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coke is still readily available over th counter at all good supermarkets
and off licences
Right thats got that one outta the way
I think that basically you are on the right track with this
Legal government controlled and heavily taxed
drugs would be the way to go
( after all thats what cigarettes are, and you don't tend to get gang crime
over a few packets of B&H now do you ?
Whether or not it would reduce gang type crime I have no idea
but I bet that it would help to reduce it
is it worth it? who knows but the basic idea is sound
Flash In The Pan
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..................... :boxer:
Typical Saturday night, except you missed out the
and 
foggy4ever
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what about partying?
ladysue
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Arent we lucky living in a country where we are allowed to debate this and any other topic freely and without fear?
I know that there has been some Big Brother tactics used by councils and that we are watched most of the time we are out by CCTV. However this is still a good country to live in if you behave yourself.
We need to do everything we can to stop the illegal drugs industry because it causes so much other crime, and sniffer dogs do work. At least they alert their handler to the fact that they can smell drugs on a person.
Even so called soft drugs like marijuana can be dangerous. There have been many instances of its use causing long term mental health problems including psychosis and scizophrenia. My nephew is one person whose life has been ruined in this way.
I know that there has been some Big Brother tactics used by councils and that we are watched most of the time we are out by CCTV. However this is still a good country to live in if you behave yourself.
We need to do everything we can to stop the illegal drugs industry because it causes so much other crime, and sniffer dogs do work. At least they alert their handler to the fact that they can smell drugs on a person.
Even so called soft drugs like marijuana can be dangerous. There have been many instances of its use causing long term mental health problems including psychosis and scizophrenia. My nephew is one person whose life has been ruined in this way.
welly
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coke is still readily available over th counter at all good supermarkets
and off licences
Right thats got that one outta the way
I think that basically you are on the right track with this
Legal government controlled and heavily taxed
drugs would be the way to go
( after all thats what cigarettes are, and you don't tend to get gang crime
over a few packets of B&H now do you ?
Whether or not it would reduce gang type crime I have no idea
but I bet that it would help to reduce it
is it worth it? who knows but the basic idea is sound
It's been my belief for a long time that illicit drugs such as heroin, crack and so on should be controlled and distributed for free on the NHS. Obviously not to just anyone who wants it but half the problem with drugs is the crime that surrounds it. Remove it from the street and you put a whole lot of gangs out of business. The NHS would be in a better position to help users and if users don't need to rob/steal to fund their habit, that's another element of crime that could be removed.
Obviously they'd never go for it, even though it makes sense. If they're not going to legalise cannabis then they're certainly not going to make heroin and crack available. Maybe in 50-100 years time when the old, narrow minded codgers die out and a government with some kind of sense comes into power.
welly
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All drugs whether legal, illegal, over the counter or prescription are dangerous if used incorrectly and used in dangerous quantities. That goes for everything from anadin to beer.
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and what happens when a 'patient' is denied access to the drug they want, then hell they;ll just go and nick it and cabam your back where you started from
surely the NHS controlling the distribution of such a drug wouldnt actually solve the problems caused by the drug itself mearly prevent some of the crime that is undertaken to fund a habit.
isnt the majority of the illegal drugs industry (from source through to supply) operated by largely criminal activity and for the NHS to be associated with such industries make a complete and total mockery of itself, remember that the crime surrounding drugs isnt simply a smack addict mugging someone for some money to get a hit, it goes as far back as illegal importation, smuggling and more than likely funds the likes of a Taliban (due to the opium growing areas of Afghanistan) a good idea to associate the NHS with :shrug:
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As with anything addictive, a user will become accustomed to his/her dosage, they won't be able to achieve the same effects and are likely to seek more.
Why should I have to pay for some one to get out of their head on the NHS.
If they are daft enough to take drugs themselves, let 'em fund it themselves.
welly
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Because you're paying for the "war on drugs", which was estimated in 2005 to be costing the country £16 billion a year and so far hasn't been remotely successful. The point is NOT to pay for people to get high but to control the substances, to cure addicts while reducing crime.
foodpoison
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But, as Mr Macky says, "Drugs are bad, m'kay."
