"Panasonic G series" Owners Thread

[Janice]

Yes Janice I know what mirror lockup is and what it is for!! I just did not think it would be a problem in today's modern DSLR and was there just for purists.

And what do you think they have done to stop mirror-slap in the big heavy DSLR's then?
It's not for purists, it's to make sure that when your camera is on a tripod with a slow shutter and a remote.... Just one more way of making sure you get a nice sharp landscape shot. No point not using everything available!!

But as Geof said... Nice to be able to go to lower speeds without that happening.

 

[Janice]

Plus there's the noise. My 20D (now sold) used to sound like someone throwing an anvil into a tin bath, my 5D is a little better but still too vocal. cameras should be seen and not heard.

A bit like children, but at least you can lock your mirrors up......it's illegal to lock children up!!! .

 

[Galaxy66]

Interesting test here with a 7D that proves mirror lockup is in fact worthwhile despite me thinking it would not be a problem in today's Modern DSLR.

I would have thought they would have overcome that problem with better damping.

Janice, it is not unknown for a manufacturer to have a feature that is not really needed, for instance they could have improved the damping in a DSLR enough to eliminate the feature but would retain the feature in case it affected sales, obviously no significant improvements have been made in that area.

However, this test is of the opinion that for it to be worthwhile the camera should be mounted on a tripod.

 

[Janice]

However, this test is of the opinion that for it to be worthwhile the camera should be mounted on a tripod.

Yes, that is so as I mentioned above. You have to have everything as stable as possible, or you will get wobble from one of the sources.
Like a chain.....it's only as good as its weakest link!!

Nothing like being let down by a wobbly hand!!!

 

[Galaxy66]

Yes, that is so as I mentioned above. You have to have everything as stable as possible, or you will get wobble from one of the sources.
Like a chain.....it's only as good as its weakest link!!

Nothing like being let down by a wobbly hand!!!

You are missing my point Janice, Geof says his hand held shots are better with a mirror less body.

[not having the mirror vibrations has improved my hand held shots a lot
cheers
geof ]

 

[mrtoad]

Yes Janice I know what mirror lockup is and what it is for!! I just did not think it would be a problem in today's modern DSLR and was there just for purists.

:razz:..

how dare you...its the finest piece of design for tripod shots at low speeds...
mirror up...2 seconds timer...all is quiet internally and on the tripod legs...click
job done
there is a youtube about the trajectory of a mirror as it goes up and down and up and down less and less till the shutter curtains are then opened
hence the shutter lag requirement

i only used it for the tripod shots mentioned above...

now i have the illustrious G1 or rather have been welcomed into the micro 4/3 fraternity it no longer becomes one of the vibration issues...
cheers
geof

 

[mrtoad]

You are missing my point Janice, Geof says his hand held shots are better with a mirror less body.

[not having the mirror vibrations has improved my hand held shots a lot
cheers
geof ]

well not better in all cases but certainly i can get less vibration without the mirror
one has also to be careful of camera shake and rotation even when holding the camera against a wall or such when the tripod or suitable other restraint isnt available
recently i used the notice posts in cathedrals as a make shift mono pod
cheers
geof

 

[Galaxy66]

:razz:..

how dare you...its the finest piece of design for tripod shots at low speeds...
mirror up...2 seconds timer...all is quiet internally and on the tripod legs...click
job done
there is a youtube about the trajectory of a mirror as it goes up and down and up and down less and less till the shutter curtains are then opened
hence the shutter lag requirement

i only used it for the tripod shots mentioned above...

now i have the illustrious G1 or rather have been welcomed into the micro 4/3 fraternity it no longer becomes one of the vibration issues...
cheers
geof

Read my post 4043

 

[mrtoad]

Must be a lot to do with the size and shape of our hands and how we handle our camera differently Geof as I have never had that problem with my G1.

are you 70?

 

[mrtoad]

Read my post 4043

i just did as i scrolled incorrectly backwards..sorry

glad to be in a discussion as well thanks to you and janice
cheers
geof

 

[mrtoad]

Interesting test here with a 7D that proves mirror lockup is in fact worthwhile despite me thinking it would not be a problem in today's Modern DSLR.

I would have thought they would have overcome that problem with better damping.

Janice, it is not unknown for a manufacturer to have a feature that is not really needed, for instance they could have improved the damping in a DSLR enough to eliminate the feature but would retain the feature in case it affected sales, obviously no significant improvements have been made in that area.

However, this test is of the opinion that for it to be worthwhile the camera should be mounted on a tripod.

 

[Galaxy66]

are you 70?

Not far off in fact

 

[Janice]

You are missing my point Janice, Geof says his hand held shots are better with a mirror less body.

