but not with the intent to cause an accident or hurt someone else and with the number of people who have driven faster than the speed limit and not caused an accident or hurt someone is testament to that. Can the same be said of paedophiles? I'm not talking those that just look at photos and videos neither, even though they aren't much better. Thankfully the rest of our judicial system can see that difference (even if you can't) and hands out lighter sentencing for speeding accordingly.

 

[Bernie174]

Nilagin

There is no point in trying to cloud the issue with personal statements you can't back up.

The issue is both are crimes. Irrespective of your perception of the seriousness.

On the one hand, it's OK in many peoples eyes to commit one of those crimes, and on the other it should be a hanging offence. Leaving aside the hypocrisy of that, the fact remains that if you are going to punish one with retribution, why not the other? Ok, if not speeding, why not criminal damage? Theft? Drunkenness? Outraging public decency? Gross indecency?

 

[SFTPhotography]

trouble with the "burn the witch" sentencing is that sooner or later you get the wrong person , or someone who looks like the nonce concerned , or for that matter a paeditrician http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ack-People-dont-want-no-paedophiles-here.html

Whilst i would happily cut a nonce's balls off with a rusty spoon if their guilt was beyond doubt , vigilante justice is generally a bad thing

They've been convicted. It's not vigilante justice. I think for the most heinous of crimes the death penalty should apply. This is one of them.

 

[nilagin]

Nilagin

There is no point in trying to cloud the issue with personal statements you can't back up.

The issue is both are crimes. Irrespective of your perception of the seriousness.

On the one hand, it's OK in many peoples eyes to commit one of those crimes, and on the other it should be a hanging offence. Leaving aside the hypocrisy of that, the fact remains that if you are going to punish one with retribution, why not the other? Ok, if not speeding, why not criminal damage? Theft? Drunkenness? Outraging public decency? Gross indecency?

Because if there is not a hint of violence to individuals involved. That's why people get heavier sentences for armed robbery as opposed to robbery.

 

[SarahLee]

This is something that I really struggle with TBH.
I'm 100% completely opposed to the death penalty in any form - I think it's barbaric, sick and just fundamentally wrong.
I just can't get my head around the justification that because this is a vile, depraved individual it somehow makes it OK for 'us' to carry out that act upon them.

On the other hand though, there are some people who are totally beyond a 'cure' or rehabilitation and for the protection of everyone else need to be permanently removed from society at large.
How do you do that? Life imprisonment comes with its own issues and problems . . .

 

[MWHCVT]

This is something that I really struggle with TBH.
I'm 100% completely opposed to the death penalty in any form - I think it's barbaric, sick and just fundamentally wrong.
I just can't get my head around the justification that because this is a vile, depraved individual it somehow makes it OK for 'us' to carry out that act upon them.

On the other hand though, there are some people who are totally beyond a 'cure' or rehabilitation and for the protection of everyone else need to be permanently removed from society at large.
How do you do that? Life imprisonment comes with its own issues and problems . . .

Indeed, this is my standpoint the death penalty is fundamentally wrong, that said in my own mind there prison service is not how it should be...as I said earlier in the thread, I'd fully support an expansion of the prison system to accommodate a great population and with that I'd loose the concept of automatically halved sentences, I'd also like to see effectively a no frills prison service where perks could genuinely be earned...so if you want access to facilities as a prisoner you've got to earn it...

With the basic provision of a bed, toilet and food....I see no reason why commercial based work would not be a possibility such as low value parts production that would traditionally be performed off shore could be done, this would offer two direct benefits prisoner rehabilitation (getting them used to working for a living, secondly the income from it could be used to offset some of the budget of prisons...other benefits would be environmental globally from reducing the amount of low value goods shipped half way round the world...it would be a way for prisoners to earn their additional benefits such as access to TV, a gym etc

 

[boliston]

I'm sure many prisoners already work - from the "gov.uk" website:
"Working in prison
Many prisoners get the chance to work while carrying out their sentence, eg making clothes and furniture or electrical engineering.

This is done in prison workshops and is normally paid work.

Prisoners can also work around the prison itself - eg in kitchens and laundries.

