Panamoz.com

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Personally I wouldn't pay any non UK company with direct bank transfers, even to save a few extra quid, but that is also a personal preference.
 
I have used them and they were excellent. I even got a refund for a tc I bought so they honor their warranties as well.

Regards Gerard.
 
Paul pminteriors said:
It's their responsibility do declare goods.
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I'm not sure where you get that idea, the UK importer is responsible for both the accuracy of the Customs Declaration and the payment of the correct vat/duty. The UK importer is the buyer.

A link to the correct HMRC page, which is probably worth a read in it's entirety to get all the correct info. The most relevant section is this:

Goods ordered online from outside the EU

If you buy goods online from outside the EU for delivery to the UK, you'll have to pay Customs Duty and Import VAT on top of the purchase price if the goods are above a certain value - though Customs Duty is waived if the amount of duty payable is £9 or less.

Some Internet sellers outside the EU have arrangements with the UK whereby you pay them the VAT that's due on the goods you're ordering. They then pay the VAT to their postal authority - which in turn pays it to HM Revenue & Customs. Note that these sellers must be authorised to do this. They'll have a special number that will be on the Customs Declaration. The declaration should also carry a message saying 'Import VAT pre-paid'. When this arrangement is used you won't be charged any import VAT or a Royal Mail handling fee when you get your parcel. Note that if the above procedures aren't followed properly you could end up losing the goods.
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At present none of the HK grey retailers have "Import VAT prepaid" status, and if or when they do, it would be labeled on the package as such.

Paul pminteriors said:
They can claim vat back on goods too as I'm pretty sure their turnover will be over £79,000 pa
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No, they can't, a foreign business in Hong Kong cannot register for UK VAT.
 
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But I ordered online from a company based in uk. I paid into a uk bank account. I get a uk warranty. If I have to pay extra tax I will no problem. I just can't understand why all the hype
 
After the debarkle on another thread where I got the treatment and was called a criminal I called HMRC and declared that I had not paid duty etc I then received a bill (available for inspection) duly paid it, advised Panamoz and sent them a scan of the bill & payment receipt which they reimbursed me for less than 24 hours later.

I am fed up with people who think they are holier than thou kicking off and having a go, keyboard warriors don't you just love them jumping on every thread that is not pc and probably report neighbours who's dog takes a crap in the street and has forgotten his plastic bag..

Get a life.
 
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Wow, do you really think that you are so important?
 
Paul pminteriors said:
But I ordered online from a company based in uk. I paid into a uk bank account. I get a uk warranty. If I have to pay extra tax I will no problem. I just can't understand why all the hype
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From their own site;

`Applicable Law and Venue
This User Agreement and any transactions on this Site shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong applicable to agreements made and entirely to be performed within Hong Kong, without resort to its conflict of law provisions. You agree that any action at law or in equity arising out of or relating to these terms and conditions shall be filed only in state or federal court located in Hong Kong, and you hereby irrevocably and unconditionally consent and submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of such courts over any suit, action or proceeding arising out of this User Agreement.`
 
Dave1. Can you explain how you get your findings. Somewhere earlier on someone mentioned do gooders. Hmmmm. I asked a simple question about a business, NOT for a lecture on how the tax system works from someone who doesn't understand!!

The thing with forums is yes speak your mind, but if it's not for you don't bother. Wasting your own time and getting others heckles up! More to life me thinks.
 
Paul pminteriors said:
Dave1. Can you explain how you get your findings. Somewhere earlier on someone mentioned do gooders. Hmmmm. I asked a simple question about a business, NOT for a lecture on how the tax system works from someone who doesn't understand!!

The thing with forums is yes speak your mind, but if it's not for you don't bother. Wasting your own time and getting others heckles up! More to life me thinks.
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The sticky at the top of the forum covers off the basics.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/th...rey-imports-and-other-assorted-topics.512133/

Panamoz amongst others don't pre-pay the VAT for you. When you place an order with them from the UK, if they ship the goods from their HK warehouse, and legally, you become the importer (as defined by the HMRC). At that point you become legally responsible for the import duty (which is 0% on digital cameras) and import VAT (20%) if the sum of both would deb greater than £9.

Searching companies house gives no indication that there is a Panamoz 'UK' company - there is a defunct Panamoz Limited (different address) from 2009, but it's closed and never submitted any accounts. Given the website itself talks of HK law, without a UK legal entity to speak off, it's clear to me that the contract is between you and Panamoz HK; this makes you the legal importer.

The system works as a business model because Panamoz might falsely declare the value of the goods on the customs form hoping to avoid the VAT charge. If you google them, there are enough examples to show this may the case.

