Official Talk Leica thread

Hi, bokeh plays ... (M9 - VOIGTLÄNDER Ultron 2/28 II f 2 ) :



70 cm to car :


L1027076_DxO-v282-2.jpg



crop:


L1027076_DxO-v282-2-c.jpg



50cm to car (mechanical metering) :


L1027079_DxO-v282-2.jpg



crop:


L1027080_DxO-v282-2-c.jpg



A closer look :


L1027080_DxO-v282-2-cc.jpg



(I wanted to find out whether the bokeh balls showed onion-rings, which happens with my NOKTON 1,2/35 asph. v1.

The Ultron's bokeh balls are fairly smooth ... )
 
Late afternoon at the local lake. I’ve borrowed a 28mm lens from a mate to see if I like the focal length on my M10-P but at the moment I’m quite undecided about it.

I think I’ll stick with my 35mm Summicron for the time being.

E5B9C16A-029A-4236-B17D-5ACFD724BC35.jpeg
 
Hi, the BSI sensor of the M11 is described here :

www.dpreview.com

Leica's M11 risks rendering the rangefinder obsolete

The Leica M11 is a great platform for M-mount lenses, but arguably, its modern capabilities bring into question the future of a camera that builds so much on heritage.
www.dpreview.com www.dpreview.com

I quote :

"Right back to the earliest digital M, Leica has adopted offset microlenses, to ensure that the pixels near the edge of the sensor can cope with light rays approaching the sensor at a very shallow angle. This is a particular challenge for lenses that mount very close to the sensor, especially when some of these optics were designed with film in mind.

The M11 makes two significant steps further in this regard. The first is the adoption of a BSI CMOS sensor for the first time in the M range. This puts the light-sensitive part of each pixel closer to the front of the sensor, improving the angles from which the sensor can accept incoming light, which takes some pressure off the microlenses, as the light doesn't need to be channeled down into the sensor to the same degree.

On top of this, Leica's super-thin cemented two-layer filter promises to provide precise UV/IR filtering, even with low-angle light rays. The thinness of the filter again reduces the risk of shallow-angle light rays being reflected or refracted too far as they pass through."


I derive from this :

Not any camera with a BSI sensor only will perform with M mount WAs and UWAs without performance problems.

Low cost adapter solutions (SONY A7iii) look less attractive to me, because they may lack Leica M11 equivalent filters (SONY E mount lenses do no need them.).

Cameras are integrated systems now, with high res sensors and matching lenses. The happy low-cost adapting days are over.

Maybe, these are rather esoteric questions I should have discussed with Melanie (my hairdresser).

But I did not want to wait so long ... :D
 
justpix said:
Cameras are integrated systems now, with high res sensors and matching lenses. The happy low-cost adapting days are over.

Maybe, these are rather esoteric questions I should have discussed with Melanie (my hairdresser).

But I did not want to wait so long ... :D
Click to expand...

I'm probably more of a geek than most but I do try and keep the final image and viewing in mind. If I start at that point I can then work backwards and decide what kit and what settings I need.

Do I for example want a lovely A3 print? What look and / or effect am I going for? Do I want to be able to pixel peep into the very corners and see perfection? Do I want to view a whole picture on screen? Do I want to do a heavy crop? That sort of thing.

Thinking of these things some requirements and scenarios will be beyond lenses designed and made 40 years ago from a technical and pixel peeping and looking for any optical issues point of view but photographs can be more than technically accurate captures so I don't think I'll ever leave adapted lenses completely behind, not until my eyesight goes and I can't do manual focus any more.
 
woof woof said:
I'm probably more of a geek than most but I do try and keep the final image and viewing in mind. If I start at that point I can then work backwards and decide what kit and what settings I need.

Do I for example want a lovely A3 print? What look and / or effect am I going for? Do I want to be able to pixel peep into the very corners and see perfection? Do I want to view a whole picture on screen? Do I want to do a heavy crop? That sort of thing.

Thinking of these things some requirements and scenarios will be beyond lenses designed and made 40 years ago from a technical and pixel peeping and looking for any optical issues point of view but photographs can be more than technically accurate captures so I don't think I'll ever leave adapted lenses completely behind, not until my eyesight goes and I can't do manual focus any more.
Click to expand...

Hi, over the years, I moved from adapting lenses (M mount, SLR lenses from NIKON, OLYMPUS, ZEISS, LEITZ, Pentacon, VOIGTLÄNDER ... ) to using native solutions almost exclusively.

But every now and then I ask myself if I could find a "second home" for my 32 Leica M mount lenses. And the new BSI sensors looked promising, at first.

I have around 90 lenses now, I think. Not every purchase was strictly necessary. But it was fun ... ---
 
justpix said:
I have around 90 lenses now, I think. Not every purchase was strictly necessary. But it was fun ... ---
Click to expand...

That's reason enough :D

I'm tied to home a lot so reading about lenses and trying to find a nice one and testing them and seeing how they perform is a nice bit of escapism.
 
