Police sniffer dog rarley acurate......

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Holden Caulfield

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Recently a woman was arrrested because she took pictures of her boyfriend being aressted after a 'sniffer dog' detected drugs on him , a subsiquent search found no evidence of drugs and the incident made national headlines.

Intrestingly one poster stated that in his experience "sniffer dogs are rarely inaccurate."

Which is why I was intrested in this article which showes that far from being accurate the police would be better of just 'guessing who may have drugs on them !!

Is this just another case of the authorites using inifficient and dishonest means to stop and search Citizens?:thinking:
 
i think thats nonsense, sniffer dogs are accurate and right most of the time. they are used in many different environments, check out search and rescue. or is that just another reason to harrass people ;)
"GET OFF THE MOUNTAIN"
lol
 
As a police dog handler (albeit not 'sniffer dogs'), I am reluctant to dismiss the capabilities of working dogs. I have seen specialist dogs (drugs, explosives and tracking) working and with amazing results. False indications 99% of the time come down to handler error or lack of training. Whilst I can sit in my ivory tower, knowing that I dedicated maximum time with my dog, as did my collegues,I had the time to do so. I am all too aware that BTP and Home office forces have a far greater workload and operational effectiveness will lower due to this. This cannot be helped, without sounding cold hearted, police dogs are simply another tool. They are a tremendous asset to the police and the good they do far outweighs the inconvienience of a false indication for drugs.

I sympathise that it may be distressing and certainly embarressing to be wrongly accused, but if you have done nothing wrong, then the truth will out. The police have a job to do, and they are fighting a losing battle, rather they are out there doing the best they can, than ignoring a growing problem simply as not to cause offence.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't:)

And yes, I know I am biased, but hey:shrug::)
 
but if you have done nothing wrong, then the truth will out.
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So we are all guilty unless we can prove ourselves innocent then ?

On that basis why not arrest us all hen just release the ones who can prove they are innocent.

police dogs are simply another tool.
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And a blunt one by the sound of it
 
Police do not decide who are guilty and who are innocent. They gather the evidence. I accept that police dogs are not 100% accurate, but my opinion is based on many years of operational experience, working police dogs. I've seen first hand the good they do.

I would be loath to make a judgement based on an article in the media

Rather than simply dismiss your statement purely on the basis that i disagreed, mine was just a valid point in a debate, of which I am more than prepeared to accept both points of view.
 
A few years ago I organised a large dog event and one of the displays we had were the "sniffer dogs".

These dogs were certainly accurate at the event and I was one of the stooges that had drugs placed on me. Later in the afternoon I was back in their area and the dogs that I was anywhere near all alerted on me even though I had had to return the drug packet so I must still have had the smell on me and they were not officially working at the time.

I would agree with Wilmorh - I am not a police dog handler or anything but have trained my own dogs to obedience competition level, that most problems, once the dog knows what to do, are down to handler error.
 
You don't have to have drugs on you too have had drugs on you.
Do the dogs only detect the presence of that person having come in contact and not necessarily be in possession at the time of search.
Providing searches are carried out in a safe and proper non heavy handed manner and people don't get @rssy then it should not be a problem, but.....
 
Interesting article
I do think that "on occasions" the police do try and find reasons to
stop people and that includes motorists under very "thin" circumstances.

I have a working ( hunting) GSP that I have trained to point game.
They need the "ability" to start with some breeds have it some don't.
( even some dogs within those breeds can be pretty useless but its up to the handler
to "read" the dog")

I would say that she "misses" a point occasionally
I get around 20% "false points", that is, she is pointing
a fresh scent but the quarry had "left" recently.
ie near a rabbit burrow or tuft of grass where a game bird may well
have been sitting.

this is not in defence of the police nor condemnation
just to show the ability of a trained sniffer.
 
Holden Caulfield said:
So we are all guilty unless we can prove ourselves innocent then ?

On that basis why not arrest us all hen just release the ones who can prove they are innocent.



And a blunt one by the sound of it
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:shrug:..:bang:..Holden..get in the real world before its too late..:help:
 
Providing searches are carried out in a safe and proper non heavy handed manner and people don't get @rssy then it should not be a problem, but.....
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So do as we are told then? ..... smacks of Orwell to me somtimes it's hard to beleive that we live in a democracy
 
This is so vaguely related to photography - put it in the OOF section and let's have threads related to togging
 
Starrider ,

I do live in the real world a world where my civil liberties are being erroded on a daily basis.
 
I think the article is biased. Read the whole mission statement of Release and it seems they're just looking for a fight. It's groups like that that cause more trouble for the sake of then complaining about it.

