People and portraits feedback. :(

[feriso]

Fly,

I hear and agree with what you are saying, I'm a relative newbie and I do a lot of browsing and not much commenting as I feel my standard and own ability can make me look a hypocrite; saying that I do comment on some threads where I have actually done similar things.

I agree on maybe having a harsh critique section as I think that is what is missing and is necessary as a few pics I've had up have just had nice comments; except one where someone really gave me a what for critique (constructive) and I recut some shots and improved from it with no offence taken ( maybe that's the problem too scared of having to be nice or snapped back at)

 

[POAH]

ask specific questions

I don't know the solution to this - but surely something can be done to encourage feedback?

Thoughts?

 

[joxby]

ask specific questions

But I just clicked and it came out nice, I'm really only posting to find out if any one else thinks its nice, how can I be specific about the critique I require when I only spent 8 nano seconds being specific about the shot I wanted to capture ?

 

[Matt]

its an age old problem. if posters dont spit dummies when given crit, then that would help, and if members remember that its subjective, so every opinion counts, it would work better too.

 

[SpikeK6]

I think after reading all of this again it is quite simple.
Looking at what people call a snap shot then if you donot want to comment then you do not have too.
If you see a shot where you think "mmm yes this person has tried his best but......." then you can comment, but make it constructive as to how the person could have improved the shot, not just slate it or tell them its rubbish, tell us why, and how too, that is why we all joined this forum to get better.

I read the thread of cobra_lite on how to do better with a golf shoot he had been asked to do, and from the responses I think it worked out well, I could not comment on it as I did not have a clue as to what he was talking about with the flash set ups, but what I did notice was, not one person turned round and said Google some golf shots or look at magazines to get some ideas which would have been rude and out of order, instead they where well constructed answers which I think helped him.

This is what the site should be about, also if people realised that when posting in the proper sections they should take it on the chin about what gets said, and learne from it, if they just want to post a pic put it in the general sharing section,where no crit is necessary.

spike

 

[Jelster]

If it is a **** photo what is the point in sugar coating? I have been told work I thought my best was not worth bothering with. I love when people are brave enough to call a spade a spade.

I hate the sugar coating and hence why I don't post much in crit sections. If you are posting for crit, take everything you can get.

Also there are so many snap shots that I find it hard to wade through it all to find something to crit properly. I think it is more a case of too many people posting snapshots of grandchildren or children and weddings, all of which I have zero interest in. i do try to comment on Band portraits, live music etc. as it is what I do, and have something more to offer, or action sports.

Also nothing worse than those who post for crit, you give it and nothing, the post has no reply from the OP and you wonder why you bothered.

You don't have to sugar coat it, just be polite, and GIVE ADVICE as to how you think it could have been improved. That could even be "In that situation it wasn't worth taking the shot etc....". Just don't say it's poor without saying why and what you feel could have been done better. Otherwise you're comment is pointless.

Steve

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[huffy]

its an age old problem. if posters dont spit dummies when given crit, then that would help, and if members remember that its subjective, so every opinion counts, it would work better too.

Very true, I posted an opinion on an image and several people followed on and disagreed with my opinion which is fair enough but to see a posting - "huffy" is wrong - does not encourage me to carry on.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=309209

Best wishes, Mark

 

[Lensflare]

But I just clicked and it came out nice, I'm really only posting to find out if any one else thinks its nice, how can I be specific about the critique I require when I only spent 8 nano seconds being specific about the shot I wanted to capture ?

There is half the problem.

GOOD pictures are MADE. Snapshots are taken.

When people realise the difference between photography and snapshots is merely the thought that goes into it, then we will start to see some progress on the critique front. They will then also start to realise why the old saying of "it is always the photographer and never the camera" is so true.

Yes, a better quality camera will provide better quality OF RECORDING, but the CONTENT is what the photographer produces, regardless of what he has in his hands.

There is also much talk of the difference between a professional and an amatuer. Yes, the quality of a professional should be up to the mark, but remember too, a professional has to make do with what they are told to take (as in given a job to go and cover). Amateurs can choose the pictures THEY WANT TO MAKE.

The advantage the amateur has is TIME and CHOICE. I have a job tomorro wmornign - it is a dirty truck with huge sheet of metal on it, coming out of a sheet of metal making mill. Wow, inspiring stuff. I will still stand or fall on how good a job I make of it. An amateur can take one look and think "I won't waste any film on that then." And go off and find something more interesting/colourful/impactful, while I continue to make a big sheet of grey metal on the back of a truck look interesting.