Horse Rider (Leica M3 / 90mm Elmar)

Horse Rider Swindon Leica M3.jpg
 
Canon R6 with adapted Leica 35mm Summilux. Forum software has blurred it to bits, because it's pin sharp IRL. Love the combo of small manual M lenses for zone focussing and being able to use the EF lenses for auto-focus fun.

R6_I0106.jpg
 
Oh i meant to menition, I noticed from the ISO800 photos last night my Leica M9 has a couple of pixel line faults on the sensor.

Ffordes have offered a refund for it, shame - will have to start the hunt again
 
dancook said:
Oh i meant to menition, I noticed from the ISO800 photos last night my Leica M9 has a couple of pixel line faults on the sensor.

Ffordes have offered a refund for it, shame - will have to start the hunt again
Click to expand...
b****r. Good to hear Ffordes are stepping up.
 
dancook said:
Oh i meant to menition, I noticed from the ISO800 photos last night my Leica M9 has a couple of pixel line faults on the sensor.

Ffordes have offered a refund for it, shame - will have to start the hunt again
Click to expand...
That's a real bummer, M9s are getting rarer and more expensive now (probably not what you wanted to hear) good luck wiith the hunting. (y)
 
Topsy said:
That's a real bummer, M9s are getting rarer and more expensive now (probably not what you wanted to hear) good luck wiith the hunting. (y)
Click to expand...

the one from ffordes was £1895 which seemed pretty good, will keep an eye out
 
dancook said:
the one from ffordes was £1895 which seemed pretty good, will keep an eye out
Click to expand...
At least with them they don't quibble about the return. When my M7 went back due to dead electrics, they just refunded and done.
 
I wouldn't touch an M9 unless (a) the sensor has been replaced and (b) it's definitely the fixed version of the sensor without the tendency to self-destruct (early replacements just used the same sensor as the original, and are equally likely to develop corrosion).
 
Last edited:
Retune said:
I wouldn't touch an M9 unless (a) the sensor has been replaced and (b) it's definitely the fixed version of the sensor without the tendency to self-destruct (early replacements just used the same sensor as the original, and are equally likely to develop corrosion).
Click to expand...

You can check the ID of the sensor to confirm it's 15/16 and then you're good.. . for the corrosion issue at least.
 
Hi, BBC (Bokeh Ball Comparison) today. I was worried whether the new Ultron II showed onion rings. And I wanted to see how my other M mount 28mm lenses perform.

The full picture:

L1027086_DxO-L28a-28.jpg



Elmarit 2,8/28 asph. v1 crop:

L1027086_DxO-L28a-28-c.jpg




Elmarit 2,8/28 :

L1027093_DxO-L28-28-c.jpg




Ultron 2/28 :

L1027096_DxO-v28-2-c.jpg



Ultron II 2/28 :

L1027096_DxO-v28-2-c.jpg


 
Hi, I wanted to take a closer look ... :

Elmarit 2,8/28 asph. v1 :
L1027086_DxO-L28a-28-bbc.jpg

Elmarit 2,8/28 :
L1027093_DxO-L28-28-bbc.jpg

Ultron 2/28 :
L1027096_DxO-v28-2-bbc.jpg

Ultron II 2/28 :
L1027099_DxO-v282-2-bbc.jpg


All lenses were open. I put the crops closely together for easier evaluation. My summary : The new Ultron did not disappoint me. But it is not dramatically superior
to my other 28mm M mount lenses ...
 
dancook said:
Oh i meant to menition, I noticed from the ISO800 photos last night my Leica M9 has a couple of pixel line faults on the sensor
Click to expand...

Did you contact Leica about a re-mapping?

I'd get Ffordes to handle the shipping etc, sounds like you found a relatively cheap decent M9 and it maybe that a little fettle from Leica is all that's needed
 
Retune said:
I wouldn't touch an M9 unless (a) the sensor has been replaced and (b) it's definitely the fixed version of the sensor without the tendency to self-destruct (early replacements just used the same sensor as the original, and are equally likely to develop corrosion).
Click to expand...

The issue is the cover glass, not the sensor itself.

I expect that the majority of M9s by now have the newer sensor or they've gone to the great camera heaven in the sky!

There're companies offering to replace cover glass outside of Leica these days (costs about a grand)

But for sure buyer beware / buyer be educated when it comes to the M9 sensor
 
Adzman808 said:
Did you contact Leica about a re-mapping?

I'd get Ffordes to handle the shipping etc, sounds like you found a relatively cheap decent M9 and it maybe that a little fettle from Leica is all that's needed
Click to expand...

No I didn’t, ah all too late now
 
Adzman808 said:
The issue is the cover glass, not the sensor itself.

I expect that the majority of M9s by now have the newer sensor or they've gone to the great camera heaven in the sky!