I'd rather be searched 10 times than see one more drug dealer on the streets. The Police have their problems, but I think they do a decent enough job with their dogs.
 
Holden Caulfield said:
So do as we are told then?
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Pretty much, yeah. Its called the law, and whether you like it or not, the people who try thier very best to enforce it, are just humans. Get over it.

Police, fire service, nurses, teachers, all these people tell you what to do for a living, much of the time, for your own safety. And much of the time they put thier own lives on the line. I think it stinks that people can't simply get on with their own lives, and accept the innevatibilty of being incovienienced occaisionaly.

Why are you so important that you shouldn't be told what to do?

Seems a bit wierd that you would think anyone is that superior to the rest of us?
 
Think this might be about more than civil liberties.

This bloke arrested, Saville, isn't just some random nobody. He's in the public eye as the head of a pro-drugs charity.

He's also a former drug addict (well there's your reasonable grounds for S&S!)

Smells like a publicity stunt to me.
 
Sounds like he went looking for trouble, who knows what he was doing before he was stopped.

Pro-drugs charity, what a freaking joke. They're illegal for a reason.
 
wilmorh said:
Pretty much, yeah. Its called the law, and whether you like it or not, the people who try thier very best to enforce it, are just humans. Get over it.

Police, fire service, nurses, teachers, all these people tell you what to do for a living, much of the time, for your own safety. And much of the time they put thier own lives on the line. I think it stinks that people can't simply get on with their own lives, and accept the innevatibilty of being incovienienced occaisionaly.

Why are you so important that you shouldn't be told what to do?

Seems a bit wierd that you would think anyone is that superior to the rest of us?
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:plusone:

Remember, with the cops we wouldn't have Road Wars on Sky1 and that would be a travesty.... ;)
 
wilmorh said:
Pretty much, yeah. Its called the law, and whether you like it or not, the people who try thier very best to enforce it, are just humans. Get over it.

Police, fire service, nurses, teachers, all these people tell you what to do for a living, much of the time, for your own safety. And much of the time they put thier own lives on the line. I think it stinks that people can't simply get on with their own lives, and accept the innevatibilty of being incovienienced occaisionaly.

Why are you so important that you shouldn't be told what to do?

Seems a bit wierd that you would think anyone is that superior to the rest of us?
Priceless..;)
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Come and live where i live and work.. you will see the real world..not a bit like Mossley i suspect.
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Starrider.

Don’t patronise me, Yes I live in Mossley , for most of my life I lived in inner city Manchester, I was also a drug worker who spent time working with ex offenders and individuals with severe mental health issues in vey depried areas.

So less of the sterotyping please:thumbs:
 
I think it stinks that people can't simply get on with their own lives, and accept the innevatibilty of being incovienienced occaisionaly.
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Do teachers really put their lives on the line daily?

Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance :lol
 
Holden Caulfield said:
Starrider.

Don’t patronise me, Yes I live in Mossley , for most of my life I lived in inner city Manchester, I was also a drug worker who spent time working with ex offenders and individuals with severe mental health issues in vey depried areas.

So less of the sterotyping please:thumbs:
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You for one then should know of the reality of stop n search..sniffer dogs etc..I rest my case..
ps,i dont do stereotyping..thought that was what you were doing at the beginning of your post..im bored now..:D
 
fire service, nurses, teachers, all these people tell you what to do for a living
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:lol:

Tell me again what county do you live in ? The answer to you statement is that all the above do not tell you what to do , they rather advise and make options availabe.

At this point most of the formum is not laughing with you...... :lol:
 
Maybe you are right, maybe I am way off in my beliefs. But I have a deep respect for all that are trying to sort out the problems in this country. The system may be flawed, but thats just life.
 
You for one then should know of the reality of stop n search..sniffer dogs etc..I rest my case..
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Yes I do, then reality is that most dealers do not carry their stash with them, or waps a popular place are peoples hedges where the drugs van be stored , money exchanged and then the 'customer' is directed to the hedge.

The Facts are always friendly, and the facts at the moment point to the Inefficiency of police dogs in detecting somone carrying drugs

,i dont do stereotyping..thought that was what you were doing at the beginning of your post..
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Er yes you do. intermating that because I live in a semi rural area that I did know the reality of drug use. dont think it does not go on here

im bored now
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Back to the Mail on Sunday then :)
 
The system may be flawed, but thats just life.
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Not good enough,

Would you be happy to hear that from your GP or your children’s teacher?