On the critique front. I think some people need to grow broader shoulders and thicker skin. It is a common, modern malaise, not being able to take a jibe or dig. Good old fashioned banter that pokes a bit of fun in a certain direction is now not allowed - it has made our lives much duller. Look at the laughter that humour from the 70 and 80s brought - poking fun at certain areas of society, but it was done IN FUN. That apparently, is too mcuh for th emodern generation. You must be able to lose a race, you must have fun poked at you: 4-eyes, fatty, ginger, shrimp.....all perfectly good adjectives that people are trying to hide. It is turning society into a population of WIMPS.

Just live with it, whatever it is that is said. I had my rather limited abilities and my parentage called into question in one sentence on many a time. It just hardened my resolve to get it right. Nowadays you are supposed to go and complain to the HR manager for personla attacks. h, for Pete's sake, GROW UP and learn to take it on the chin.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me.

 

[Tori]

I too, have posted, not critique as such, as I don't feel I'm good enough for that, just an opinion...and got jumped on. I felt a bit better when others agreed with me, but I only comment on friends pics now, or things I either have knowledge of or really like so I can say something simple.

 

[pmac]

i also feel having only bought my first dslr over a year ago,that im still learning to much and dont know enough to give helpful crit.
if i check a picture i may post regarding what i like or diss like in it but thats as much as i feel i can do.
i dont know enough about what make a perfect picture.

i do see that alot of users take the huff and spitt the dummy when given crit they dont like though.

then on the other had i posted last week asking were the problem were with my picture,all i got was people saying they liked them,even when i posted again asking not to be give good feed back but bad to try and help me improve my photography and PP i got more thats great replys

i dont have all this time to read though books,and study how people beleave photos should be taken to make them good.i have a day job and kids,photography is a hobbie for me but one i would like to improve on.
i see this place as a way of helping me improve,be it from other learners or pros giving me good or bad feed back i dont care if it helps.

 

[Harvey_nikon]

It's simple, if you post in any of the Photo Critique and Sharing be prepared for getting Crit of any type. If you don't want crit then post it in the 'Photos for Pleasure' section.

How about adding a 'karma' system to the forums, if someone posts something useful you click 'like' next to their names. Even if its negative or positive crit, as long as its not down right rude.

At the end of the day, you could search for the last time this topic was discussed as we really are just going over old ground. We couldn't come up with a solution then either.

 

[flossie]

It's simple, if you post in any of the Photo Critique and Sharing be prepared for getting Crit of any type. If you don't want crit then post it in the 'Photos for Pleasure' section.

Good idea.

Maybe there should be some kind of Flag on people's account - like the Classified access but something that Moderators can toggle on/off - so if they throw their dummy out of the pram, or post inappropriate amounts of pictures, they can only post in "Photos for Pleasure" (maybe for 30 days or something).

I know its yet more work for the moderators, but it would very quickly become self-regulating once people realise there are standards they have to live up to if they post in the Critique forums. Starting with Politeness, Moderation, and Receptiveness... then worrying about Composition, Exposure, and Theme ;P

How about adding a 'karma' system to the forums, if someone posts something useful you click 'like' next to their names. Even if its negative or positive crit, as long as its not down right rude.

That wouldn't work, just becomes a huge circle-jerk of "nice shot!" people just going "nice shot!" at each other...

 

[cobra_lite]

... I have a job tomorrow mornign - it is a dirty truck with huge sheet of metal on it, coming out of a sheet of metal making mill. Wow, inspiring stuff. I will still stand or fall on how good a job I make of it. An amateur can take one look and think "I won't waste any film on that then." And go off and find something more interesting/colourful/impactful, while I continue to make a big sheet of grey metal on the back of a truck look interesting...

I feel your pain - try refurbished steel blast furnaces which need to be photographed then cut out and placed on a white background...

Exciting...? Nope...:thumbsdown:

Cash in the bank...? Yep...


As to accusations of arrogance - I often find the line between arrogance and self-confidence is pretty thin.

If I say "my photos are great" - and they are - then that's self-confidence.
If I say "my photos are great" - and they are - but follow it up with "and they're better than yours" - that's arrogance.

If I say "my photos are great" - and they're not - then I'm just deluded...lol

Since I'm not claiming to be better than anyone here (and in fact a damn sight worse in some genres from what I've seen), how can I be arrogant?

Telling someone they need to do better isn't being arrogant. Pointing out a basic error isn't being arrogant.

Telling someone to read your post properly isn't being arrogant. Kev.