*sigh*
*sigh*
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Holden Caulfield
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No but it gives you options, and usually the ability to focus on other aspects of your life such as a career , family and relationships , which if you are poor is very difficult to do.
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Holden Caulfield
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CT you are right, I should not have included the winky smile.
I of course make reference to the recent events of MPs stealing from the tax payer claiming duck houses and interest on mortgages that had been paid off, I dont know what that constitutes in you world but in mine that is theft.
As for my assertion that thugs drive round in police cars, I would point you the numerous images and videos showing police officers attacking members of the public at the G20 protests.
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Holden Caulfield
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He just wont give up will he...:bang:..imagine having him teaching your child..
So this is how you debate is it ? not on the facts but on personal insults :shake:
I guess one of the reasons that children go to school is so that they gain the ability to think and reason.
thats why they call it education
ladysue
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CT you are right, I should not have included the winky smile.
I of course make reference to the recent events of MPs stealing from the tax payer claiming duck houses and interest on mortgages that had been paid off, I dont know what that constitutes in you world but in mine that is theft.
As for my assertion that thugs drive round in police cars, I would point you the numerous images and videos showing police officers attacking members of the public at the G20 protests.
I was disgusted by the pictures of a couple of policemen attacking people at the G20 protest. However the huge majority of officers do a good job in difficult circumstances. In any profession there are a few bad eggs but that does not mean you should label all the rest as bad. Your comment that "thugs drive around in police cars" is offensive.
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There lies the problem, who is going to supply those who want it but the NHS won't. Drug dealers. Unless the NHS were to give the dosage for immediate use on the premises and under supervision, users will just sell part of their prescription to someone else who isn't "fortunate" enough to have the NHS as their supplier.
As far as legalising cannabis, I know of several people who now suffer from paranoia, schizophrenia, depression etc. from such usage. People in a moderately well paid job, some of who have had to give up working and end up being kept by the state because of the illnesses incurred. I know of one man who on £30,000 a year, started stealing copper from work to fund his habits. He was sacked just before Christmas, already 6 months in arrears on his mortgage, and he has two young son's approaching their teens.
In comparison to what? What would this country be like if that amount of money isn't spent.
You go on about big brother watching and monitoring your every move, tour civil liberties being eroded, yet you want them to supply you with drugs. You think that in 50-100 yrs time the government should be legalising and supplying drugs and of course it would be unethical for them to produce and supply something that could control people to the point we do everything they want and all your civil liberties would then be gone.
foodpoison
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Tarring the police with the same brush is a horrible thing to do. My girlfriend's father is in the armed response section of the police and he is in no way even remotely similar to a thug.
Rory, you make comments about seeing the images and videos in the media of police attacking members of the public at G20.
The only reason you see all of those videos is for shock factor. Controversy sells.
You don't see videos and images of the public attacking the police, because, well, no one really cares. A man gets pushed down by a policeman and, whether it was the cause or not, eventually dies. Man, that news sells!
Those police had to put up with a LOT of crap that day. Some police can keep their composure a lot better than other police, it's human nature for you to retaliate to someone throwing a glass bottle at your face.
I wouldn't consider them thugs. Some are, undoubtedly. But the majority are not.
Rory, you make comments about seeing the images and videos in the media of police attacking members of the public at G20.
The only reason you see all of those videos is for shock factor. Controversy sells.
You don't see videos and images of the public attacking the police, because, well, no one really cares. A man gets pushed down by a policeman and, whether it was the cause or not, eventually dies. Man, that news sells!
Those police had to put up with a LOT of crap that day. Some police can keep their composure a lot better than other police, it's human nature for you to retaliate to someone throwing a glass bottle at your face.
I wouldn't consider them thugs. Some are, undoubtedly. But the majority are not.
