Oregon shooting

ianp5a said:
Whichever way you twist it, the US figures are still humongous.
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It's nothing to do with twisting. God killed many more in one day without a gun recently if you really want to go wave willies on who kills most ;) remember Saudi Arabia?
 
More people have been shot dead in the US since the hajj disaster. And looks to be repeated every 3 weeks.
And other bad things don't make the US situation any less bad.
You'll probably find more efforts being made in Saudi Arabia to prevent that happening again. Despite their human rights record.
 
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ianp5a said:
More people have been shot dead in the US since the hajj disaster. And looks to be repeated every 3 weeks.
And other bad things don't make the US situation any less bad.
You'll probably find more efforts being made in Saudi Arabia to prevent that happening again. Despite their human rights record.
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And you think and they think they can stop God's will?

The point was for the third time that nobody seems to be concerned about a mass shooting at home despite all the gun controls applied. Yet are so focuses abroad.

If people want to kill they will.
 
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dejongj said:
And you think and they think they can stop God's will?
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I thought you didn't believe in God (or Allah)?

dejongj said:
The point was for the third time that nobody seems to be concerned about a mass shooting at home despite all the gun controls applied. Yet are so focuses abroad.
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Its quite possible to be worried about both. But this is a thread about the Oregon Shootings. Also, fortunately shootings of 7 year olds are rare enough over here to still make the news.

dejongj said:
If people want to kill they will.
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I agree, but guns make it an awful lot easier.They can be a great leveller too. I'm going to bet that people with military training will say they'd rather face a gun then a knife at close quarters. But to kill a number of people a gun makes it so much easier
 
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dejongj said:
And you think and they think they can stop God's will?
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boyfalldown said:
I thought you didn't believe in God (or Allah)?
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I thought the stock answer to that is "God gave us free will"
( To f*** things up for ourselves ;) )
(Although I'm fairly sure that last bit doesn't appear in any scriptures :D )
 
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boyfalldown said:
I thought you didn't believe in God (or Allah)?



Its quite possible to be worried about both. But this is a thread about the Oregon Shootings. Also, fortunately shootings of 7 year olds are rare enough over here to still make the news.




I agree, but guns make it an awful lot easier.They can be a great leveller too. I'm going to bet that people with military training will say they'd rather face a gun then a knife at close quarters. But to kill a number of people a gun makes it so much easier
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It's irrelevant what I believe as I wasn't there on the pilgrimage.

And yes this is about he Oregon shooting, however it did go into also sorts of anti gun statistics and super small (in my opinion) cohorts that make up mass shootings which get included in the anti stats when it seems to fit.
 
Cobra said:
I thought the stock answer to that is "God gave us free will"
( To f*** things up for ourselves ;) )
(Although I'm fairly sure that last bit doesn't appear in any scriptures :D )
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Lol no I don't believe myself, but that is besides the point. The people that were there do, so that should be good enough for them. I'm happy to be proven wrong on that subject when my time comes.
 
dejongj said:
Lol no I don't believe myself, but that is besides the point. The people that were there do, so that should be good enough for them. I'm happy to be proven wrong on that subject when my time comes.
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It'll be too late then ;)
 
dejongj said:
And you think and they think they can stop God's will?
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What a joke.

dejongj said:
The point was for the third time that nobody seems to be concerned about a mass shooting at home despite all the gun controls applied. Yet are so focuses abroad.
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"You" may not realise it, but a lot of people are concerned.

Now regarding gun controls, I suspect the gun was obtained illegally. But it will have been made and distributed legally for markets where guns are legal. So thank you USA and other gun totin places for making it possible for crooks to get weapons to hurt and kill innocent people in the UK.
 
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dejongj said:
t's irrelevant what I believe as I wasn't there on the pilgrimage.
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I know. Just pointing out that God can't have a will if you don't believe in him ;)

dejongj said:
And yes this is about he Oregon shooting, however it did go into also sorts of anti gun statistics and super small (in my opinion) cohorts that make up mass shootings which get included in the anti stats when it seems to fit.
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There is a really good discussion on the mass shooting tracker as to how those stats and definitions are arrived at. It seems as reasonable as anything else I've read about this.
 
ianp5a said:
What a joke.

"You" may not realise it, but a lot of people are concerned.

Now regarding gun controls, I suspect the gun was obtained illegally. But it will have been made and distributed legally for markets where guns are legal. So thank you USA and other gun totin places for making it possible for crooks to get weapons to hurt and kill innocent people in the UK.
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You see I think you totally underestimate people. If guns didn't exist they would be invented ;)
 
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ianp5a said:
So thank you USA and other gun totin places for making it possible for crooks to get weapons to hurt and kill innocent people in the UK.
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The article reads as though it was a pistol,
So you may have to thank
Germany, Belgium, Switzerland and Austria too.
 
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Cobra said:
The article reads as though it was a pistol,
So you may have to thank
Germany, Belgium, Switzerland and Austria too.
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Or just 3D print one ;)
 
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dejongj said:
Or just 3D print one ;)
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There was something about that recently, I'm not sure if they found a way of stopping it, or not, after someone was discovered with one.
 
Cobra said:
The article reads as though it was a pistol,
So you may have to thank
Germany, Belgium, Switzerland and Austria too.
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Except in those countries you won't find the huge retail and distribution networks from where they could be stolen, nor vast numbers of legal gun owners who are robbed or lose, or sell those guns privately. Guns are just oozing out of the USA. Totally different to Europe.
 