 

[Andy_S_T]

GOOD pictures are MADE. Snapshots are taken.

I really can't agree with that. Some of the most memorable pictures are 'snapshots', and sometimes alot of thought has gone into them. Looking at the natural light and waiting for all the elements to combine into the image you've seen. You've not made it, it's still a 'snapshot' but it's one that's been thought about and planned.

I think people have to remember that it's a people and portraits section, not a studio/photoshoot section. Therefore there will always be candid 'snapshots' posted, as people like taking pictures of people. While I can and will do the more setup side of things, I am much happier with the natural 'candid' side, it's just my personal preference as I like photojournalistic (Yes another on that bandwagon, but I can't help it, it's what I like) style.

I am going to try and offer more comments though, as we can only all improve if we keep helping each other.

 

[tiler65]

I think to sort out problems with C&C is that if the OP described what they were trying to achieve when taking the shot, I think you will get a better informed reply.

Certainly a more honest one.

 

[ding76uk]

i dont have all this time to read though books,and study how people beleave photos should be taken to make them good.i have a day job and kids,photography is a hobbie for me but one i would like to improve on.

Yet you can spend time on here? Sorry that just seems like an excuse not to look in depth more yourself. This is an issue I think that is part of this whole problem.

You need to look more in depth into things yourself. Coming on here is no quick fix. Find 5 mins to read something a day. You will get more out of it doing independent learning rather than coming on here, posting a picture and hoping people will tell you how to get it perfect for them (not specifically aimed at you, but a recent thread about music photography was a joke to the point of what setting, what mode, what shutter speed, what everything wanting to shoot larger bands)

You can get help a little from crit, but nothing is a substitute for learning on your own. There is no way to shortcut it, if you want to know things, you have to learn them, posting a pic for crit is not the way.

 

[John Young]

I think the whole feedback thing is great as long as its constructive and it doesn't need to be hurtful. Yeah be honest and not say everything is wonderful when its not but say it so as not to hurt people.

As for the lack of feedback I sometimes think it depends on who's thread it is. I have seen people post and have LOADS of feedback all the time while others are ignored. It almost seems like those popular people in high schools in American movies.

 

[Lensflare]

I really can't agree with that. Some of the most memorable pictures are 'snapshots', and sometimes alot of thought has gone into them. Looking at the natural light and waiting for all the elements to combine into the image you've seen. You've not made it, it's still a 'snapshot' but it's one that's been thought about and planned.

I think people have to remember that it's a people and portraits section, not a studio/photoshoot section. Therefore there will always be candid 'snapshots' posted, as people like taking pictures of people. While I can and will do the more setup side of things, I am much happier with the natural 'candid' side, it's just my personal preference as I like photojournalistic (Yes another on that bandwagon, but I can't help it, it's what I like) style.

I am going to try and offer more comments though, as we can only all improve if we keep helping each other.

That is exactly why it has been MADE. The photographer SAW the elements and combined them...recognised the splash of light that was going to hit the subject through the break in the clouds and reacted to it, or even positioned the person in a certain place/angle to make best use of the light...therefore it was MADE.

A snapshot is simplly turning round and firing from the hip without thought.

It is the thought process that distinguishes the two. It might be a monor thing, but even in restricted situations you can still look at how the elements will combine to create the finished result. You use what is available to your best advantage to MAKE (create, if you like) the image. Taking it how it is - that is a snapshot.

Even in a set situation that you cannot change, there are choices to be made that will affect the outcome. Lens length, angle of attack, stand up and take it, or lie down, stand on a chair maybe. Underexpose to only reveal the highlights? pop some flash in, from the hotshoe? NO - on a cord held out at arms length to your side...these are all parts of the thought process that distinguishes the snapshot, the take it as it is brigade and hope something comes out of it...from the photographer who thinks the thing through, even if only for a second, and changes the game to suit themselves and the picture they have in their minds eye for the result.

So, no, even candid pictures can be MADE.

 

[DigitalRelish]

As for the lack of feedback I sometimes think it depends on who's thread it is. I have seen people post and have LOADS of feedback all the time while others are ignored. It almost seems like those popular people in high schools in American movies.

Let's put that to bed right away. Personally speaking, I don't only feedback on specific people's posts and I have no preference when choosing between one member or another. If I feel I can offer some value in the time I have available then I will. I'm not saying this is the same for everyone, but perhaps you could consider there are other factors influencing how much feedback someone gets.

For example, when I spent a couple of hours on the People and Portraits forum last night there were some threads which made it easier for me to offer feedback on and some which just caused me to hit the back button on my browser.

