People and portraits feedback. :(

How bout a "Pat on the Back" section, for when you need a little Ego Massage, without someone whizzing on your cornflakes?
 
ding76uk said:
The in depth critique was a very small section for all genres which is where it failed, you had to search to find the type of photos you wanted to critique. If all sections were made critique only then it would be easier for the person giving critique to find a type of photo they would like to critique.

I think that the current system is worse than before. I think turning the critique section into a limited post, purely critique section would be worth a try. You would then encourage posting in photos for pleasure for other stuff.

By allowing critique to be an option in a critique section of the forum it really does lead to the issues we are seeing here. Lots of photos that don't want critique being posted. I know the prefix is meant to leave it as optional to leave critique but you result in people just looking for "Nice Pic" or indeed giving that as critique.
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I have always maintained the "critique" prefix should be opt out, not opt in.
I would like to see all sections except fluffy ki, sorry photos for pleasure to be labellled critique.
 
lawrie29 said:
How bout a "Pat on the Back" section, for when you need a little Ego Massage, without someone whizzing on your cornflakes?
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Already exists doesn't it?
 
cobra_lite said:
I've only been here a few weeks
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No, youve been here for much longer than that, but were banned.

:wave:
Hi .... Rob, Arkady, Arkady2 etc.

Could you not keep away? Hope the family are well, but as this is an account of a previously banned member......
 
Marcel, not wishing to double guess you, but are you sure?

It's the wrong back story and feels different. A German ISP would make it more likely of course.
 
Wow, I read this thread over a nice strong triple espresso, very interesting, especially the last few posts!!

Back to the point where people have been accusing memebers of advertising - I dont see it that way for certain. They post a lot of similar images, of the same area of photography because that is what they do. I shoot sport and landscapes. Therefore you wont see any threads put in for crit in people and portraits, or nude and glamour (though if I had a willing model I might, lol!) etc etc. Though if I did, as a first timer in those areas I would want crit. Then on the basis of the views displayed in some of this tread I shouldn't chance it as they might be rubbish? If they were, and I didn't see it, I'd want to know!

I dont see whats wrong with posting image after image of someone's chosen area of photography in order to share and improve - thats the aim of this site afterall isnt it?

Where has all the back stabbing come from recently??
 
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^ indeed, that as well.
 
It's all the more disappointing if it is Rob that's decided to lay into Simon like this, especially as I seem to recall Simon giving him some good advice when Rob was getting ready to shoot a wedding himself.
 
jamesb84 said:
:agree:

Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of people out there who, as AWP states, have an over-inflated sense of their abilities.

You will never improve if you don't take some critique.

My first full-time job as a sports photographer was with a small agency run by a guy who used to be at the Press Association. He had extremely high standards, and would phone me pretty much every Sunday and list the things I'd done wrong the previous day, explaining why they'd not sent out various images and what I should do better.

Sure it's disheartening when you get told "you sent 30 shots, we sent out 10 to the papers 'cos the other 20 were guff"...but it certainly strengthens your resolve to get all 30 sent out.

If I'd not got that sort of critique, which I'm sure on here would either result in a suspension for the person giving crit or a dummy-spit from the OP...I would simply not have improved.

It's something I see happening all the time. Being in sport, you have the luxury of being able to look at other guys work from the same event. Some people are out there, doing the same crap work every week with the same dodgy exposures, awful cropping and wonky horizons accompanied by incorrect captions and generally bad subjects. I'd bet a fiver they're not getting anything like the sort of critique I got.

There are some people here who DO have a lot of experience...yeah some of us come across as gruff crotchety *******s but that's what happens to a lot of snappers after a while. Try and see through the "how it's said", people on TP generally seem to put a lot more emphasis on this issue, WHY!? Who cares how someone says something if what they're imparting is good advice.

Listen to WHAT is being said, not HOW it's being said.
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I agree with 98% of that.

The first 1% I disagree with is the last sentence. It's just as easy to slate a shot and be nice about it as it is to be rude.

The second 1% is about being banned for giving harsh critique. 100% no, you would be banned for being a rude, arrogant ******** but that's different.
 
dod said:
I agree with 98% of that.

The first 1% I disagree with is the last sentence. It's just as easy to slate a shot and be nice about it as it is to be rude.

The second 1% is about being banned for giving harsh critique. 100% no, you would be banned for being a rude, arrogant ******** but that's different.
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Why though, if it is a point, however it is made does not really matter. What you read as rude I might read as totally acceptable.

If you got someone you admire in photography field to critique your work, you would find the majority would probably offend if written here. You want critique prepare for critique, not to be wrapped in niceties.

Get rid of this photo, you have missed focus, bin it. No point in saying anything else, unless it's sharp no one cares.