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Yes there will be a bad element in any walk of life or profession. But they are human beings, much the same as you or I. Put someone on the end of verbal abuse for a period of time and at some point, anyone or everyone will snap. As in anything in life, we usually only get to hear about the bad things. If such protests had gone off peacefully, where would the numerous images or videos be, nowhere, it rarely makes good news.
foodpoison
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There lies the problem, who is going to supply those who want it but the NHS won't. Drug dealers. Unless the NHS were to give the dosage for immediate use on the premises and under supervision, users will just sell part of their prescription to someone else who isn't "fortunate" enough to have the NHS as their supplier.
As far as legalising cannabis, I know of several people who now suffer from paranoia, schizophrenia, depression etc. from such usage. People in a moderately well paid job, some of who have had to give up working and end up being kept by the state because of the illnesses incurred. I know of one man who on £30,000 a year, started stealing copper from work to fund his habits. He was sacked just before Christmas, already 6 months in arrears on his mortgage, and he has two young son's approaching their teens.
In comparison to what? What would this country be like if that amount of money isn't spent.
You go on about big brother watching and monitoring your every move, tour civil liberties being eroded, yet you want them to supply you with drugs. You think that in 50-100 yrs time the government should be legalising and supplying drugs and of course it would be unethical for them to produce and supply something that could control people to the point we do everything they want and all your civil liberties would then be gone.
Damn legalising cannabis would be terrible wouldn't it.
I knew someone who got really drunk and decided to drive home and he ended up killing himself, his 3 mates in his car, and also the passenger of another car.
Oh, yes, also, I knew someone who smoked 60 cigarettes a day and they died of lung cancer.
Also, one of my friends is so addicted to coffee he actually very nearly vomits in the morning if he doesn't get up and immediately get his fix.
I completely agree with you about the complications of legalising it, and I reckon it has been discussed and found that to legalise it would be more hassle than to condemn anyone who uses, but saying that marijuana is terrible because you know someone who has come very close to ruining their life from it is stupid. You can ruin your life with anything if you don't have enough will power, and so adding cannabis into the equation will not actually change the outcome of that equation.
It's very similar to the whole "Do video games/rock music/violent films make people violent?"
No, they don't. Violent people are already violent. The above just give them ideas.
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CT you are right, I should not have included the winky smile.
I of course make reference to the recent events of MP’s stealing from the tax payer claiming duck houses and interest on mortgages that had been paid off, I don’t know what that constitutes in you world but in mine that is theft.
As for my assertion that thugs drive round in police cars, I would point you the numerous images and videos showing police officers attacking members of the public at the G20 protests.
Like every profession, the police service is a cross section of society, and despite the fairly stringent selection process, the odd bad apple is bound to get through. I've personally arrested bank managers, solicitors, clergymen, teachers, and sadly a couple of policemen all for offences of dishonesty, but I dont tar all those professions with the same brush as you seem to delight in doing.
I particularly remember a PE teacher who punched a 15 year old lad in the mouth knocking out a couple of teeth after enduring more than he could stand from a known bully and trouble maker of quite considerable physique for his age. He paid a heavy price, losing his job with little hope of getting another job in teaching as well as having to go to court.
No doubt you'd find it somewhat offensive if I deemed you to be a thug on my experience of that case.
I don't know what age group you teach, or what subject, but I'd be a little concerned about you teaching kids of mine and passing on your irrational political views.
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I agree, will power has a lot to do with it, I have a work colleague who has the odd recreational spliff. But he admits that after the high, he feels depressed and a little paranoid. He is strong enough to overcome it and only uses it rarely.
I have only ever got moderately drunk, I don't get violent, I just get relaxed and laugh alot. I can remember being in a car with someone who had drunk probaly 4 times as much as me. I can remember thinking I could die and couldn't have cared less. That was over 20 years ago, and to be honest, I would rather live life for what it is, I don't need any artificial escapism, I think and hope my sons will feel the same. I don't drink anymore, I have never used drugs nor smoked and I haven't drunk tea or coffee in over 20 years either.
I take my pleasure from my family and life as it is and the only thing which I do which again is without artificial enhancment is weight training and fitness. I get a buzz from the feeling of pumped muscles or the exertion of a good workout. (No I'd never consider using steroids).
ladysue
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I dont particularly want to start another debate on video games etc but I disagree with you on this point.If children are exposed to violence from an early age, whether directly by witnessing domestic violence or by watching violent movies and playing violent games they grow up believing that it is normal, and they find it less shocking.When they get enjoyment from playing violent games they learn to associate violence with pleasure.