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Cobra said:
I thought the stock answer to that is "God gave us free will"
( To f*** things up for ourselves ;) )
(Although I'm fairly sure that last bit doesn't appear in any scriptures :D )
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It probably was in some of them - you know, the ones that didn't meet the church's edit and/or got FUBAR in translation from Aramaic to ancient Greek to Latin etc....
 
ianp5a said:
Except in those countries you won't find the huge retail and distribution networks from where they could be stolen, nor vast numbers of legal gun owners who are robbed or lose, or sell those guns privately. Guns are just oozing out of the USA. Totally different to Europe.
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Much easier to import from Europe than the states though.

And of course don't forget all the guns that were illegally held here, before the handgun ban,
I'm sure they were all turned in too!
 
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ianp5a said:
Except in those countries you won't find the huge retail and distribution networks from where they could be stolen, nor vast numbers of legal gun owners who are robbed or lose, or sell those guns privately. Guns are just oozing out of the USA. Totally different to Europe.
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No it isn't. It's really easy in Europe. Even more so with the former east block countries having joined. Don't forget that many more authorities carry guns as well. There is sufficient distribution. And no border checks.
 
It's extremely difficult to get hold of a gun in Germany.
And previous illegally held guns in the UK will eventually get taken out of circulation. It's the influx of new illegal weapons that makes it easier and cheaper for crooks to hurt people.

You can't compare it with the ease of available of both legal and illegal weapons.
 
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ianp5a said:
And previous illegally held guns in the UK will eventually get taken out of circulation.
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I'm sure the police will happy to hear that.

TBH its seems that you have a real downer on the USA,
Just because they have liberal gun laws.
 
Cobra said:
TBH its seems that you have a real downer on the USA,
Just because they have liberal gun laws.
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Nope. Just the terrible situation they have got themselves in. So when people here propose that there is no problem there, which they have, and there is such a wealth of data showing the opposite, it's easy to point that out.

There are a lot of bright Americans, including the president, who wants to do something about it. But I wrote that before if you remember. I'm not impressed with the NRA types though.
 
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ianp5a said:
It's extremely difficult to get hold of a gun in Germany.
And previous illegally held guns in the UK will eventually get taken out of circulation. It's the influx of new illegal weapons that makes it easier and cheaper for crooks to hurt people.

You can't compare it with the ease of available of both legal and illegal weapons.
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Extremely hard in Germany? Are you serious? Fair enough I haven't lived there a while, but having been stationed there in the army, worked and lived, I fully disagree.
 
Are you comparing it with the USA? Do you think people own guns in Germany like in the USA? Do you think there are gun shops everywhere like in the USA? It just doesn't make sense.
 
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ianp5a said:
So when people here propose that there is no problem there, which they have, and there is such a wealth of data showing the opposite, it's easy to point that out.
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The problem is there is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it.
(Whether we want to or not.) Save moving out there and joining the anti gun lobby.

dejongj said:
Extremely hard in Germany? Are you serious? Fair enough I haven't lived there a while, but having been stationed there in the army, worked and lived, I fully disagree.
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Its a lot easier to drive from Europe than the states too and the boarder controls are far more relaxed as well ;)
Besides, Poland seems to be the place to "buy from" (Allegedly) these days.
 
You'll find that those guns are manufactured legally for legal markets. Which is what I posted before.
 
ianp5a said:
Are you comparing it with the USA? Do you think people own guns in Germany like in the USA? Do you think there are gun shops everywhere like in the USA? It just doesn't make sense.
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No I am not because that situation doesn't exist. That doesn't mean it is hard for people who want a gun or kill people. If people want to kill people they will. It really isn't that hard to find weapons of you are looking for them.
 
ianp5a said:
You'll find that those guns are manufactured legally for legal markets. Which is what I posted before.
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As are all guns.
 
I'm repeating now. If there is no market for them they will stop making them. And will get harder and harder to get hold of. It's already hard to steal from the military.
 
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ianp5a said:
I'm repeating now. If there is no market for them they will stop making them. And will get harder and harder to get hold of. It's already hard to steal from the military.
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But that is the crux, there is a market for them. Except for with those people who are against them. Everyone else wants them and likes them.
 
Cobra said:
As are ALMOST all guns.
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(FTFY)


There are a few handmade ones and now (potentially) some 3D printed ones which are in all probability manufactured illegally for illegal markets.
 
ianp5a said:
Are you comparing it with the USA? Do you think people own guns in Germany like in the USA? Do you think there are gun shops everywhere like in the USA? It just doesn't make sense.
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Isn't gun ownership far more tightly regulated in Germany than than US? So, whilst gun ownership might be high in Germany, they're not as easy to (legally) buy and you can't walk around in public cowboying-it-up.
 
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ianp5a said:
There are a lot of bright Americans, including the president, who want to do something about it. But I wrote that before if you remember. I'm not impressed with the NRA types though.
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I like Obama. He's one of the most sensible presidents the Americans have ever had.
 
Nod said:
some 3D printed ones which are in all probability manufactured illegally for illegal markets.
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As above I think they managed to stop that happening ( don't ask me how) when the first one was discovered.
ZoneV said:
I like Obama. He's one of the most sensible presidents the Americans have ever had.
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But not not for much longer Eh? ;)

ZoneV said:
and you can't walk around in public cowboying-it-up.
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I think you watch to many John Wayne films, I spent 6 months in the states not once did I see an open carry.
 
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Cobra said:
I think you watch to many John Wayne films, I spent 6 months in the states not once did I see an open carry.
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Nope, never seen one. :)

You don't have to open carry to be a "cowboy".

If gun legislation in the US was stricter - like it is in Germany - then there would be far fewer gun-related deaths each year.
 
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