Just to illustrate what I'm talking about (please note I'm not trying to pick on anyone I just feel examples would help understanding), here is a thread posted in a critique forum, but not actually asking for any specific advice. Not asking anything, in fact. Okay, it should be safe to assume that the original poster (OP) is wanting critique, but on what specifically? In my opinion, there are a number of areas for improvement, but it would take me all day to go through them and I've no idea where the OP is coming from experience wise. As you can see, it hasn't attracted much in the way of a response from others.

On the other hand, a thread such as this is much easier to offer feedback on because it provides much more information about what the OP did and what they were trying to achieve. It attracts more of a response as a result.

If you look at the profiles of the two OP's in question, you could argue that the more 'popular' OP got the most feedback therefore the amount of feedback is directly proportional to the number of posts or time the OP has been a member, but you'd be ignoring other, more significant factors as I've described above.

[edit]
I'm going to throw in one more example thread where we have what some could call a 'popular' member getting lots of feedback. Again, I'm not trying to be derogatory towards said member, just using the thread as an example which I've just quickly found. This one. The OP is a pro and without doubt a skilled photographer, but in my mind gets very little value in terms of critique from that thread i.e. feedback which is going to improve the OP's photography.
[/edit]

 

[cobra_lite]

I'm going to throw in one more example thread where we have what some could call a 'popular' member getting lots of feedback. Again, I'm not trying to be derogatory towards said member, just using the thread as an example which I've just quickly found. This one. The OP is a pro and without doubt a skilled photographer, but in my mind gets very little value in terms of critique from that thread i.e. feedback which is going to improve the OP's photography.

I think some people are genuinely after crit to help them improve whilst others are simply using the forum to advertise their wares.
Why else would the same few people be posting 10 or 20+ images from every wedding they shoot, week-in, week out?
Sorry, seen one wedding seen them all - these guys are pros so they should be able to do the job - if I want to see more of their work I'll visit the website.
I looked for more image-heavy posts by the chap you've singled out and what a surprise...there they were going back...and back...and back...
Nice but so what?

Smacks a little of 'look at me, aren't I clever?'

 

[awp]

Smacks a little of 'look at me, aren't I clever?'

a lot of people asking for 'crit' fall into that category.

Sent from my iPhone using TP Forums

 

[boyfalldown]

a lot of people asking for 'crit' fall into that category.

Sent from my iPhone using TP Forums

Although knowing that particular member I know he is posting for crit and would welcome it

Its starting to read a little like if it's bad don't post and if it's very good don't post.not great for a forum

Of course you can also learn from good images as well and I hate to say if you don't like weddings or babies or whatever don't look at those threads

 

[DigitalRelish]

Could we please not turn the thread into a discussion about the individuals? I only wanted to refer to their threads as (almost randomly chosen) examples for the purposes of talking about the level of critique each thread received.

 

[cookiemk]

I'm not trying to be provocative. I'm trying to understand what,as a newbie, I'm supposed to do. Criticised if I don't post, as a parasitical none contributor. Or a score whore trying to get access to classieds if I do.

Just saying "This is terrible" makes him look nasty and puts off the OP.

I agree with the above, surely people realise there are newbies on here like me who would like advice in a positive manner, luckily enough there seems to be more "helpful" people than ones who seem to think because they are proffesionals they can just dismiss others because they do not have as much technical skills/knowledge as them. (some newbies have more people skills though)

i doubt very much that the professionals merely picked up a camera and shot the greatest picture of their life in their first go?

when i joined this forum i was never told dont join if your not a professional, dont expect any help, only post when you have practiced for years, been to college, got a degree.

at first i put negative comments as oh maybe they are having a bad day/not in very good mood but the more i read some peoples comments the more i think my opinions were wrong.

while no-1 likes it if you say a picture they might be proud of in your opinion isnt very good it would be helpful if you could try and give some positives on how you it could be improved.



sorry for my ramble i'll go sit in the newbie corner now

 

[boyfalldown]

I don't think there is any professional/others divide in there - but it is frustrating when you post crit and either get a dummy spit or ignored in return. You do end uo thinking why bother

There isn't a newbie corner over here, so you can't sit in it :razz:

 

[cookiemk]

it feels like it some times, if a professional just posts something that isnt a crit and is basically just looking down their nose as if why do you bother posting sort of thing then why would the op have anything to reply with?

i'm sure there is a newbie corner i think its behind the pink giraffe next to the purple monkey rock.