Also, if the other point you made about knowing someone who has riuned their life with marijuana refers to me, I can say that as a psychologist I was aware of several such cases and believe that it is a lot more common than people realise. I just think that young people should be made aware of this danger. Then, like cigarettes and alcohol, they can make a choice as to whether to take that risk.
Right - I'm fairly sure Wilmorh will have been hoping I'd see this and wade in and I'm afraid I am not one to disappoint! And seeing as how dogs can't type i guess its down to me to defend them!
What gives me the right? Well its like this. I am a drugs dog handler! All be it in the military and not with the Civvie bill but i have done a little bit with them so think I'm probably qualified.
Firstly - please stop calling them sniffer dogs! All dogs sniff! These are highly trained search dogs. It takes approx 20 weeks and a lot of time, patience and expertise to train search dogs. (OK now that's off my chest!)
As has been mentioned by several, the dogs are not inaccurate. There are certain circumstance where they may appear to be but this is usually a misunderstanding.
The dogs know exactly what they are doing but sometimes the handler may get it wrong. Just like a child, if a dog has been doing an activity for an extended period then the dog may try to, "blag" it. (Its like a child being told when he tidies his room he can have sweets - he then gets bored shuts the door to the room and tells his mum he's done it in the hope of getting the sweets! A good Mum would check the jobs been done.) The handlers job is to recognise exactly when the dog is doing this - with my dog he wont look at me if he is telling the truth, he will stare at where he thinks the drugs are. Whereas if he's blagging then all I have to do is ask him if he's sure and he will come away from his indication. This takes a while to perfect and I am sure every handler can tell you stories of when they were fooled by their dog but all operational handlers should be able to recognise a "blag".
Another cause of a "false" indication is that the dogs can work on residual scent; and this is where I think people get anti. (Of note here is that as the dog gets more experienced and better at his job the more likely he is to indicate on residual scent). As has been mentioned particularly contaminated items, such as bank notes, can cause an the dog to indicate. The dog is not wrong, just very very good. This is why a dogs "evidence" is not taken in court. The fact he has sat in front of you means nothing unless the subsequent search produces hard evidence.
All handlers are taught this on their course -just because the dog indicates and the handler stops you and asks you to empty your pockets doesn't mean that he automatically thinks your a druggie. All the indication does is give the handler justification to ask you some questions and maybe search you, he must still find evidence before you can be charged with anything.
To be honest its all a fuss about nothing as far as I am concerned. I would rather be stopped and searched a thousand times and them find nothing than allow the bus driver, pilot, builder, taxi driver, teacher, lifeguard, hairdresser, etc etc etc to be in a position where they could potentially do harm to me, my family, friends or loved ones while under the influence of drugs. All the talk about civil liberties is OK until someone on drugs causes tens or even hundreds of people injury or death. Then everyone would be baying for blood as to why the Police had done nothing to prevent it.
Right - I think there are more words there than I have written in total on this site until now so I'll leave it there. Just wanted to point out why its possible for the dogs to be "wrong" and hopefully to put to bed a few questions about them.
Chris
What gives me the right? Well its like this. I am a drugs dog handler! All be it in the military and not with the Civvie bill but i have done a little bit with them so think I'm probably qualified.
Firstly - please stop calling them sniffer dogs! All dogs sniff!
These are highly trained search dogs. It takes approx 20 weeks and a lot of time, patience and expertise to train search dogs. (OK now that's off my chest!)As has been mentioned by several, the dogs are not inaccurate. There are certain circumstance where they may appear to be but this is usually a misunderstanding.
