Oregon shooting

We don't know the true details yet but how many more instances like this is it going to take before the Americans see sense with their ridiculous gun laws?
 
bindex said:
We don't know the true details yet but how many more instances like this is it going to take before the Americans see sense with their ridiculous gun laws?
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They never will.
 
bindex said:
We don't know the true details yet but how many more instances like this is it going to take before the Americans see sense with their ridiculous gun laws?
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Why?

Banning guns will not stop this... and as was discussed in another thread, there are many more countries where deaths by gun are far more common. Cant remember the exact stats but South Africa is 10 times worse! Ok, most of the countries worse than the USA are less developed, but these sort of things will happen in those countries but they just don't get reported as widely.
 
These kinds of shootings are more about the intersection of several different American subcultures than just relatively unrestricted access to guns, but that is even less likely to get fixed anytime soon than having access to guns rescinded.
 
cambsno said:
Why?

Banning guns will not stop this... and as was discussed in another thread, there are many more countries where deaths by gun are far more common. Cant remember the exact stats but South Africa is 10 times worse! Ok, most of the countries worse than the USA are less developed, but these sort of things will happen in those countries but they just don't get reported as widely.
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You're not seriously trying to tell me that America has sensible gun laws are you?
I've heard some absolute rubbish on here but that is just bloody ridiculous.
 
bindex said:
You're not seriously trying to tell me that America has sensible gun laws are you?
I've heard some absolute rubbish on here but that is just bloody ridiculous.
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Where did I say that? Maybe you should re-read.

Every time there is a shooting some people jump up and down about gun laws in the USA. Yes, their laws are a contributory factor but culture and history play a huge part. There are also place with far worse gun crime than the U.S. Like Sth Africa, or Brazil but these are never highlighted in the media,unless you are a legless sprinter! If you think that banning guns will stop this you are very naive!
 
OK Simon, to an extent you're right. However, surely reducing the amount of guns available would at least be a step in the right direction. I'm not actually naïve enough to think that banning them would actually work either, even in this country they're available at a price, licensed or not. The criminal element of society would take no notice anyway.

I do fear that in America there are so many guns available and it's so entrenched in their psyche, let alone their constitution, that there isn't a solution at all. As to South Africa and Brazil you may well be right too. It doesn't make me feel any better!
 
Yet oddly when we tightened gun laws in the UK Following a massacre, it worked, when they changed the laws in Australia following a massacre - it worked. To suggest that it's hideously complicated is a joke.

It's simple, if it's easy to get hold of a gun, it's too easy for a nutcase to get hold of a gun. If you want to make it difficult for a nutcase to get hold of a gun, you put controls in place, I generally dismiss things because they're obvious... But FFS.
 
The shooter had started a thread on 4-c-h-a-n and was egged-on by other idiots. I won't post any links but if you search Twitter you'll find screenshots of some of the posts. :(
 
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Phil V said:
Yet oddly when we tightened gun laws in the UK Following a massacre, it worked, when they changed the laws in Australia following a massacre - it worked. To suggest that it's hideously complicated is a joke.

It's simple, if it's easy to get hold of a gun, it's too easy for a nutcase to get hold of a gun. If you want to make it difficult for a nutcase to get hold of a gun, you put controls in place, I generally dismiss things because they're obvious... But FFS.
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I think it's more complex in US than Oz & UK because of the gun culture that's so engrained. I think it made such a stark difference here as us & Oz don't think it's their natural born right to carry a gun at all times or that the obvious solution to the church shooting would have been to arm all church goers.

Trust me Phil, I think it's a terrifying culture and it played a part on some major life decisions I made to stay away from the US, but I dint think a simple ban would be as effective as here & Oz.
 
ZoneV said:
The shooter had started a thread on 4-c-h-a-n and was egged-on by other idiots. I won't post any links but if you search Twitter you'll find screenshots of some of the posts. :(
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Yet it's the fault of the gun laws ;)
 
I have a link to an archive of the thread. I want to post it so everyone can see the crazyness, but unsure whether I should. Advice please?
 
cambsno said:
Where did I say that? Maybe you should re-read.

Every time there is a shooting some people jump up and down about gun laws in the USA. Yes, their laws are a contributory factor but culture and history play a huge part. There are also place with far worse gun crime than the U.S. Like Sth Africa, or Brazil but these are never highlighted in the media,unless you are a legless sprinter! If you think that banning guns will stop this you are very naive!
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If culture and history are to blame, then we should be running around shooting each other with bows and arrows etc
 
Makes me sad every time I read about these shooting :( but this one oddly even more than normal because I've a few photography friends in that part of the world including one who is the principle of a high school only 60 miles from this shooting :(
 
dan_yell said:
I think it's more complex in US than Oz & UK because of the gun culture that's so engrained. I think it made such a stark difference here as us & Oz don't think it's their natural born right to carry a gun at all times or that the obvious solution to the church shooting would have been to arm all church goers.

