Pocket money part timers

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Studi0488

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There are a few post where people say they do a bit in the side for pocket money, or part time, friends and family etc, does this effect your business?

For me its not a problem, we operate at a business level that demands full time commitment and resources.
 
I am struggling to see the point you are making

This is free market capatalisim 101.. market forces and all that
 
People who operate part time still operate at a "business level", even if they don't rely on it as their main income source.

Same with people who work in part time employment, does not automatically mean they do a worse job than a full time member of staff.
 
boliston said:
People who operate part time still operate at a "business level", even if they don't rely on it as their main income source.

Same with people who work in part time employment, does not automatically mean they do a worse job than a full time member of staff.
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Nobody is talking about "quality" of work the discussion is based around part timers using there hobbies to make money, and does it effect full time businessses?
 
Does it affect full time business, possibly. Scenario if all sources of cheap jobs dissapeared and demand then exceeded supply for Full time, then market forces would raise prices, basic economics. Is it likely no!!
 
I would presume that a pocket money part timer will affect full time businesses in the same way a full time business will affect other full time businesses, but to a proportionally lesser extent. Possibly even less than that.
 
Doubt it has any effect as even stock photography portfolios can't be made to the same level when you are just part time and have limited resources and contacts. Most businesses won't touch a free lance over a proper rated business if the freelance doesn't offer lower than market rate prices due to quality control.
 
Would this have anything to do with a thread in the business section referring to 'part timers' not being a real business etc?

My photography business is run around my full time job. It gets no less dedication than any business would get. I don't have free time, it's all work time or family time.

As for whether it can effect other people's business, of course it will, just to varying degree's. I know for a fact that I've had a negative effect on the few local togs in my area purely due to the number of weddings I've done and as I am now pushing the studio side of it as well I've noticed them having to make a much bigger effort to keep up. Some of these are part time or full time, one is part of a printing/framing company so he does everything and a joint friend has commented that he isn't as busy as normal. I also charge mid range prices for what I do offer, just as I feel it keeps the business rolling in at a steady rate and I've not got to charge dirt cheap prices and do crap loads of work for the same amount of money.

There are people that charge 1/3 that I do, and people that charge double. Quality of my work is equal that of the higher chargers but they offer extra's I don't. I have people charging the same as me (including a friend of my wife's) and she's resorted to underhanded silly comments on facebook to try and get business. It's not working ;)
 
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been discussed a few times on here.. generally it goes like this -

someone (either/both a part timer or a full timer) says something slightly insulting at the other

chaos ensues

thread is locked
 
Studi0488 said:
There are a few post where people say they do a bit in the side for pocket money, or part time, friends and family etc, does this effect your business?

For me its not a problem, we operate at a business level that demands full time commitment and resources.
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Purely out of curiosity.

I just looked at your profile but couldn't see anything relating to a link to your business.. I was just curious what your studio was called as your description looks quite impressive?

Can we have a look?
 
There is a place in the market for everyone. Be they weekend warriors or full time just like there are people who will be happy to pay a lot of money for photography services and others who wont. The main difference is the price as it isn't the sole income for the weekend warrior if they like they can charge less as they are not dependent upon it for their income. To be honest the people who will only pay £10 for an 8x6 or £150 for wedding photography probably not the customers that full time photographers are looking for anyway?
 
Studi0488 said:
There are a few post where people say they do a bit in the side for pocket money, or part time, friends and family etc, does this effect your business?

For me its not a problem, we operate at a business level that demands full time commitment and resources.
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The general line back to 'pocket money' part timers, an people who only charge a 'small amount just to help towards gear' is that there's no such thing in the eyes of HMRC, where as soon as you have started touting for work - you're running a business.

We've been through it all lots of times, but people charging really low rates aren't even necessarily part time, for instance, because of what it costs me in time to set up and take down a studio, I couldn't get anywhere near your pricing - and you're making money with large overheads:thumbs: Trying to compete with you would see me working for less than minimum wage by factors.

The market has always been diverse, there have always been part timers and full timers, as others have said - market forces ensure a status quo, the state of the economy generally has much more effect on business. Average prices were climbing considerably before the recession and at best have stagnated for a few years (not scientific, a gut reaction) and there's also regional variations in spending based on the economy rather than the number of 'part-time' photographers.
 
Phil V said:
The general line back to 'pocket money' part timers, an people who only charge a 'small amount just to help towards gear' is that there's no such thing in the eyes of HMRC, where as soon as you have started touting for work - you're running a business.

