Oregon shooting

Oops misread it, sorry. I was remembering one previous post of yours.

Regarding what goes on in another country, to me, people dying, are still people, regardless of any historical divisions. Be it Syria, USA or Africa. There are no areas where it is OK to kill innocent people.
 
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ianp5a said:
Oops sorry.

Regarding what goes on in another country, to me people dying are still people, regardless of any historical divisions. Be it Syria, USA or Africa. There are no areas where it is OK to kill innocent people.
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My point was these gun men would still kill, just with another method/weapon. Indeed countries like Switzerland have pretty low gun crime/homocides despite guns being in the population.

My view in life is sort out your own house first, before nosing around others.
 
I look at as imagine if the same gun laws applied in the UK, imagine whole council estates in Rotherham full of gun owners.

What depresses me is how UK gun owners get all high and mighty about how tough the vetting is and how they got through it due to their amazing charm, whit and obvious higher intellect.
 
We will still discuss it, care about people, and point out how bad the situation is.
If you don't look across borders you'll get the attitude I've seen that some in the US say the gun situation is OK because it's only happening in the bad areas and not in my part of town. So clearly don't care.
 
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ianp5a said:
We will still discuss it, care about people, and point out how bad the situation is.
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But it isn't. The anti gun media make you think its bad. Given the large population of America and the numbers of deaths from guns each year from lunatic shooters is very very low statistically. Lunatics will always kill, they will just find other ways like home made bombs, ram raids, knives etc.

America is hardly a bloody bath.
 
Add to that all the 'normal' homicides, accidental deaths, and even bigger numbers of injuries and maiming not covered by the death tolls. But if you have convinced yourself that there is no problem then, what can I say?
 
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Obama thinks there's a gun problem in the US and he's their boss. People should listen to what the boss says.
 
Per head basis is just for comparison.
Any number of gun deaths anywhere is bad. And 30,000/year in any location is still huge. And hence, very bad.
 
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ST4 said:
But it isn't. The anti gun media make you think its bad. Given the large population of America and the numbers of deaths from guns each year from lunatic shooters is very very low statistically. Lunatics will always kill, they will just find other ways like home made bombs, ram raids, knives etc.

America is hardly a bloody bath.
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I agree. The anti - gun media would have us believe that these very rare occurrences are happening all the time.

I mean it's not like 994 mass shootings* in 1004 days is something that anyone should be concerned about. :p

*mass shooting being measured as 4 or more people shot in one incident

It's little more than hi-jinks, just a bit of fun like drinking cider in the park :D
 
Phil V said:
I agree. The anti - gun media would have us believe that these very rare occurrences are happening all the time.

I mean it's not like 994 mass shootings* in 1004 days is something that anyone should be concerned about. :p

*mass shooting being measured as 4 or more people shot in one incident

It's little more than hi-jinks, just a bit of fun like drinking cider in the park :D
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Per head the number of homicides in the US isn't massively terrible. Many countries are a lot lot worse. Its really not something to get over worked about, IMHO.
 
viv1969 said:
Americaland?
Does your mum know you're using the computer?

No..
No one cried out to ban 'planes, because that would simply be ridiculous. But what did happen is that security become so tight than now the run up to the flight is often longer than the flight itself.
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You bring the spade and we'll dig her up and ask her.
Didn't some co-pilot recently, in the last couple of years, decide to kill themselves and all the passengers on the plane. Wouldn't have happened if they'd banned planes.

dejongj said:
To me a natural response would be to look at the root cause. To look at how mental health is being address. To improve social care and health service. Now that would reduce these kind of crimes and situations. Banning weapons is not saving lives, it is not addressing the actual issue.
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Hurray, someone finally gets it.
A mentally unstable person with a gun is not a good thing, it even happens in this country with its tighter than Americaland gun laws. (Durham, a couple of years ago)
 
cowboy said:
Hurray, someone finally gets it.
A mentally unstable person with a gun is not a good thing, it even happens in this country with its tighter than Americaland gun laws. (Durham, a couple of years ago)
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Absolutely spot on.