A ‘low-risk’ prisoner may be allowed to work in the community."

 

[MWHCVT]

I'm sure many prisoners already work - from the "gov.uk" website:
"Working in prison
Many prisoners get the chance to work while carrying out their sentence, eg making clothes and furniture or electrical engineering.

This is done in prison workshops and is normally paid work.

Prisoners can also work around the prison itself - eg in kitchens and laundries.

A ‘low-risk’ prisoner may be allowed to work in the community."

Yep I'm aware of what is already in place don't need to look it up

 

[nilagin]

Indeed, this is my standpoint the death penalty is fundamentally wrong, that said in my own mind there prison service is not how it should be...as I said earlier in the thread, I'd fully support an expansion of the prison system to accommodate a great population and with that I'd loose the concept of automatically halved sentences, I'd also like to see effectively a no frills prison service where perks could genuinely be earned...so if you want access to facilities as a prisoner you've got to earn it...

With the basic provision of a bed, toilet and food....I see no reason why commercial based work would not be a possibility such as low value parts production that would traditionally be performed off shore could be done, this would offer two direct benefits prisoner rehabilitation (getting them used to working for a living, secondly the income from it could be used to offset some of the budget of prisons...other benefits would be environmental globally from reducing the amount of low value goods shipped half way round the world...it would be a way for prisoners to earn their additional benefits such as access to TV, a gym etc

I don't think prisoners should get perks, full stop. Their only reward should be they get out when they have done their time.

 

[Bernie174]

Because if there is not a hint of violence to individuals involved. That's why people get heavier sentences for armed robbery as opposed to robbery.

I'm sure thats a huge consolation to those that die and are injured in speed related accidents!

Actually, there's no such crime as armed robbery, it's robbery. All robbery involves the threat of, or actual violence, you'll find that the armed bit is a different offence under the firearms act.

 

[Cobra]

We can argue stats all night, but from experience there's 1000's of accidents every day, most have speed involved in the cause. But thats not the point is it?

Sure, there are minor "knocks" every day, occasionally one or two are quite serious,
and can be low speed, they don't all involve "boy racers"
If you want to compare speeding or motoring offences, to paedophiles,
I'd say it was more like a calculated drive-by
As for Actual Stats ROSPA says
Inappropriate speed contributes to around 14% of all injury collisions,
15% of (those) crashes resulting in a serious injury
and 24% of collisions which result in a death and are recorded by the police.
This includes both 'excessive speed', when the speed limit is exceeded
but also driving or riding within the speed limit when this is too fast for the conditions at the time
(for example, in poor weather, poor visibility or high pedestrian activity).

Maths was never my strong point, perhaps someone would like to work out what
15% of 14% is

The point, or points trhere are 2. is 1. Why is it perfectly acceptable for the law to be broken because you don't agree with it, speed. And completely unacceptable for someone else? You can't complain about one without the other. Secondly, if you are going to hang/chop the nuts off a pedophile, where do you draw the line on that sort of punishment? Speeding is a crime, so lets chop the accelerator peddle foot off those that speed. Silly example, but you tell me where you draw that line. Just on crimes you disagree with?

I've never suggested cutting the nuts off an offender,
Where to draw the line?
I have reasonable faith in the judiciary, and HMG, and hope that the would act in our best interests,
after all they are paid to serve us.
Sometimes I do despair at some of their "calls" though

Again, I have the advantage of not getting my experience of the subject from the mail.

I've never read the Daily mail in my life,
but its curious, most arguments / discussions contain
"accusations" of gaining information from that source.
The way I see it, it must be incredibly accurate for it to be bought into disrepute with such vigour,
or a kin to "your" favourite comic.
I've no idea which, as I said I have never read it my life.

Thats not true in every case, in some yes, but like most sexual offences not all.
Where it is, then in many cases thats the reasoning in their minds. Now, as I said, I don't see how that computes, but then I don't see how it computes with gay sex either, something going the wrong way up a one way valve is not natural, and not an act of tenderness. I accept a man can love another but I do not see how that particular sex act can be an expression of it.

I knew that you or someone would pick up on that
Gays are consenting adults that have made a life choice.
Its not for us to sit in judgement on how they conduct their lives.