Trust me Phil, I think it's a terrifying culture and it played a part on some major life decisions I made to stay away from the US, but I dint think a simple ban would be as effective as here & Oz.
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They had almost exactly the same culture in Oz. But once was enough for them.

It's political not cultural, the figures amongst the population are around 50/50, but the gun lobby is a rich massive political machine.

I've got a few photography 'friends' in the US, and I just can't understand how brilliantly the influence of the pro gun lobby works.

You see people repeat it here, no matter how ridiculous, the more s*** like this happens, the more people need guns 'for protection'. Point out to them that the best defended human being on the planet, surrounded by highly trained, heavily armed bodyguards was still shot by a lone idiot, and they still argue it's better to be armed than not. It's futile.
 
It's much shared and likely won't be news to anyone, but Jim Jefferies' rant on gun control explains the situation perfectly for me.

Looks like it's been pulled fro YouTube (some b****r's probably sticking it in an ad supported channel!), but
you can still see if you search.

*Edit - found a working link

 
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Phil V said:
You see people repeat it here, no matter how ridiculous, the more s*** like this happens, the more people need guns 'for protection'. Point out to them that the best defended human being on the planet, surrounded by highly trained, heavily armed bodyguards was still shot by a lone idiot, and they still argue it's better to be armed than not. It's futile.
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If you are in a gun to gun confrontation, there's a 50% chance you will end up as the dead person. Those are not good odds for self defence.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
If you are in a gun to gun confrontation, there's a 50% chance you will end up as the dead person. Those are not good odds for self defence.


Steve.
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And what are the chances if you are in a gun-no gun confrontation?
 
The peopke who hold the real power in that uncivilised nation care more about a pointless piece of centuries old paper AND profit than they do about dead kids.

Until that changes (never) then there will be thousands more dead kids.

God bless the USA
 
norters said:
The peopke who hold the real power in that uncivilised nation care more about a pointless piece of centuries old paper AND profit than they do about dead kids.

Until that changes (never) then there will be thousands more dead kids.

God bless the USA
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That is a pretty good summation in my opinion.
 
dejongj said:
And what are the chances if you are in a gun-no gun confrontation?
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Don't know. I would rather be in a no gun to no gun confrontation.

The pro gfun nuts usually state that they need a gun to protect themselves from someone else with a gun... which is clearly nonsense.


Steve.
 
Phil V said:
They had almost exactly the same culture in Oz. But once was enough for them.

It's political not cultural, the figures amongst the population are around 50/50, but the gun lobby is a rich massive political machine.

I've got a few photography 'friends' in the US, and I just can't understand how brilliantly the influence of the pro gun lobby works.

You see people repeat it here, no matter how ridiculous, the more s*** like this happens, the more people need guns 'for protection'. Point out to them that the best defended human being on the planet, surrounded by highly trained, heavily armed bodyguards was still shot by a lone idiot, and they still argue it's better to be armed than not. It's futile.
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You're correct, it's impossible to understand & futile. It makes me incredibly sad.
 
Steve Smith said:
Don't know. I would rather be in a no gun to no gun confrontation.

The pro gfun nuts usually state that they need a gun to protect themselves from someone else with a gun... which is clearly nonsense.


Steve.
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I would rather be in no confrontation at all ;)

None of these comments hold true for a nutter wanting to go into a school and find out who are Christians to shoot them. Sorry but the weapons are immaterial for someone whose mind is so distorted. Against a sane mind I fully agree that I would rather be unarmed when facing a gun man as the situation is unlikely to escalate. And if I was armed I likely wouldn't draw my weapon. However in situations like these there is no sense, it will escalate with only one outcome. I would rather be armed.
 
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This is the 35th school / college shooting incident in the US this year alone.
It beggars belief.
 
Phil V said:
Put better control on guns and what are your chances of that happening?
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Well I've been shot at twice in the UK alone I guess I'm an edge case?

The real question, to me, is why there is such a need to conduct mass killings in schools?
 
dejongj said:
Well I've been shot at twice in the UK alone I guess I'm an edge case?

The real question, to me, is why there is such a need to conduct mass killings in schools?
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In what scenarios were you shot at?
Very rare in the UK.
Why do they shoot up schools?
Because they're cowards and schools are an easy headlining target?
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
On that logic, better carry 2 guns then.
Wouldn't it be better to be in a no gun - no gun situation?
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Yes it would :thumbs:

Bobsyeruncle said:
In what scenarios were you shot at?
Very rare in the UK.
Why do they shoot up schools?
Because they're cowards and schools are an easy headlining target?
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First time I was getting into a taxi, second time I was walking along the street to my hotel.
 
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dejongj said:
Yes it would (y)



First time I was getting into a taxi, second time I was walking along the street to my hotel.
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Are you a gangster or drug baron?
:p:p
Was there a specific reason why you were shot at?
 
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