I have had that as critique on my work, would that offend people? I find no offence in this kind of crit, it is direct and to the point and about an image NOT ME.

Why write in 2 paragraphs what you can say in a sentence.
 
ding76uk said:
Why though, if it is a point, however it is made does not really matter. What you read as rude I might read as totally acceptable.

If you got someone you admire in photography field to critique your work, you would find the majority would probably offend if written here. You want critique prepare for critique, not to be wrapped in niceties.

Get rid of this photo, you have missed focus, bin it. No point in saying anything else, unless it's sharp no one cares.

I have had that as critique on my work, would that offend people? I find no offence in this kind of crit, it is direct and to the point and about an image NOT ME.

Why write in 2 paragraphs what you can say in a sentence.
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That photo is **** and you're an idiot who should bin the camera

or

That photo could have been improved by etc

Two totally different approaches. The first is unacceptable.
 
jamesb84 said:
That photo is **** was a regular as my first crit...often followed by "you could make it good by doing..."
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which is exactly the point - in the vast majority of cases, the people that say 'that pictures is crap' don't follow it up with 'It could be improved by....' Whereas the people that will say, 'sorry, its not really a keeper' will often follow it up with 'but if you did.....' or '...because x/y/z is wrong imo'

Which sort of leads onto the old chestnut of 'I am not qualified to offer an opinion' - now that really is rubbish, because everyone can have an opinion, and state why they do or don't like an image, even if they hold their hands up and admit they have not got the knowledge yet to advise on improving....
 
jamesb84 said:
"That photo is ****" was a regular as my first crit...often followed by "you could make it good by doing..."

Different people express things in different ways, why should TP try and change that and force people into expressing their views in a way that deemed more suitable? It reminds me of a recent story (not sure how true) where the Government contacted the BBC to ask them not to use the word "cuts" but to use the word "savings". Surely it's up to the individual to dictate how they wish to say something.

I'm also not suggesting that actually harsh critique is a bannable offence here! Just that some of the language used would be!
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I don't see the crit as the problem most of the time. We get countless reports of people complaining about posters being rude when most of the time it's just people being too precious about the quality, or lack thereof, of their images. As you already said people often aren't used to critical appraisal of their photography and out comes the dummy when it happens.

It's because of that that we have to try to encourage a certain style of critique. Some might see it as too soft, or even censorship, but at the end of it all it's a big forum and we have to try to run it for the majority. We can't keep everyone happy all the time. :(
 
jamesb84 said:
So could we agree that whether it's rude or not (to a point) as long as there's some advice to follow-up then we're OK?!
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Absolutely, you guys in sports are some of the best at it, probably because of your past :thumbs:
 
jamesb84 said:
Really?! People complain with RTMs about getting critique?!

I may have been being somewhat naive but I honestly would not have expected that.

And :$ for telling us what we all knew... SPORT IS THE BEST! ;)
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Me too.

Still think that there should be a show your work section and a crit section. Warning upon entering that critique possibly will be harsh, but that it is not personal etc.

Bans for those who waste mods time by being too touchy about having their work criticised.
 
jamesb84 said:
Really?! People complain with RTMs about getting critique?!
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Like I said, people report what they percieve to be overly harsh critique. We then consider it and form a group opinion although sometimes it can be pretty obvious :p

I said you guys are some of the best, everyone knows motorsport is actually top of the tree ;)
 
Some strange attitudes on here considering it is a photography forum and has always been about sharing images whether you are a pro or beginner. The site has a lot to offer and I found that studying experienced photographer's work was very beneficial and as I improved I was able to de-construct the images through close analysis and this undoubtedly helped my improvement. I for one have learnt a hell of a lot on here and much of it from studying other peoples work such as Simon Revill's and knowing him quite well on a personal level I can categorically state that some the comments on here regarding advertising his services have been laughable. Yet again a small minority have probably driven away another member who has a lot to offer.

I am one of those who posts multiple images (but obviously not a full set) and it has certainly never been with the intention of getting some back-slapping or to improve my SEO rankings, the main reason it was done was to put back what I had gained from here. I have always invited critique and welcomed it when people responded with their thoughts - after all, it is the only way to improve. This subject about multiple images/wedding threads has come up before and I was very disappointed at some peoples attitude, even more so this time around and now I'm not going to bother - *******s to it, why should I waste my time posting images if they are to be met with derision. This isn't a dummy spit, I'm just saddened that some members on here seem to hellbent on stirring the pot and spoiling it for the majority who I presume want to improve and that improvement will only come through giving and receiving critique and studying images.
 
Feelings, nothing more than feelings..........

Bored now, ultimately this situation will not be overcome until we get rid of the people and their feelings.