But if you have a society with large numbers of disaffected angry people with various degrees of instability making guns readily available doesn't seem the wisest course of action
 
boyfalldown said:
Absolutely spot on.

But if you have a society with large numbers of disaffected angry people with various degrees of instability making guns readily available doesn't seem the wisest course of action
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And larger amounts of people with guns they can defend themselves. Thats the theory. Plus really unstable people will break laws to get guns etc or kill in other ways.
 
ST4 said:
And larger amounts of people with guns they can defend themselves. Thats the theory.
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Its working well

ST4 said:
Plus really unstable people will break laws to get guns etc or kill in other ways.
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True, but the reality is a gun makes killing easy. You're probably not going to be able to do as much damage to a load of people with a knife. Simply because that group of people will be able to stop you more easily
 
ST4 said:
In terms of cutting homicides that would work far far better. Regrettably its not possible. But blanket banning of guns won't work either. If someone wants to kill, they will.

The old phrase "if there is a will, there is a way" springs to mind.
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There's a far higher chance of killing someone on the spur of the moment if you have a gun. It's too easy.

For example, imagine if the Ronnie-Pickering types carried guns. Instead of looking like a proper chump right now, he could be looking at a life stretch instead.
 
ianp5a said:
It's a natural response to think about saving lives, especially in the US where the deaths are so pointless and so many, at over 30,000 every year.

It's the suggestions to do "nothing at all" about it is the unnatural bit.
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Again, why the obsession with the US? Why not South Africa or Brazil for example.
 
I just Google searched "USA road rage shooting".

Blimey.
 
ST4 said:
All killed fairly easily without guns and with the use of a knife and car and some explosives.
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And two of them could only manage one person at a time. The terrorist mangled a few more I'll give you. But the relevance is
 
ST4 said:
How many people did Fred West, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady kill without guns?
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How many children did some evil people kill over 1/4 of a century ago (thats just the most recent of the three) you mean?. I think they only managed one at a time too
 
ST4 said:
They still racked up quite a few killings each all, wait for it...without guns.
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Relevance Steve. Serial killers who prayed on children 1/4 century ago. Thats your argument against gun control? Really
 
viv1969 said:
By saying you've been....on holiday or longer term?
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A couple of working trips of a month each, and three two week holidays.
Most Americans I met were just fine, no different to us. One of the US workers, a young female from Alabama (typical NRA material) owned a few guns, and went hunting regularly. Her view as I said in a previous post, was that we Brits were to blame for US gun laws, and that our gun laws in the UK were a joke.
 
boyfalldown said:
Relevance Steve. Serial killers who prayed on children 1/4 century ago. Thats your argument against gun control? Really
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That people can kill lots of people without the use of a fire arm. I really don't think if you put gun controls in America homicide rates would fall and other methods of homicide goes up but overall homocides would remain around the same rate.
 
MartynK said:
Why are people in the UK getting so hot under the collar about what happens in a foreign country, thousands of miles away? It's up to the US to address this issue, if they want to, not the Brits who were disarmed by their own government nearly a hundred years ago.
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Because every time there is a shooting in the US, it dominates UK news for a day or two, and given the fact that the US do not want to change their laws to stop these incidents happening, I would rather see some news which is relevant to the UK.
 
ST4 said:
In terms of cutting homicides that would work far far better. Regrettably its not possible. But blanket banning of guns won't work either. If someone wants to kill, they will.

The old phrase "if there is a will, there is a way" springs to mind.
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You're right.

But they need the will and the means, and often the means is unavailable, and the will dissipates. That changes when there's a gun handy. It's quite simple to understand for anyone who's ever witnessed bad tempered people becoming violent in a flash, which is why a proliferation of guns means an increase in the number of shootings.

We could all get hold of a gun if we were desperate to, but we're often not desperate to. Make them easy to get access to and encourage a culture round them and you end up with a lot of people having them handy when they lose their temper, or worse, when they suffer from a psychotic illness. That's when the mix gets dangerous.

Like I said, it's obvious to anyone who knows how human beings behave, and doesn't enter the debate with a closed mind.
 
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