We've been through it all lots of times, but people charging really low rates aren't even necessarily part time, for instance, because of what it costs me in time to set up and take down a studio, I couldn't get anywhere near your pricing - and you're making money with large overheads:thumbs: Trying to compete with you would see me working for less than minimum wage by factors.

The market has always been diverse, there have always been part timers and full timers, as others have said - market forces ensure a status quo, the state of the economy generally has much more effect on business. Average prices were climbing considerably before the recession and at best have stagnated for a few years (not scientific, a gut reaction) and there's also regional variations in spending based on the economy rather than the number of 'part-time' photographers.
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Thanks phil, good post, this isn't a witch hunt, its a discussion people. And I am sure every single part timer is disclosing it to HMRC :love:

And I thought working for min wage was normal, I earn a lot less.... :(
 
Studi0488 said:
And I thought working for min wage was normal, I earn a lot less.... :(
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I thought you said you ran a highly succesful business ? :shrug:

I usualy cost my time at £50/hour (I used to use 25/hour til i realised it was a lot lower than average market rate)
 
Mark Anthony said:
Purely out of curiosity.

I just looked at your profile but couldn't see anything relating to a link to your business.. I was just curious what your studio was called as your description looks quite impressive?
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search for clothing photography, we are number one, or studio 488 .co .uk we have a few websites some I need to take down as they are so old.
 
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Phil V said:
The general line back to 'pocket money' part timers, an people who only charge a 'small amount just to help towards gear' is that there's no such thing in the eyes of HMRC, where as soon as you have started touting for work - you're running a business.
.
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true , although if you arent making a profit after costs of gear etc they don't necessarily insist on a tax return ( I went through several years like this and after year 2 hmrc advised that a return wasnt necessary until a profit was being made, but records should be kept in case of a spot check)

on the wider discussion there's no reason for someone charging a very low rate to be a threat to businesses who charge a lot more - because they are essentially sweeping up customers who wouldn't have been of interest to the established pro anyway.

someone who charges £1000 per day isnt going to lose realistic customers to someone who charges £100 per day because its a different market, they are far more threatened by another business charging £950/day for a comparable product.

as i've said before a porsche dealership isnt threatened by a secondhand car salesmen opening up across the road selling pre used protons and kias. They are however threatened by a lotus dealeship opening next door.
 
big soft moose said:
I thought you said you ran a highly succesful business ? :shrug:

I usualy cost my time at £50/hour (I used to use 25/hour til i realised it was a lot lower than average market rate)
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It's tongue in cheek, we have a very good accountant :) I officially earn whatever my tax code is, the rest is poured back into the business, It's a long term investment, and no monetary value can be associated to living 5 streets away from the studio, and the freedom associated with it. (Except holidays)

And I think it's successful but that said i have no benchmark, but this is our 6th year, we owe nobody a penny, with exception to a 35k mortgage on a 200k building, and have a lump of cash in the bank.

Success can be measured in so many ways though, not just financially, I will change to unbelievably successful when we can go on holiday :)
 
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big soft moose said:
I thought you said you ran a highly succesful business ? :shrug:

I usualy cost my time at £50/hour (I used to use 25/hour til i realised it was a lot lower than average market rate)
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No need to answer, but do you get full time work at that rate, or is it diluted over the year?
 
Mark Anthony said:
Cool thanks, just fancied taking a look at what you do.
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I thought everyone's curious mind worked like mine, when someone making a lot of noise (no offence) turns up I always check them out - it took a matter of minutes to find the website - I'd still prefer a user profile with a real name and location in though. Otherwise it's difficult to offer some types of help and I feel rude talking about people in their presence without mentioning a name.:)
 
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is the question how any pro togs offering "mates rates" find that impacts business, (presumably the old "but you did mollys wedding for £60 she told me last week in costa"?),

or are you asking how having non pro's using cameras in situations effects the business of people who claim to be good enough to charge for such a service as a primary income?
 
Phil V said:
I thought everyone's curious mind worked like mine, when someone making a lot of noise (no offence) turns up I always check them out - it took a matter of minutes to find the website - I'd still prefer a user profile with a real name and location in though. Otherwise it's difficult to offer some types of help and I feel rude talking about people in their presence without mentioning a name.:)
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Love a nice friendly forum......
 