As I understand it, (and I'm quite willing to be proved wrong, with proper evidence)
That very little child abuse is "same sex"
So the "homosexual argument" is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[nilagin]

I'm sure thats a huge consolation to those that die and are injured in speed related accidents!

Once again it's down to intention. One has an intention of violence and harm, the other doesn't and as previously pointed out, thankfully our judicial system knows the difference.

 

[big soft moose]

Indeed, this is my standpoint the death penalty is fundamentally wrong,

see i differ on this point , IMO given that its not "wrong" to kill your enemies who endanger your society by means of millitary force , including taking out terrorist leaders with drone strikes and such , then neither is it wrong to kill those who endanger society from within such as incorrigible murderers, rapists and paedophiles etc.

Of course in both cases it is essential to make sure you've got the right person , as its not cool to kill an innocent man whether thats done by lethal injection or drone strike on the wrong target ...

 

[Bernie174]

As for Actual Stats ROSPA says

Now, as I said, we can argue stats all day. However, keep this in mind. I have reported several 1000 accidents, in most of which speed was a major factor. However, while I reported them, I have never expressed an opinion in my accident reports as to the cause. It wasn't the way accidents were reported in the countrys biggest police force. So, where do these stats come from? Are the accurate? Clearly they can't be. So we are left with experience on the subject, which is that speed is a major factor in the majority of accidents I have reported.

I only answer that point to reinforce the point that stats are meaningless. The contents of media, be it the Mail, or TV is I'm afraid completely inaccurate on many subjects, this being one of them. You made the claim that Pedophiles behave in a particular way, you got that from somewhere.

Moving on, The subject at issue is what top do with repeat sex offenders, and why is it right to condemn one crime, but to condone another? The opinion of some is the former should have some form of physical punishment. I really don't care what happens to them, but I would be concerned if that did ever come to pass. My moot point is that crime is crime, and if you do that with one class of criminal, why not do it to all? Speeding is criminal, ergo, punish repeat speeding offenders in a similar way. Or better still, leave as is!

I knew that you or someone would pick up on that
Gays are consenting adults that have made a life choice.
Its not for us to sit in judgement on how they conduct their lives.

I have not sat in judgment, nor brought it up for any other reason than it is what used to be called unnatural sex, for good reason. I don't understand how that act is one of love, any more than I understand how sex with a child is a demonstration of love. I said, I understand how one man can love another, doesn't mean that particular sex act is right. Clearly for biological reasons it isn't. But I do know in both cases the line is trotted out that it is in the eyes of those doing it, it is for love.

 

[viv1969]

......you'll find that the armed bit is a different offence under the firearms act.

And one doesn't even have to be in possession of a firearm to be convicted.

 

[Mattyd]

there are some people who are totally beyond a 'cure' or rehabilitation and for the protection of everyone else need to be permanently removed from society at large.

There is a way they can be cured though which I suspect most would agree is less drastic than killing them - castration.


There was a documentary a few years back on C4 which followed a group (maybe 8-10 or so) pedophiles in a Scandinavian country (sorry cant remember which one). In this documentary the group tried their hardest to do something about it. Some had struggled for years and their government wouldn't help them at all, some voluntarily submitted to chemical castration and some where demonized once they admitted their issues to the polices in an attempt to seek help.

Anyway... Really interesting documentary that went some way to point out that not all pedophiles are like the child catcher that the media would have you think.

 

[big soft moose]

There is a way they can be cured though which I suspect most would agree is less drastic than killing them - castration.
.

not guaranteed to be succesful though, because for some paedophiles its about power and manipulation not sex , so removing the sex drive won't necessarily help

 

[simonblue]

Now thats just [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] and you know it.

Nor as you say have i ever said they can be treated or cured, but whats the solution, we simply cant just keep locking everyone of them up for life, not because it isnt justice, but because if we could identify them all theres too many of them and it would cost a fortune.

Christ sakes, how cynical, so all those highly paid cancer specialists arent really looking for a cure in case they do themselves out of a job, and that sort of cynical s***e is the exact reason were in the state were in, lets all just roll over and give up shall we.