 

[boyfalldown]

it feels like it some times, if a professional just posts something that isnt a crit and is basically just looking down their nose as if why do you bother posting sort of thing then why would the op have anything to reply with?

it also feels alot like if you take the time posting constructive helpful crit you just get a dummy spit back or nothing back, why bother? Swings and roundabouts I guess

i'm sure there is a newbie corner i think its behind the pink giraffe next to the purple monkey rock.

wave when you get there

 

[SpikeK6]

wave when you get there

I found it, it wass in the classified section :nuts::razz:

spike

Oooh was that a bit harsh???

 

[cookiemk]

you know i cant look in there till i'm in the 100 club

my point was that half the time they arent crits if they then i'd agree its wrong if the op spat the dummy

 

[cyclamens]

I found it, it wass in the classified section :nuts::razz:

spike

Oooh was that a bit harsh???

Thats not nice - just because I can't access it yet


Back to the point of the thread - you can not please all of the people all of the time... to paraphrase.

No one likes to be told their work is poor, we all like to be told we're great, some try to be honest others don't care.
The object of all this is to take better photographs - the problem is I don't like your shots.

There are always going to be arguments in my opinion - if you don't want my opinion don't ask for it........ in the nicest possible way

It's the fault of all this subjectivity

 

[Harvey_nikon]

No one likes to be told their work is poor, we all like to be told we're great, some try to be honest others don't care.
The object of all this is to take better photographs - the problem is I don't like your shots.

There are always going to be arguments in my opinion - if you don't want my opinion don't ask for it........ in the nicest possible way

It's the fault of all this subjectivity

If something about my photo is crap I like being told so I don't repeat the problem.

However, it again comes back to the age old issue of bluntness.

I try and treat people how I would want my (future) kids to be treated by a teacher, with respect. Just telling someone something is crap and they would be best doing something else is fine if you know the person can take it, but we know many can't.

It only takes an extra few seconds to write something politely after all

 

[flossie]

I try and treat people how I would want my (future) kids to be treated by a teacher, with respect. Just telling someone something is crap and they would be best doing something else is fine if you know the person can take it, but we know many can't.

Not just when it comes to being told their pictures are crap...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12938578

The UK's schoolchildren find it difficult to lose graciously in sport, and their parents can be just as bad, a survey has suggested.
Two-thirds of parents of eight to 16-year-olds said their children reacted badly when they lost, the poll found.
A further two-thirds of respondents said parents behaved badly when watching children's matches.

Anyway, as various posters have illustrated since I said it earlier - posting for photos for crit needs to become something that can be withdrawn if it is abused (e.g. the example of someone posting 20 wedding photos a week as thinly-disguised advertising...) or if they can't actually take their crit.


I know than whenever someone has commented (elsewhere) in detail on flaws in my photographs, they have been absolutly right. Whether is the tiny bit that was cropped-off, or the irritating bit of background clutter, or the dull sky, or (etc etc) - every time I have gone "you know, you're right, I didn't see that", and have learnt from it!


But maybe its because my job is creative and involves constant self-criticism of details whilst never stopping to learn from others work - it makes me more open to other people's views than most people are...

 

[cyclamens]

If something about my photo is crap I like being told so I don't repeat the problem.

However, it again comes back to the age old issue of bluntness.

I try and treat people how I would want my (future) kids to be treated by a teacher, with respect. Just telling someone something is crap and they would be best doing something else is fine if you know the person can take it, but we know many can't.

It only takes an extra few seconds to write something politely after all

You are right Harvey Nicks and I agree with you. I would never actually tell someone their shot is crap but would try to be as constructive as possible in my observations - if they asked my opinion.

Blunt is not what people want but some of us are more diplomatic than others. I can, however, understand others frustrations.

This is deeper than just C&C on photographs - it's about the human psyche (sure I've mis-spelt that) which is beyond me.

My kids are extremely well mannered - which knowing their father makes that a miracle

 

[ding76uk]

Just telling someone something is crap and they would be best doing something else is fine if you know the person can take it, but we know many can't.

Sorry but then they do not need to put their work in for critique and should put it in photos for pleasure instead.

If you put something out there you need to be willing to take what you get. People need to be able to take criticism. What people need to remember is just because it is blunt does not mean it is personal!