Example: Communism is a fantastic concept - except there are those who want to be more equal than others.

Until you can get a generic response to a generic question there is always someone who will get upset.

Everyone wants a slap on the back - don't lie..... and no one wants to be slated. Getting a happy medium when people are involved is nigh on impossible. We have to accept we can not all be a 'famous, technically perfect, please everyone all of the time photographer', and criticism even when dressed up is not what we really want even though we ask.

If an image is put up for critique - take the good or the bad on the chin and decide whether or not to use the suggestions....... if you have no constructive critique, don't bother to comment.......simple as Alexander would say
 
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Hacker said:
I'm just saddened that some members on here seem to hellbent on stirring the pot and spoiling it for the majority who I presume want to improve and that improvement will only come through giving and receiving critique and studying images.
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Which comes back to my point. Sharing images is very very different to a critique section. Share all you want but surely you agree if you want serious critique then you need select images. If you post a set, each with differing flaws, to offer anything of worth is a pain in the rear.
 
ding76uk said:
Which comes back to my point. Sharing images is very very different to a critique section. Share all you want but surely you agree if you want serious critique then you need select images. If you post a set, each with differing flaws, to offer anything of worth is a pain in the rear.
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But that's the whole point. If people want serious critique, they will need to post less images, If people want to share but are happy to received critique if it's offered then they can post more if they wish. Why does there have to be different sections? If you click on a thread and there are too many to offer serious critique, click on another thread.

Photos for Pleasure is perceived by many as the place to post photos where the photographic quality isn't important. If we create separate section(s) for those wishing to share more photos, it will soon be perceived in the same way. There will cease to be the volume of high quality of photos that we have now and the forum will lose out big time.
 
ding76uk said:
Which comes back to my point. Sharing images is very very different to a critique section. Share all you want but surely you agree if you want serious critique then you need select images. If you post a set, each with differing flaws, to offer anything of worth is a pain in the rear.
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how exactly, no it doesn't come back to your invalid point. Read what you quoted

'that improvement will only come through giving and receiving critique'

if you don't want to give or receive crit then don't, but stop going on for those of us that want to learn and improve. This used to be a great forum, but the actions of a minority, including you, have stopped two more great members posting.

Muppet.
 
boyfalldown said:
how exactly, no it doesn't come back to your invalid point. Read what you quoted

'that improvement will only come through giving and receiving critique'

if you don't want to give or receive crit then don't, but stop going on for those of us that want to learn and improve. This used to be a great forum, but the actions of a minority, including you, have stopped two more great members posting.

Muppet.
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Sorry I didn't know we were to bring handbags?

The original post in this thread was about was to improve how critique was not being given.

I gave an alternative option up for discussion, what did you do?

Oh yeah spat your dummy and started getting personal, anyone would have thought I just critiqued your pictures.:bonk:
 
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ding76uk said:
Sorry I didn't know we were to bring handbags?

The original post in this thread was about was to improve how critique was not being given.

I gave an alternative option up for discussion, what did you do?

Ph yeah spat your dummy and started getting personal, anyone would have thought I just critiqued your pictures.:bonk:
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that wasn't personal - or spitting my dummy,Carl. Wasn't an alternative you proposed more a demonstration you didn't read Hackers post. And along with the majority of people who make their living from photography I stopped posting images here a long time ago, I wonder why?
 
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boyfalldown said:
that wasn't personal - or spitting my dummy,Carl. Wasn't an alternative you proposed more a demonstration you didn't read Hackers post. And along with the majority of people who make their living from photography I stopped posting images here a long time ago, I wonder why?
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If you go back and read the thread I made my suggestion before his post. It was an option, one that I hoped would spark debate and come to a conclusion that would solve a problem that was the original point of this thread.
 
ding76uk said:
If you go back and read the thread I made my suggestion before his post. It was an option, one that I hoped would spark debate and come to a conclusion that would solve a problem that was the original point of this thread.
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I did read the original thread, it was a suggestion that was rebuted, and you made it again and again quoting that post again proving you hadn't actually read it.

its funny that the people who seem to never post crit, seem to be the most vocal in what 'should' be done, but seem most happy driving people like Simon and Colin who do post and crit away. As I said muppets.
 
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boyfalldown said:
I did read the original thread, it was a suggestion that was rebuted, and you made it again and again quoting that post again proving you hadn't actually read it.

As I said, its funny that the people who seem to never post crit, seem to be the most vocal in what 'should' be done, but seem most happy driving people like Simon and Colin who do post and crit away.
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Lets just leave it as is then. Seems much easier and avoids upsetting anyone.

I critique images that I am interested in or have something to say on, always have, always will.

Just that weddings and kids do nothing for me, which is obviously what a lot of people choose to shoot.