That is the whole point of a progressive democracy that we challenge and change things that are unjust and inefficient, historically if we had not done that you would not have had the vote or had the opportunity of becoming a police officer. ;)
 
Holden Caulfield said:
Yes I do, then reality is that most dealers do not carry their stash with them, or waps a popular place are peoples hedges where the drugs van be stored , money exchanged and then the 'customer' is directed to the hedge.

The Facts are always friendly, and the facts at the moment point to the Inefficiency of police dogs in detecting somone carrying drugs



Er yes you do. intermating that because I live in a semi rural area that I did know the reality of drug use. dont think it does not go on here



Back to the Mail on Sunday then :)
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Nope..im going out to take some photos after i have read "The News Of The World"..:razz:
 
:popcorn:


i can see this getting ugly soon

my question would be if they are so inaccurate why do customs use them and take millions of £££££ of drugs probley more off the street's via airports , dock's etc

when i worked the door's the venue management used private sniffer dog's to walk through the club with 4 door staff to search people and i we must of caught 50 people in one night and got 1 wrong search but he said his mate smokes weed so it was obviously on his clothes so i would say they are very accurate from my experience
 
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Oh dear - if this doesn't stink of a set up I don't know what does! High profile man with a political hobby horse and also an ex drug addict, gets wrongly picked out by a police sniffer dog - well I never!

My money is on the dog. There's are plenty of ways to make sure you stink of drugs without actually being in physical possession, which is the actual evidence which needs to be found.

Peter Hain MP many years ago orchestrated his own arrest purely to throw discredit on the police identification parade procedure and to further his own political ambitions before he was the pins striped pillar of the establishment he'd have us believe he is today.
 
i can see this getting ugly soon

my question would be if they are so inaccurate why do customs use them and take millions of £££££ of drugs probley more off the street's via airports , dock's etc

when i worked the door's the venue management used private sniffer dog's to walk through the club with 4 door staff to search people and i we must of caught 50 people in one night and got 1 wrong search but he said his mate smokes weed so it was obviously on his clothes so i would say they are very accurate from my experience
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Firtst of all where is your evidence that the customs make millions of £ using sniffer dogs? Most serious drug sezuires by customs are intellignce led and not by fido...

As for sniffer dogs in night clubs, I bet if I breatherlised everybody in a night club most would be over the limit , It's no suprise then that a dog would find drugs in a night club, is it it really . you might as well have gone in holding a stick of Blackpool rock, tapped people on the shoulder with it and said " empty your pockets I bet staistically you would have got the same result.

Lets be honest the use of snifer dogs in clubs is just so the owners can be seen to be 'policing' their bussiness.

As for trouble will the Forum have a door policy from now on " You can't come in wearing a Nikon, forum rules";)
 
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Holden Caulfield said:
I do live in the real world a world where my civil liberties are being erroded on a daily basis.
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That is the kind of comment I'd expect from someone who has something to hide.
How do sniffer dogs and their use, erode your civil liberties?
Use of sniffer dogs is a means so not every one has to be inconvenienced. Nothing in life is 100% reliable. You appear to be someone who has a problem with authority and apparent dog hater.
I've been pulled over by the police on a couple of occasions in my youth and again in the last 15 years (I'm 46) and my car has been searched and I've answered a few questions. Other than the slightest inconvenience, I have had no problem with it.
The reasons I've been pulled over from cutting a corner whilst turning into a road, just driving down a road with a few friends and a car that had suffered some rear end damage and "looked" unroadworthy. In each case I was on my way within 10 minutes tops. It's no big deal.
 
That is the kind of comment I'd expect from someone who has something to hide.
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Oh that old chestnut, this type of thinking was used by the gestapo and **** other dictorship in the world.

By tha basis of your statemet wpould you be hgappy for your house to be searched with out a warrent ?

No thought not , got something to hide ...eh?
 
Holden Caulfield said:
Oh that old chestnut, this type of thinking was used by the gestapo and **** other dictorship in the world.

By tha basis of your statemet wpould you be hgappy for your house to be searched with out a warrent ?

No thought not , got something to hide ...eh?
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As I have nothing to hide, no I'd have no problem. but then again, I have no plans of getting myself into a situation where such an occurence is likely. As I wrote before, I have been pulled over by the police on several occasions, been questioned and had my car searched, all different cars and different years and areas.
Feel free to outline any dealings you've had with the authorities. I can only assume you've had many to feel so strongly.
 
Holden, I think it's time to put this to bed now, becasue you're not going to find anyone here who'll agree with you. All I can take from what you've said is that whether carrying drugs is illegal or not, you apparently condone it and think the police have no right to detect such infractions.

You'll be telling us drug use should be legal next. It's all getting too political for me.



:lock:
 
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