The same [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] as you say about the victim

So we keep letting them out to reoffend,they need tracking watching over i wonder how much that costs,or if we can even afford it ?

There have been argument about any charity or cause that attract a lot of money,Its not cynical to question them and see if their is another way ?

 

[Cobra]

Now, as I said, we can argue stats all day. However, keep this in mind. I have reported several 1000 accidents, in most of which speed was a major factor. However, while I reported them, I have never expressed an opinion in my accident reports as to the cause. It wasn't the way accidents were reported in the countrys biggest police force.

That's curious to hear, I would have thought that in reporting any "criminal activity" ALL the facts should be reported.
You have already stated that speeding was a major factor and therefore fact.
I'm slightly bemused by your response TBH.

So, where do these stats come from? Are the accurate? Clearly they can't be. So we are left with experience on the subject, which is that speed is a major factor in the majority of accidents I have reported.

I've no idea where ROSPA gathers information, OTHER police forces, hospitals, insurance companies, "victims"
And I guess other places I haven't even thought of.
With due respect, I will take the findings of a royal society over the findings / experience of one (ex) police officer.

. You made the claim that Pedophiles behave in a particular way, you got that from somewhere.

I've never made a claim they behave in a particular way,
I responded to fact that they target and single out their victims,
be that a family member or internet grooming, all are a matter of "public record" either via news at ten
or the internet figures published by the appropriate authorities that are set up to battle this crime.

And the fact that somehow you liked the crime to speeding.
No one is defending the fact that both are crimes,
but are as different as chalk and cheese.
Speeding MAY end in someone being hurt either mentally of physically,
Child abuse, DOES end up with someone being hurt, mentally and physically.

My moot point is that crime is crime, and if you do that with one class of criminal, why not do it to all? Speeding is criminal, ergo, punish repeat speeding offenders in a similar way. Or better still, leave as is!

I don't believe that anyone is disagreeing with the fact that they are both crimes,
Repeat offenders in speeding have an increasing scale of punishment (points) and ultimately
if they don't change their behaviour very soon find themselves banned.
the "worst" offenders are banned for the first offence, of course.
Again, I say that some crimes are worse than others,
and hopefully the punishment does fit the crime.
Again, I have never said cut their balls off.

But as any right thinking parent would say, the children are our future
and should be protected.
(Basic instinct)
And I'm sure that most people (Parents)
Would certainly like to do harm to those that would harm their children,
again its a primeval instinct.
And I'm sure each and every parent would be prepared to suffer the consequences,
of their actions.
Ergo, we have all heard the expression,
I'll swing for you, you Bast....

But I do know in both cases the line is trotted out that it is in the eyes of those doing it, it is for love.

Gays can make an informed choice,
A young child cannot,
so at the very least the offender is committing rape,
Is that a defence for a "normal" human being?
I raped that person, because I loved (love) them?
The logic really does escape me.

I'm not saying of course that your comments / theory is / are incorrect,
I have never been a police officer not a criminal psychologist.

 

[Gary Coyle]

There is a way they can be cured though which I suspect most would agree is less drastic than killing them - castration.

Anyway... Really interesting documentary that went some way to point out that not all pedophiles are like the child catcher that the media would have you think.

Genuine question, does that really work

Last weeks documentary "24 hours in police custody" had a paedophile who ended up getting locked up, cant remember if he had actually touched kids or just had images but he was just a normal bloke living on a normal street in a normal town, freaky.

 

[Gary Coyle]

There have been argument about any charity or cause that attract a lot of money,Its not cynical to question them and see if their is another way ?

So everyones on the rob then, lets lock them up as well and all stop supporting good causes, Jane Tomlinson must be turning in her grave.

 

[simonblue]

So everyones on the rob then, lets lock them up as well and all stop supporting good causes, Jane Tomlinson must be turning in her grave.

The thread was about repeat offended and about a crime against children,so yes sorry but thats my answer lock them up.

No dont stop supporting good causes,but we do have the right to question them and what they are achieving.

 

[Gary Coyle]

The thread was about repeat offended and about a crime against children,so yes sorry but thats my answer lock them up.