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Mark Anthony said:
Mr Studio.. Learn how to use the quoting tags!

As you've just made me look very bad!
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sorted... going to look at the other mucked up one now


edit: I think they are now sorted with the right quotes attributed to the right person. If any are still wrong, just shout
 
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Studi0488 said:
Love a nice friendly forum......
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How's that not friendly?

It's about an intelligent attitude to the 'how do you value an anonymous opinion' debate. I now know when I can trust that you know what you're doing :love: (re-read my posts in your 'wedding training' thread).

If, whilst digging around I'd found out you'd never shot more than your aunties old frocks for ebay and you were offering advice - I'd have a different attitude to your advice:thumbs:

I'd say that makes me relatively intelligent with enough cynicism to get me through life. I'm certainly not an untrusting type - because I use enough nouse to understand who to trust;).
 
Phil V said:
How's that not friendly?

It's about an intelligent attitude to the 'how do you value an anonymous opinion' debate. I now know when I can trust that you know what you're doing :love: (re-read my posts in your 'wedding training' thread).

If, whilst digging around I'd found out you'd never shot more than your aunties old frocks for ebay and you were offering advice - I'd have a different attitude to your advice:thumbs:

I'd say that makes me relatively intelligent with enough cynicism to get me through life. I'm certainly not an untrusting type - because I use enough nouse to understand who to trust;).
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I was upset, almost had a little sniffle about the "noise" reference, I am a sensitive sole and it only takes a little insignificant thing to get me all emotional........ Why is there no ****ing crying icon...... It's going to set me off agan.
 
Following on from that other thread:

If all the fulltime self employed photographers limit their working week to 37 hours, and learn to live on that income - never mind getting rich :)

Then the work that's left over will create more full time jobs in the industry and everyone can concentrate on working just our 37 hours as fulltime photographers :woot::woot:

Do we need a gentlemans agreement to set a 'living wage' level or are we happy to leave that to market forces?
:banana::banana::banana:
 
I think the usual reason for starting this kind of thread is purely promotional. The OP would like to drive page views to his site to keep up the position, I don't think he really needs to know anything about part timers.

If nobody knows you are there then a Web Site is as pointless as putting your images up among the 7 Billion others on Flickr.

JK.
 
normally i don't have that much time for a lot of what studi0844 posts , but that suggestion is ridiculous , how exactly does asking a question like that drive views to his site ? :shake:
 
Rankbadyin said:
I think the usual reason for starting this kind of thread is purely promotional. The OP would like to drive page views to his site to keep up the position, I don't think he really needs to know anything about part timers.

If nobody knows you are there then a Web Site is as pointless as putting your images up among the 7 Billion others on Flickr.

JK.
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Cynical as I am, the OP has generally tried to keep his actual business profile away from his activity on the forum, to the point where he doesn't even include his name and location.

The discussion re part-timers has been highlighted (again) due to some recent posts on other topics. Although like most here I don't think there's any more discussion required, I could almost write the script for one of these threads and I've only been a member a couple of years.

Edit: as usual Pete has said the same as me in half as many words.
 
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Rankbadyin said:
I think the usual reason for starting this kind of thread is purely promotional. The OP would like to drive page views to his site to keep up the position, I don't think he really needs to know anything about part timers.

If nobody knows you are there then a Web Site is as pointless as putting your images up among the 7 Billion others on Flickr.

JK.
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What are you on about, clearly have zero clue as to what your talking about, last thing I need is to be higher up on google, position 1 is as high as you can get...... And I think if you could be arsed to look I try to make sure my websites are no listed here.......:cuckoo:
 
big soft moose said:
normally i don't have that much time for a lot of what studi0844 posts , but that suggestion is ridiculous , how exactly does asking a question like that drive views to his site ? :shake:
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Spot of the green eyed monster there me thinks :thumbs:
 
Studi0488 said:
What are you on about, clearly have zero clue as to what your talking about, last thing I need is to be higher up on google, position 1 is as high as you can get...... And I think if you could be arsed to look I try to make sure my websites are no listed here.......:cuckoo:
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First thing everyone did here was go looking for you, then you told them where to find you (pictures of your Auntie's clothes) and no, I don't need to know what you do.
 
Rankbadyin said:
First thing everyone did here was go looking for you, then you told them where to find you (pictures of your Auntie's clothes) and no, I don't need to know what you do.
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Seriously stop taking whatever it is you taking, New Year's Eve is over......
 
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