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Dale.

Dale.

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Dale.
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Evening all,

Long story short, in October 2014, we had to move out of our home due to a leak from a pipe feed to our bath. We are living in bungalow and it is a floating floor, ie, a huge concrete slab, a layer of polystyrene and then boards on top. The boards started going soft and when investigated, it was predicted the leak had been going on for 3 months or so. The damage was huge, again a long story short, the house had to be gutted and everything replaced, walls, floors etc.

The work was contracted out to an Insurance approved builder. They were in 4 months and when we got back, on the face of it, our house was practically brand new. However, things soon started going wrong, I found 4 more leaks, in time to prevent any damage, our bathroom cabinets fell off our bathroom walls, injuring my Wife. I dread to think about the consequences if my 3 year old Daughter, at the time, had been anywhere near that cabinet when it fell.

Anyway, I have notified the builder as these things have cropped up and they have fixed them, one by one but I lost all confidence in their work and despite the works being under a 2 year guarantee, I decided to get the smaller things done by tradesmen I had confidence in.

We were aware that our boiler was coming up to it's due service and we got a gas engineer in, who highlighted some problems with our boiler and the way it was installed. Basically, the clamps sealing the flue joints have been but together quite sloppily.

I am now in dispute with the original builder who carried out the original works to our property and he is basically only agreeing to inspect the clamps. I presume he will then just replace them and it's end of story for him. I do feel agrieved though as I'm quite sure this is a significant safety issue, potentially dangerous and risking our lives.

Also, where the flue exits through the wall, the interior side has not been sealed.

Just wondering if anybody here can advise or would be happy with the screws used and the way they have been fitted?



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Ta.
 
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Who contracted the work out to the first builder? You say insurance approved but not who organised that bit as suspect any contractual obligations would be based upon this.
 
Not surprised you're unhappy, that all sounds a nightmare. Was the builder actually Gas Safe approved? I assume the flue was all leak tested on installation? Whatever, that looks pretty shoddy work to be honest. I would have expected nuts and bolts on the clamps rather than self tappers. At the very least he could have put them on straight, doesn't look like he has any pride in his work.
 
If your life was in danger, the guy servicing the boiler would be obliged to cut the gas supply, preventing you from using the boiler.
 
Not good at all and i'd say such fixings are not standard, therefore illegal.
I know nothing of the standard but that's the kind of diy job that's dangerous.
 
The fixings could be standard, just poorly fitted.
What make is the boiler?
 
Report the gas chap that did that work to the gas safe register. They investigate suspect work. They get another gas person out to look at it and they'll decide whether it's reasonable or not.

If insurance company paid for the work then I'd be hassling them about reparation and compensation for the poor workmanship if their repairs aren't up to scratch.
 
Get it checked Dale, you can't mess around with that sort of thing.
 
tom24 said:
Get it checked Dale, you can't mess around with that sort of thing.
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He's had it checked. the guy that serviced the boiler will have checked the flue seals. it is very sloppy though,and I'd want it fixed if It was my boiler. the inside of the flue hole not being sealed isn't a safety issue, just poor workmanship. I see it from time to time when I'm quoting for new boilers.
Some of the things I come across that have been done by supposed gas safe installers would horrify you.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
He's had it checked. the guy that serviced the boiler will have checked the flue seals. it is very sloppy though,and I'd want it fixed if It was my boiler. the inside of the flue hole not being sealed isn't a safety issue, just poor workmanship. I see it from time to time when I'm quoting for new boilers.
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Guid,like I said, I know nothing of the standards but sloppy aye, it's not a good image of workmanship.
 
B1ts said:
Who contracted the work out to the first builder? You say insurance approved but not who organised that bit as suspect any contractual obligations would be based upon this.
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That would be the company we have our house insurance with. Their Personal Claims Advisor recommended the builder, as he was aprroved by the insurance company. With hindsight, that smells a bit. ;)

boogie man said:
Not surprised you're unhappy, that all sounds a nightmare. Was the builder actually Gas Safe approved? I assume the flue was all leak tested on installation? Whatever, that looks pretty shoddy work to be honest. I would have expected nuts and bolts on the clamps rather than self tappers. At the very least he could have put them on straight, doesn't look like he has any pride in his work.
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Apparently, the builder contracted the gas work out, although I never saw a gas engineer here on my progress visits. Also apparently, a safety certificate was issued in Janurary 2015. :confused:

Bobsyeruncle said:
If your life was in danger, the guy servicing the boiler would be obliged to cut the gas supply, preventing you from using the boiler.
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The last guy to service it was the builder, or his apparent engineer. We had a guy here recently to continue our maintenance and he recomended I got in touch with the person/s who installled the boiler due to the way it had been left. I have installed 3 CO monitors now.

tom24 said:
Not good at all and i'd say such fixings are not standard, therefore illegal.
I know nothing of the standard but that's the kind of diy job that's dangerous.
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I could do a better job myself but I'm wary of touching it.