No dont stop supporting good causes,but we do have the right to question them and what they are achieving.

OK, bye and thanks for the contribution. NOT.

 

[Gremlin]

There is a way they can be cured though which I suspect most would agree is less drastic than killing them - castration.

Not actually sure that is as effective as most like to think, certainly not in the canine world, castrated male dogs can still mate with females and
still have the urge to do so

 

[Cobra]

Not actually sure that is as effective as most like to think, certainly not in the canine world, castrated male dogs can still mate with females and
still have the urge to do so

The same applies to (some) eunuch's too,
that were "employed to look after Harems

 

[Gremlin]

The same applies to (some) eunuch's too,
that were "employed to look after Harems

Hmmmm makes you wonder

 

[simonblue]

OK, bye and thanks for the contribution. NOT.

You said in one post it's not a subject your happy to talk about on this forum,but when other members may disagree with you,your quite happy to come back time and time again to put your opinion forward,and dismiss anybody who doesn't agee with you.
Well guess what Gary other may make contribution to any thread,and are allow to disagree with you.

 

[Gary Coyle]

You said in one post it's not a subject your happy to talk about on this forum,but when other members may disagree with you,your quite happy to come back time and time again to put your opinion forward,and dismiss anybody who doesn't agee with you.
Well guess what Gary other may make contribution to any thread,and are allow to disagree with you.

Dont let facts get in the way Simon, I said im not comfortable discussing it not that i wouldnt discuss it, mainly because like i said early on you get 20 internet nut jobs who profess the only solution is to kill em off, not really a solution to any modern day societys problens now is it.

And yes youre right, anyone can disagree with me, i love a good scrap and if "i think im right" ill go down fighting but willingly put my hands up if im proven wrong, im a real pain in the ass.

 

[Bernie174]

Gays can make an informed choice,
A young child cannot,
so at the very least the offender is committing rape,
Is that a defence for a "normal" human being?
I raped that person, because I loved (love) them?
The logic really does escape me.

I've not mentioned it as a defence. What I said was they justify it, to themselves usually as an act of Love. In the past that same thing was used by Gays, and dismissed by society. Its not always rape, its often indecency, which isn't the same thing. But while I see your point, you are missing mine, in their mind, not in their evidence, it's an act of love.

Now, I don't agree with that, but go back a few years and it was equally wrong for one man to commit an unnatural act with another man. But the justification was the same.

On speeding and accidents, as I said, you should be careful. I understand that the majority of the conclusion they come to comes from convictions after accidents. As it's not usually appropriate to summons for speed it's more usually for reckless or careless. Speed makes up a component of both of those, and its easier to prove.

 

[simon ess]

Bernie, with your references to gays I really think you are treading on very dodgy ground. I would urge careful thought.

 

[Gary Coyle]

Arent there some modern countries with different ages of consent to ours, Italy and Germany it is 14 so do we accuse all men who have consenting sex in Italy and Germany with 14 year olds Paedophiles, Spain is currently 13 as is Japan and Angola is just 12.

 

[Snooky]

Being gay is a choice.......some people are bad at making references in their quotes!!!!

Think this has gone far off from the original post!

 

[SFTPhotography]

People that rape babies are a waste of oxygen and should be killed. There's nothing in that to imply we are going to start cutting the hands of theives, feet off motorists who break the law.

 

[Cobra]

I've not mentioned it as a defence. What I said was they justify it, to themselves usually as an act of Love. In the past that same thing was used by Gays, and dismissed by society.

I fully understand what you are saying, and do take your point.
Although going right back, it did appear that you were saying,
that's what they offer as a defence.
Maybe I miss read the post?

Its not always rape, its often indecency, which isn't the same thing.

I'm not sure what point you are replying too, are you saying that
"Indecency" is the charge levelled against paedophiles?
Because that was the only reference I made to rape.

As it's not usually appropriate to summons for speed it's more usually for reckless or careless. Speed makes up a component of both of those, and its easier to prove .

I understand what you are saying, but a reckless and or careless driver can do / be that.
at any speed.
So are you saying speed is the easiest to prove in (a lot of) driving offences?
(Just curious no hidden agenda )