If your package does get randomly inspected (which is going to be in the minority), you will get a bill via the carrier service who is delivering the parcel. Panamoz will and do refund you for this charge.

Given this only happens on a minority of their shipments - as will always be the case with a spot check system, their business model is based essentially on the naivety of UK consumers who don't realise or understand that they are intact buying from a HK based company. They go to great lengths to suggest they are a UK based company - but you will note from their website that the agreement is governed by HK law. If the transaction was executed within the UK, and subject to UK consumer protection laws, this would not be the case.

You can put yourself in a legal position by following Toxic's example earlier in the thread - simply declare the import to HMRC yourself, get the bill, pay it and reclaim the money from Panamoz. That's a Win / Win as far as I see it; you get the equipment cheaper and UK PLC gets its slice of the VAT.

All that said, they do appear to have a lot of happy customers and they appear to honour the warranty they provide in lieu of the manufacturer warranty that is usually invalidated by the import.

Paul pminteriors said:
They can claim vat back on goods too as I'm pretty sure their turnover will be over £79,000 pa
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Regarding VAT, since late 2102, even companies outside of the EU who trade within the UK should have registered and accounted for VAT. The fact that Panamoz does not add VAT on at the time of purchase, and don't have a UK VAT number displayed on their website or even the fact that the do offer to refund VAT if charged at customs are clear indicators that they (1) do not pre-pay VAT and (2) Don't Charge and account for VAT at the point of sale.
 
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But the customs get paid at point of import. If not I will declare it myself. Don't need anyone to tell me weather to do this or not. Not one person (I could be wrong) in this country abides 100% by the law so.... My question was answered but to be frank I can't be @rsed with the other right n wrong crap.
 
ecoleman said:
Incorrect.
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I was just going by the HMRC website with regard to the new 2012 rules. Perhaps I have misunderstood them?

If you don't live in the UK or your place of business isn't in the UK
From 1 December 2012, if you don't have a business or fixed establishment here, the UK VAT registration threshold will no longer apply to you.

Your registration date will be the earliest date that
  • you make taxable supplies here
  • you expect to make taxable supplies here within the next 30 days
You must register as a Non-Established Taxable Person (NETP). If you're doing this by post, you can download the application form VAT 1.
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http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/start/register/how-to-register.htm

As I read that, a foreign company cannot be UK VAT registered, but has to register under the Non-Established Taxable Person scheme (which Panamoz hasn't).
 
I'm sure there's another forum somewhere that discusses tax. This one isn't it. It's about photography.
 
Pathetic! I remember getting told what to do when I was a child but now I'm 36 ffs!!! Is it just with panamoz or every other company outside of eu?
 
Paul pminteriors said:
Pathetic! I remember getting told what to do when I was a child but now I'm 36 ffs!!!
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You must really struggle with all those crazy inconvenient "treat you like a child" things called laws?

Paul pminteriors said:
Is it just with panamoz or every other company outside of eu?
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It is like that with virtually every nonEU company you might import goods from, unless the company has an arrangement to collect tax on behalf of HMRC and this will be clearly labelled on the package as import duty/tax paid, and have an HMRC reference that can be checked if you suspect it is false (the onus is on the importer, who is the UK buyer, that any declaration made is correct and all legal liabilities complied with).
 
Paul pminteriors said:
Pathetic! I remember getting told what to do when I was a child but now I'm 36 ffs!!! Is it just with panamoz or every other company outside of eu?
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Just dont worry yourself about it, or get involved in any slagging matches. You wont win. Enjoy your new gear when it comes. What bit of gear I have is about 50/50 between Uk & Panamoz. I used Panamoz simply to get a brand new lens cheaper than a 2nd hand version from ebay. UK shop price was about a £400 saving. Its to big a deal to miss.
 
Dave1 said:
You must really struggle with all those crazy inconvenient "treat you like a child" things called laws?



It is like that with virtually every nonEU company you might import goods from, unless the company has an arrangement to collect tax on behalf of HMRC and this will be clearly labelled on the package as import duty/tax paid, and have an HMRC reference that can be checked if you suspect it is false (the onus is on the importer, who is the UK buyer, that any declaration made is correct and all legal liabilities complied with).
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Dave. I don't struggle with laws. I do struggle with plebs who push the law thinking they are doing the country a favour by being a cut n paster behind a screen. Get a grip lad!!!
 
Paul pminteriors said:
Dave. I don't struggle with laws. I do struggle with plebs who push the law thinking they are doing the country a favour by being a cut n paster behind a screen. Get a grip lad!!!
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You do understand the concept of "forums" I would hope? It isn't a place for pmsinteriors to have their say without other views being allowed.

It wouldn't be a discussion or debate if only your side is allowed...
 
way to go guys....
 
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