Bobsyeruncle said:
The fixings could be standard, just poorly fitted.
What make is the boiler?
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It's a Baxi Bob. The screws do actually seem to be standard for a new fitting, but these are our old ones, re used. Also, in the first picture, the screws are fitted opposite facing, which means at least one of them is screwed into 'nothing'.

srichards said:
Report the gas chap that did that work to the gas safe register. They investigate suspect work. They get another gas person out to look at it and they'll decide whether it's reasonable or not.


If insurance company paid for the work then I'd be hassling them about reparation and compensation for the poor workmanship if their repairs aren't up to scratch.
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That's a course of action I am considering as my communications have now become untenable with the builder. He says a gas engineer did all the testing when the boiler was re fitted. I don't know who that engineer might have been but I find it hard to believe a gas certified engineer would have fitted it this way and approved it.

I've hassled the insurance company several times but only got our original Personal Claims Advisor to call me back, who has been guite bullyish and also is the person who recommended the bulder to us originally. Smell that whiff again?

tom24 said:
Get it checked Dale, you can't mess around with that sort of thing.
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Yep, it worries me. Apparently, it was checked when re-installed but I'm not entirely convinced, Apparently, it has been issued a certificate but that doesn't mean a lot. There are good gas fitters and there are bad.

Bobsyeruncle said:
He's had it checked. the guy that serviced the boiler will have checked the flue seals. it is very sloppy though,and I'd want it fixed if It was my boiler. the inside of the flue hole not being sealed isn't a safety issue, just poor workmanship. I see it from time to time when I'm quoting for new boilers.
Some of the things I come across that have been done by supposed gas safe installers would horrify you.
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It's not been serviced since being re-installed but we had somebody out to continue ongoing maintenance recently and he raised the issues.
 
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Dale how old is the boiler? Only reason I'm asking is, it might be an idea to sign up with BG & get their `service plan`. If they find fault with it (which they may be more likely to do as they might try to sell you a newer one) they may give you extra weight when informing your insurance company & making a complaint. You can always cancel the plan afterwards.
 
Dale. said:
It's not been serviced since being re-installed but we had somebody out to continue ongoing maintenance recently and he raised the issues.
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Although he's raised the issues regarding the quality of the work, he must have checked that it was safe. whether our engineers (Scottish Gas) are servicing or maintaining, they have to ensure its left in a safe condition.
 
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OldCarlos said:
Dale how old is the boiler? Only reason I'm asking is, it might be an idea to sign up with BG & get their `service plan`. If they find fault with it (which they may be more likely to do as they might try to sell you a newer one) they may give you extra weight when informing your insurance company & making a complaint. You can always cancel the plan afterwards.
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If they find fault they will fix it, as long as the parts are available, then charge you if you cancel. they won't find a fault just to try and sell a new boiler.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Did they find a fault?
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Yep & because of the age of the boiler they tried to get a `salesman` round because getting parts in the future might prove troublesome. They actually did fix it, but quoted something like £3.5k for a new boiler! (more if paid on a monthly plan)
Needless to say she didn't take up the offer.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Although he's raised the issues regarding the quality of the work, he must have checked that it was safe. whether our engineers (Scottish Gas) are servicing or maintaining, they have to ensure its left in a safe condition.
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No Bob, my impression was he didn't want to touch it and advised me to get in touch with the installer/builder urgently. You raise a fair point though. (y)
 
OldCarlos said:
Dale how old is the boiler? Only reason I'm asking is, it might be an idea to sign up with BG & get their `service plan`. If they find fault with it (which they may be more likely to do as they might try to sell you a newer one) they may give you extra weight when informing your insurance company & making a complaint. You can always cancel the plan afterwards.
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The boiler was originally fitted when the house was built, 2004.
 
Dale. said:
No Bob, my impression was he didn't want to touch it and advised me to get in touch with the installer/builder urgently. You raise a fair point though. (y)
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Ah, OK
I'd get it checked asap then. any good engineer should still check that it's safe though.
 