[not having the mirror vibrations has improved my hand held shots a lot
cheers
geof ]

I thought you said that they said in the article that to make mirror lockup worthwhile it needs a tripod.

Which I agreed with. Which is exactly why Geof is fine for handheld as he doesn't have a mirror to have to lock up.



TOOO confusing!!, I'm off to do some rocket science and leave you youngsters to it!! Although Mal has quite a way to go to catch you, !

 

[mrtoad]

I thought you said that they said in the article that to make mirror lockup worthwhile it needs a tripod.

Which I agreed with. Which is exactly why Geof is fine for handheld as he doesn't have a mirror to have to lock up.



TOOO confusing!!, I'm off to do some rocket science and leave you youngsters to it!! Although Mal has quite a way to go to catch you, !

me too ..i am off to boil an egg..
cheers
geof

mirror mirror in the body
good by to you and i feel jolly...nearly

 

[Galaxy66]

I thought you said that they said in the article that to make mirror lockup worthwhile it needs a tripod.

Which I agreed with. Which is exactly why Geof is fine for handheld as he doesn't have a mirror to have to lock up.

TOOO confusing!!,

Noooo you have the wrong end of the stick the point is not whether or not he actually physically has mirror lockup!

To benefit from mirror lockup (the same as having a mirrorless camera = no vibrations) you need it attached to a tripod..yes? hence why I quoted what they said in their conclusion so with no mirror in the M43 system to lock up and cause vibrations how can there be a benefit hand held?.

 

[Janice]

Noooo you have the wrong end of the stick the point is not whether or not he actually physically has mirror lockup!

To benefit from mirror lockup (the same as having a mirrorless camera = no vibrations) you need it attached to a tripod..yes? hence why I quoted what they said in their conclusion so with no mirror in the M43 system to lock up and cause vibrations how can there be a benefit hand held?.

Geof was not comparing using a DSLR WITH its mirror locked up..........he was comparing

not having the mirror vibrations has improved my hand held shots a lot
cheers
geof

a previous DSLR with NO lock up used..to the nice easy way of the M43, where he is now able to get stable shots handheld with no mirror slap like he was getting with the dslr handheld without its MLU on!

 

[Galaxy66]

Geof was not comparing using a DSLR WITH its mirror locked up..........he was comparing

a previous DSLR with NO lock up used..to the nice easy way of the M43, where he is now able to get stable shots handheld with no mirror slap like he was getting with the dslr handheld without its MLU on!

I will simply repeat what I said before.

To benefit from mirror lockup (the same as having a mirror less camera = no vibrations) you need it attached to a tripod..yes? hence why I quoted what they said in their conclusion so with no mirror in the M43 system to lock up and cause vibrations how can there be a benefit hand held?.

You can have the last word

 

[woof woof]

Can you use mirror lock up without a tripod? I shouldn't have thought so... you wont know what the camera is pointed at

I agree with Geoff, I'm not exactly happy to shoot at 1/20 sec and slower but I will at least hold out some real hope of getting an acceptable shot when using MFT. With my DSLR's I'd want to be using at least 1x focal length for faint hope and I'd be much happier at x1.5 - x2.

 

[Janice]

I will simply repeat what I said before.

To benefit from mirror lockup (the same as having a mirror less camera = no vibrations) you need it attached to a tripod..yes? hence why I quoted what they said in their conclusion so with no mirror in the M43 system to lock up and cause vibrations how can there be a benefit hand held?.

You can have the last word

He was not using MLU with a tripod before with his DSLR....so the camera wobbled when the mirror slapped!!
With the Panny he finds it more stable handheld as there is no mirror to slap!!! . Lol


You are implying a benefit between Panny tripod and Panny handheld.

Geof didn't say this.... He means the benefit between DSLR handheld ( no MLU) And Panny handheld!!

 

[woof woof]

DSLR's have a kick like a shotgun compared to MFT.

 

[Janice]

Poor Geof wishes he hadn't said anything now!! Lol

That's my lot!

 

[joelk2]

Wow. That was quite a debate. Loving my gf3. Let the wife borrow it on the weekend and she loved it. Bonus.

 

[Galaxy66]

Poor Geof wishes he hadn't said anything now!! Lol

That's my lot!

Not mine...

Janice, my dear friend....for the time being I said I would not reply but here goes for another attempt in a different way......

I understand exactly what Geof is saying of his own findings.

I was not implying a comparison between Pany hand held and tripod held I am simply reflecting on the conclusion of that test in the link and also of the general opinion that there is no advantage utilising mirror lockup when hand held in a normal DSLR so similarly it should give no advantage to a mirror less M43 system.