If you are to post 10 to 20 images a week then a blog style post to accompany them would always be a great resource for people but there never is, just a group of pics, and wedding photographers (no offence to anyone) seem to do this the most often. To me seen one wedding or cute kid, seen them all.
 
ding76uk said:
Lets just leave it as is then. Seems much easier and avoids upsetting anyone.
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thinly veiled bullying and oafish behaviour in this sort of thread upsets people. Your laughable advertising claims for example. not rational discussion :bang:

ding76uk said:
I critique images that I am interested in or have something to say on, always have, always will.
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show one then. Anyone this year will do. Cause there ain't any in your posting history

ding76uk said:
Just that weddings and kids do nothing for me, which is obviously what a lot of people choose to shoot.
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so why comment so much about it. Motorsport for example does nothing for me. Not clicking on those threads is easy

ding76uk said:
If you are to post 10 to 20 images a week then a blog style post to accompany them would always be a great resource for people but there never is, just a group of pics, and wedding photographers (no offence to anyone) seem to do this the most often. To me seen one wedding or cute kid, seen them all.
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a great resource you have no interest in and it may be your perception, but one or two of those sort of images rarely stand. Infact people tried putting one or two in a thread and then linking to their blogs, but were told people liked them in thread. But seeing as yet again, you are commenting on areas you know nothing about that passed you by.
 
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I've just posted two pictures in the Photo's for Pleasure section and I feel guilty now!

By the way Simon, I enjoy looking at your images, I learn a lot from them and anyway, you're a Chesterfield lad so anything you do is ok in my book ;-)
 
 
 
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Come on kids, stop bickering.

We have a critique tag, if people want critique, they use it. that should work, shouldnt it?
 
boyfalldown said:
thinly veiled bullying and oafish behaviour in this sort of thread upsets people. Your laughable advertising claims for example. not rational discussion :bang:
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I just commented that it is possible to make a gain by doing so. No mention of anyone in particular unlike others. I made statement of fact and insinuated toward no one

boyfalldown said:
so why comment so much about it. Motorsport for example does nothing for me. Not clicking on those threads is easy
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Because I shoot and I like things to do with music. All these are put in people and portraits. I find it hard to look through to find much, although admittedly it is nowhere near as popular as kids and stuff.

boyfalldown said:
a great resource you have no interest in and it may be your perception, but one or two of those sort of images rarely stand. Infact people tried putting one or two in a thread and then linking to their blogs, but were told people liked them in thread. But seeing as yet again, you are commenting on areas you know nothing about that passed you by.
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I meant by that statement that a great thing for those posting multiple images could treat it as if they were writing a blog post. Talk about the shoot, gear, any problems, anything that people may want to know about the images. To me I love stuff like this, personal preference it may be, but I feel people learn more this way. Personally I would love to see much more blog like posts, including 10-15 images, but something to help understanding of them who may not b able to read lighting from an image, or know how the narrow Depth of Field was made. Simple shutter/fstop would help on that score.

Edit: **** I just wasted my 2000th post in bickering. My 2001st however will be different.
 
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ding76uk said:
I just commented that it is possible to make a gain by doing so. No mention of anyone in particular unlike others. I made statement of fact and insinuated toward no one
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I think we both know both points of that aren't true. I answered you that you can't get an SEO gain from these forums usually and explained why. You ignored that. The insinuation was fairly obvious following earlier posts in thread

ding76uk said:
Because I shoot and I like things to do with music. All these are put in people and portraits. I find it hard to look through to find much, although admittedly it is nowhere near as popular as kids and stuff.
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its easy to move past the wedding and kids threads though.

I meant by that statement that a great thing for those posting multiple images could treat it as if they were writing a blog post. Talk about the shoot, gear, any problems, anything that people may want to know about the images. To me I love stuff like this, personal preference it may be, but I feel people learn more this way. Personally I would love to see much more blog like posts, including 10-15 images, but something to help understanding of them who may not b able to read lighting from an image, or know how the narrow Depth of Field was made. Simple shutter/fstop would help on that score.
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you missed what I meant. The # of images came up recently. And people prefered alot in thread rather then a link out to a home page. I agree some more info about each shot would be great, but the EXIF (normally) is intact however comments about each shot would be good.


ding76uk said:
Edit: **** I just wasted my 2000th post in bickering. My 2001st however will be different.
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you could get classified access. No wait thats another thread :thinking:
 
Don't mean to be stirring a hornets nest up again, but as this thread is here........

Personally i would quite like to see thread views back. I understand why it was removed, so not to offend those who are overly sensitive.

But i would find it useful to see if i'm not getting crit because people just don't want to, or if my thread title isn't interesting enough to get people to view my threads in the first place.
 
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