The dogs know exactly what they are doing but sometimes the handler may get it wrong. Just like a child, if a dog has been doing an activity for an extended period then the dog may try to, "blag" it. (Its like a child being told when he tidies his room he can have sweets - he then gets bored shuts the door to the room and tells his mum he's done it in the hope of getting the sweets! A good Mum would check the jobs been done.) The handlers job is to recognise exactly when the dog is doing this - with my dog he wont look at me if he is telling the truth, he will stare at where he thinks the drugs are. Whereas if he's blagging then all I have to do is ask him if he's sure and he will come away from his indication. This takes a while to perfect and I am sure every handler can tell you stories of when they were fooled by their dog but all operational handlers should be able to recognise a "blag".
Another cause of a "false" indication is that the dogs can work on residual scent; and this is where I think people get anti. (Of note here is that as the dog gets more experienced and better at his job the more likely he is to indicate on residual scent). As has been mentioned particularly contaminated items, such as bank notes, can cause an the dog to indicate. The dog is not wrong, just very very good. This is why a dogs "evidence" is not taken in court. The fact he has sat in front of you means nothing unless the subsequent search produces hard evidence.
All handlers are taught this on their course -just because the dog indicates and the handler stops you and asks you to empty your pockets doesn't mean that he automatically thinks your a druggie. All the indication does is give the handler justification to ask you some questions and maybe search you, he must still find evidence before you can be charged with anything.
To be honest its all a fuss about nothing as far as I am concerned. I would rather be stopped and searched a thousand times and them find nothing than allow the bus driver, pilot, builder, taxi driver, teacher, lifeguard, hairdresser, etc etc etc to be in a position where they could potentially do harm to me, my family, friends or loved ones while under the influence of drugs. All the talk about civil liberties is OK until someone on drugs causes tens or even hundreds of people injury or death. Then everyone would be baying for blood as to why the Police had done nothing to prevent it.
Right - I think there are more words there than I have written in total on this site until now so I'll leave it there. Just wanted to point out why its possible for the dogs to be "wrong" and hopefully to put to bed a few questions about them.
Chris
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So this is how you debate is it ? not on the facts but on personal insults :shake:
I guess one of the reasons that children go to school is so that they gain the ability to think and reason.
thats why they call it education
Whereas it's okay for you to insult two groups within society who generally are hard working, honest and decent individuals?
If you're going to put forward an argument don't ruin it with hypocrisy.
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Thank you x
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foodpoison
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It's all each to their own mate
I have a laugh when I'm drunk but everyone reacts differently
foodpoison
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Hence why there are certificates for rating games and films.
A young child should not be playing violent video games as that is effectively illegal. That is down to parenting, and we all know that bad parenting usually ends up with bad kids.
No the point I was making about someone ruining their life with marijuana was a completely universal one. Not aimed at anyone in particular. I totally agree with that. I think kids should be told the facts and allowed to make their own decisions, however if the parenting isn't strong it's unlikely they're going to make a decision that will affect them positively. It's the same as anything.
If a kid isn't taught that stealing is bad, what is there to stop them? How would they know?
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I know, but I can't see the point in wasting precious time being wasted, when there is so much more I could be doing.It's all each to their own mate
foodpoison
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As I said, each to their own. Some people might think "Christ I can't see the point in taking photographs, I'd rather go somewhere and witness it, than faff around with a camera."
I know people who can't have a good night unless they're bladdered and dancing like an idiot in a nightclub. I can go down the pub, have a few drinks, go home at 11:30 and feel as if the night has been a good one, similarly I can go dancing in a nightclub and feel the same.
As said, each to their own.
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My friend came back from Amsterdam, sniffer dog went mental, they found no drugs whatsoever....... friend did admit to me that there was an item with suspect weed of the rolled up to smoke type in his pocket the night before and he chucked it before getting on the plane,
Clever doggie!
My friend came back from Amsterdam, sniffer dog went mental, they found no drugs whatsoever....... friend did admit to me that there was an item with suspect weed of the rolled up to smoke type in his pocket the night before and he chucked it before getting on the plane,
Clever doggie!
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foodpoison
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My friend came back from Amsterdam, sniffer dog went mental, they found no drugs whatsoever....... friend did admit to me that there was an item with suspect weed of the rolled up to smoke type in his pocket the night before and he chucked it before getting on the plane,
Clever doggie!
I bet the dogs have a field day with people getting off planes from amsterdam