 

[Mandoo]

Wow. That was quite a debate. Loving my gf3. Let the wife borrow it on the weekend and she loved it. Bonus.

That's good, it means she'll forgive you sooner for buying another camera!
Once you get a few lovely pictures of the nipper, she'll forget about it completely leaving you free to spend more money on lenses! Lol

I'm very tempted by it myself, but really should be spending my money on more important things like getting my car sorted.

 

[woof woof]

I was not implying a comparison between Pany hand held and tripod held I am simply reflecting on the conclusion of that test in the link and also of the general opinion that there is no advantage utilising mirror lockup when hand held in a normal DSLR so similarly it should give no advantage to a mirror less M43 system.

Sorry to interupt

I don't see how you can use mirror lock up hand held, unless you're using live view, but then the mirror would be up anyway, wouldn't it?

Assuming that you are not using mirror lock up I think you can hand hold MFT at lower speeds than you can with a DSLR as with a DSLR (if you are not using mirror lock up) you get mirror slap. That's my experience anyway

 

[Markp777]

Away in North Norfolk for a few days. Whilst the weather hasn't been brilliant (unlike last week!) have still managed to get out and about with my G2 and 20mm/45-200mm. Here are a few

 

[Janice]

Assuming that you are not using mirror lock up I think you can hand hold MFT at lower speeds than you can with a DSLR as with a DSLR (if you are not using mirror lock up) you get mirror slap. That's my experience anyway

EXACTLY!!!!! Yesssss!!!! Well put! If only i had found those words! So Geof is finding it a benefit by using MTF!

 

[Janice]

Away in North Norfolk for a few days. Whilst the weather hasn't been brilliant (unlike last week!) have still managed to get out and about with my G2 and 20mm/45-200mm. Here are a few

Some absolute beauties there, Mark.
People go on and on about upgrading bodies and needing this lens and that lens.
Superb pictures can be had if you have 'the eye'.
If you don't, you can spend a million pounds and you won't do any better!

 

[Markp777]

Thanks Janice. I've been tempted to upgrade to G3 several times but just have to remind myself that I love my G2 and the pictures it takes so why change it!

 

[sound_system]

What's the craic with telephoto lenses for a gx1? Are any of them any good? They all look a bit soft to me.

 

[Tiger Feet]

The Pano 100-300 is great imo.

The shots below are heavily cropped and where taken handheld with my shakey mits!

 

[Beagletorque]

EXACTLY!!!!! Yesssss!!!! Well put! If only i had found those words! So Geof is finding it a benefit by using MTF!

Don't forget that the smaller mft pixels are more sesceptible to shake than most DSLR's, which will offset mirrorless benefits!

 

[woof woof]

Not really, IMVHO. At normal print / viewing sizes and distances I don't think that's too much of an issue. It's not been an issue for me in my images anyway and as with certain high resolution and allegedly noisy at a pixel level Canon DSLR's which shall remain nameless if the resolution or any other sensor property is a problem you can always hide it to some extent or maybe all together by downsizing the image. With a high resolution small pixel DSLR you have all of the problems + the additional one of all those mechanical bits thrashing about and causing mirror slap.

 

[Galaxy66]

Do the manufactures claim lower shutter speeds are achievable due to their mirror less design.

 

[woof woof]

Good question... but who reads manuals?

I've just noticed it's possible in use.

 

[Galaxy66]

Good question... but who reads manuals?

I've just noticed it's possible in use.

Then wouldn't you have thought that would have been promoted as a major selling point.

 

[woof woof]

I don't know. Certainly I think many people have been aware of the effects of mirror slap for a long time, hence the use of mirror lock up. And I assume that manufacturers are well aware of this too as they attenpt to dampen the effect and they provide mirror lock up as an option.

I see that you have MFT and DSLR. Have you noticed a difference?

 

[srhmoto]

Some from my dad's back garden, handheld using a Panasonic GH2 and 14-140mm lens.

#1 Anemone Blanders

Anenome Blanders by srhphoto, on Flickr

#2 Drumstick Polyanthus

Drumstick Polyanthus by srhphoto, on Flickr

#3 Anemone Blanders

Anenome Blanders by srhphoto, on Flickr


Cheers,

Simon.

 

[Galaxy66]

I don't know. Certainly I think many people have been aware of the effects of mirror slap for a long time, hence the use of mirror lock up. And I assume that manufacturers are well aware of this too as they attenpt to dampen the effect and they provide mirror lock up as an option.

I see that you have MFT and DSLR. Have you noticed a difference?

I think we can agree then that if what you have experienced is actually true it would have been discovered long before you did and would be high up on their promotional material.

 

[woof woof]

Of course it's true. People have noted the effect of mirror slap and used mirror lock up for decades.