There're companies offering to replace cover glass outside of Leica these days (costs about a grand)

But for sure buyer beware / buyer be educated when it comes to the M9 sensor
Click to expand...
The time to failure seems to vary by quite a lot (perhaps depending on environmental conditions) and they were still using the flawed sensor in replacements until some time in 2015, so I wouldn't make any assumptions about a random camera without direct evidence, like the CCD ID Dan mentions. Replacing the cover glass seems to be a somewhat risky procedure and isn't always possible (see the disclaimer here).
 
Retune said:
The time to failure seems to vary by quite a lot (perhaps depending on environmental conditions) and they were still using the flawed sensor in replacements until some time in 2015, so I wouldn't make any assumptions about a random camera without direct evidence, like the CCD ID Dan mentions. Replacing the cover glass seems to be a somewhat risky procedure and isn't always possible (see the disclaimer here).
Click to expand...

This is the big issue really, Leica only ever swapped the entire sensor assembly including PCB. Which means that now they're out of sensors they're out any part related to the sensor

Personally I wouldn't buy an M9 (for starters I have one already, with a 2017 sensor replacement) that needs the 3rd party repair, I'd only consider it if I needed it on an existing camera, then I'd approach the various companies offering a cover glass replacement and ask them for their guaranty and pick the one that I trusted

I'm not doubting internet rhetoric that the CCD ID tells the story, but if it were me (and again it's not) I'd contact Leica directly with the serial number of my intended purchase and enquire if its had the sensor replacement and when - apparently they're happy to provide this information

To be fair to Leica... from what I've read about the failure, the original sensor OEM (Kodak) made a poor choice ordering the correct specification cover glass from Schott (or maybe it was Schott's mistake), then it took some years to come to light, ie have enough failures for it to be a wide enough reaching problem (remember not everyone is on the internet complaining, if you sell 1000s of units then it takes a while to get sufficient data that something is potentially wrong with all of them, especial when the part in question is supplier sourced), by this time Kodak had long since stopped making sensors and sold their sensor business. I think this was in turn sold on again (!) and the final owner of the Kodak sensor manufacturing capabilities produced the units that are corrosion free. Again... A few hundred or even thousand folks on the internet extolling the virtues of the CCD look through dewy eyes isn't enough to keep an outdated product alive (the M9 sensor was hardly cutting edge in 2009 let alone 2020!) and they duly ceased fabrication in 2020.

Which is why Leica ran out and can't supply them any longer.

I do love my M9 though... it has a charm to the colours and especially the tonality that really suits some images. I don't use it as much as I should simply because if I break it or wear it out I don't want the hassle of replacing it.

The M10 is more my daily driver now! The IQ isn't the same (although I've profiled out some of the biggest colour differences), but I like the M10 images, they have enough charm with good colour.
 
Here's the M9 and the M10 (M10 has my custom profile), both have similar exposure edits and AWB


Screenshot 2022-01-21 at 14.15.52.png


When we have the same image with each camera, it's quite easy to match them on a case by case basis (note, I haven't done that here, just edited each in isolation)

With the M10 I find it's a fools game to try too much to match the M9's burgundy reds and red-y oranges - you just eff up with skin tones too much :-D

Also the M9 has quite a saturated blue, but of course at only 9 stops DR the sky often goes a bit cyan-y (because it's bright and near the upper end of the tone curve), trying to make the M10 blues more cyan is also a mistake IMO

I appreciate you're looking at a screen dump and (obviously) I've picked two images where the match was pretty good (it's not always that way)

But for my opinion, unless one is deeply obsessed with the CIELAB values of the M9 (!!!!), then the trick is (IMHO) to try and replicate the essence of the things you like about M9 images, which for me (YMMV) is bright, open shadows, quite saturated colours, pure reds and a slightly cool WB

In fact dropping the camera's WB by about 300K on any M10 (or maybe 600K on an M240) image will IMHO get you a lot of the way there!

(I won't label which is which, I know people like to guess these things!)
 
Hi, ... (M9 - VOIGTLÄNDER Ultron 2/28 II f 2) :



L1027140_DxO-v282-2.jpg



crop :

L1027140_DxO-v282-2-c.jpg


(The new Ultron is very Leica-like : well made, compact, good performance. Only the price does not match ...

I am waiting for the sun to test flaring.)
 
Escalators at Canary Wharf underground station (Panasonic FX55 / Leica DC Vario-Elmarit)

Escaltors at Canary Wharf underground station FX55 1010875.JPG
 
Hi, Theodor-Heuss Brücke in Mainz/D ... (M9 - VOIGTLÄNDER Ultron 2/28 II f 4; crop) :



L1027157_DxO-v282-4-f.jpg
 

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Harlequin565 said:
Me too. Lovely images. Right up my street.
Click to expand...
Thanks Ian, they are the sort of shots I anticipated using my Yashica-Mat for on Tri-X or HP5 but tbh unless I go out specifically to do a set the film just sits for weeks until I finish it and often not on those type of subjects just stuff to get the roll finished and processed. I hate ot say it but digital is far more convenient in that regard and that little D-Lux Typ109 (Lumix LX100 in a different shell) is brilliant since once you have set the aspect ratio you can't change it even in LR so what you take is what you get.
 
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