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You have my full sympathy we discovered a leak between the bathroom floor and the kitchen on returning from holiday in sept .at the moment we have a totally gutted bathroom ,with just a toilet ,and a kitchen with one wall stripped back to brick ,the offending pipe was buried in the wall ..you never know if I,m lucky I might even get a bath before Christmas
 
It's not nice Jeff, here's ours.

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The fittings are standard but one of the screws is the wrong way round and on that I think it may have originally had a rubber seal on the join. If it has been "refitted" then it is now nothing to do with the original installer and if you were issued with a safety certificate and are unhappy with it then you should contact gas safe The engineers details will be on the safety certificate. I hope all goes well for you it must have been a terrible situation to go through.
 
gerry s said:
The fittings are standard but one of the screws is the wrong way round and on that I think it may have originally had a rubber seal on the join. If it has been "refitted" then it is now nothing to do with the original installer and if you were issued with a safety certificate and are unhappy with it then you should contact gas safe The engineers details will be on the safety certificate. I hope all goes well for you it must have been a terrible situation to go through.
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The builder who was contracted and recommended by our insurance claims advisor removed the boiler and then according to him, a certified gas engineer was used to re-fit it and apparently, a gas safety certificate was issued. I've never seen or have a copy of that certificate. It just doesn't add up, I can't help feel that the boiler was re-installed by the builder's normal crew.

Maybe I should ask the builder for a copy. :sneaky:
 
Yup - or even the original.
 
Having read through the post I believe that you should be contacting your insurance company to discuss the executionof the work. They have an approved list and have recommended the builder? Doesn't say much for their being process.

I think you need to make a record of everything you believe to be wrong and ask the insurance company to send a surveyor around.

These cases are always a bit messy.
 
If a non gas safe person did install the boiler then that's a criminal offence right there...

Keep the evidence and make sure someone like Watchdog gets hold of it. If there is one rogue builder I'd think there will be more. Insurance companies need to vet their contractors very carefully.
 
Contact the insurance immediately and ask for copy of the gas safety certificate, If they dont send it then contact gas safe on 0800 408 5500 and explain your worries to them, they will no doubt send an inspector out pretty quickly. If they do send you a copy of the safety certificate then still get on to Gas Safe and give them the details.
 
gerry s said:
Contact the insurance immediately and ask for copy of the gas safety certificate, If they dont send it then contact gas safe on 0800 408 5500 and explain your worries to them, they will no doubt send an inspector out pretty quickly. If they do send you a copy of the safety certificate then still get on to Gas Safe and give them the details.
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That's your first job.
Next, contact your insurance company with a detailed report of all the shoddy work. In the cover letter, explain that you've contacted them already but are unhappy with the response and want it looked at by someone independent to your claims advisor. Make sure it is clear that you are making a complaint - this ensures it will be dealt with properly according to the strict rules for financial services sold to consumers.
 
Well, thanks for the comments all.

It gets better. I've tried speaking to the builder first hand but got nowhere and it's now untenable to communicate with him.

Today, I'm making myself a coffee and something catches my eye. One of our kitchen cabinets, which is close to the window, didn't look parallel to the window itself. Bearing in mind that our bathroom cabinets have already fallen off the wall once, I tugged the cabinet and it is loose on the wall. I have an almost 5 year old daughter in this house and now I don't feel it's safe here.


Complaint about the builder officially made to my insurance company.
 
Yes, she was. She wrenched her neck/shoulder trying to slow the fall of the cabinet, instinct kicked in. She also hurt her foot when something fell on it. It didn't need medical attention though and there's no record of it medically. I'd rather her be ok.

I want to avoid the messiness of any suits and the like but if my family's safety has been seriously compromised, I will do what it takes.
 
It shouldn't be necessary but is a useful recourse (and hence threat).
Tell the insurance company that you hold them liable as it was their builder and your contract is with them. They had/have a duty of care towards you and have been negligent IMO.

No point going after the builder - Cowboys will just fold the company.
 
I'd be going after the insurance company. They have the deeper pockets and you should be able to assume the contractors they use are competent. I definitely think contacting Watchdog is a good idea. How many other bodge jobs has this builder done? Others could easily be even more dangerous.

I think the phrase 'no win no fee solicitor' should also be mentioned.

Often home insurance includes legal cover so you may have a fun time contacting them and ask how you use their legal cover to sue their arse for employing an incompetent and dangerous builder!
 
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I agree. You should be chasing the insurance company here, it's their choice of builder that has got you in this position. Write to them with a list of the problems that need sorting out, tell them you hold them responsible for the problems and that you want the work rectified (and properly) or you'll be taking the matter further. No need to mention legal action at this point: see what their response is first.
 
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