 

[boyfalldown]

Anyway, as various posters have illustrated since I said it earlier - posting for photos for crit needs to become something that can be withdrawn if it is abused (e.g. the example of someone posting 20 wedding photos a week as thinly-disguised advertising...) or if they can't actually take their crit.

would love to know how you get to that conclusion - someone takes no interest, or their images are poor then they shouldn't post then its spamming, someone takes an active role in the forum but is a good photographer then they shouldn't post either :shrug: jeez make your mind up but in either case it wouldn't be a forum for long, & I'm prepared to bet if Matty et al. thought there was thinly disguised advertising going on they'd jump on in pretty quick

 

[DigitalRelish]

Anyway, as various posters have illustrated since I said it earlier - posting for photos for crit needs to become something that can be withdrawn if it is abused (e.g. the example of someone posting 20 wedding photos a week as thinly-disguised advertising...) or if they can't actually take their crit.

Please don't use one of my examples to accuse another member of advertising. If you think this is the case then you should take it up with the mods. Maybe, you could take it up with this mod who also posted a bunch of wedding photos this week.

 

[pmac]

Yet you can spend time on here? Sorry that just seems like an excuse not to look in depth more yourself. This is an issue I think that is part of this whole problem.

You need to look more in depth into things yourself. Coming on here is no quick fix. Find 5 mins to read something a day. You will get more out of it doing independent learning rather than coming on here, posting a picture and hoping people will tell you how to get it perfect for them (not specifically aimed at you, but a recent thread about music photography was a joke to the point of what setting, what mode, what shutter speed, what everything wanting to shoot larger bands)

You can get help a little from crit, but nothing is a substitute for learning on your own. There is no way to shortcut it, if you want to know things, you have to learn them, posting a pic for crit is not the way.

i under stand what your saying and i maby didnt thrase it in the write manner but gramer isnt my strong suit.

i read as much information in books and online as i spend on here.

i do look at my picture and try to see whats wrong,but as i said i dont beleave i know enough to catch problem others might see,be it because i dont know or because i may like the picture even if it has faults.
i post hoping that someone will let me know what these are,like many users.

i have and do learn more from being out using my camera,rather than reading about what i should or shouldnt be doing.
if i want good feed back all the time i post these pictures on flickr as thats all just praise on there, i post here as i hope i wont just get thats nice type replys.

 

[Harvey_nikon]

Sorry but then they do not need to put their work in for critique and should put it in photos for pleasure instead.

If you put something out there you need to be willing to take what you get. People need to be able to take criticism. What people need to remember is just because it is blunt does not mean it is personal!

But you are missing the whole point of C&C, by your rules, only great photos would be posted that didn't need any

Just because we can look at something and say its crap due to our own experiences, a new photographer might be very proud of their crap, in which case, we should educate them POLITELY on how best it improve.

After all, its commonly said, if you have nothing nice to say, keep quiet

If we stop new photographers from posting what we consider crap, they won't C&C either and the forum will just end up those that everyone considers pro kissing each others asses, well those pros that do actually bother posting help for others because there are one or two that comes here to get their ego's stroked!


On the whole, I really don't see what the issue is:

If you don't like crap photos don't comment on them.

If you can't comment on a photo politely, don't comment.

If you don't want to waste your time helping others don't post.

Personally, I'll continue to post as and when I can and as helpfully as possible.

Every has their own rules, just carry on and end a conversation that appears every 3 months, goes over the same old ground and NEVER comes to a conclusion

 

[flossie]

would love to know how you get to that conclusion - someone takes no interest, or their images are poor then they shouldn't post then its spamming, someone takes an active role in the forum but is a good photographer then they shouldn't post either :shrug: jeez make your mind up but in either case it wouldn't be a forum for long, & I'm prepared to bet if Matty et al. thought there was thinly disguised advertising going on they'd jump on in pretty quick

Eh? I didn't say that at all!

I said that if people can't take Criticism then they shouldn't post them.

I also said that people shouldn't post vast amounts of pictures.

The two concepts are not contradictory. In fact, they are complimentary - post less makes you think more.

 

[flossie]

Please don't use one of my examples to accuse another member of advertising. If you think this is the case then you should take it up with the mods. Maybe, you could take it up with this mod who also posted a bunch of wedding photos this week.

Well it may not be your view, but if I saw someone posting that volume of pictures that regularly then it would be mine I'm afraid - whether it was on this forum, on facebook, flickr, or wherever... and if you didn't have some concerns yourself, why did you even mention it

As I have no interest whatsoever in weddings or wedding photography it doesn't really bother me, but it is a highly commercial field and people will do whatever they can to advertise and get onto people's radar - I wouldn't be at all surprised if there aren't a number of bride-to-be's who go shopping for photographers by at whatever's on the first page of that particular forum...