Official Talk Leica thread

Having posted this review, which I thought said a lot about Leica is about, I rather liked the conclusion:

“ With this you enjoy the process largely because it sort of gets out of the way. There’s no fiddling the same as you would with others, and that’s what Leica users love and demand. They want form AND function and for the tech to get out of the way of the experience. They also want something they’ll want to carry around – something to enjoy rather than something to endure.”

And that’s before you even get around to the issue of image quality.

The review explains they are trying to develop cameras that are attractive to new users, technically up to date, but retain the unique Leica format and image quality. The TL2 appears to have achieved that. On the other hand, the D-Lux6, a rebadged Panasonic, was a complete mistake, the DLux not much better.

At the end of the day, Leica can’t make cameras as fast as they can sell them, so they must be doing something right. The TL2 might not be the best camera in the world, but the M10 might be!
 
I read another interesting article this evening
https://www.35mmc.com/22/08/2016/leica-m8/
The M8, a 10 year old digital with a smaller sensor than a Samsung phone, but a camera still used by many and that will cost you at least £1,300.
This discussion with a non-Leica user, which I’ve just caught up on, simply highlights the differences between Leica/rangefinder and DSLR photography. They are different and there are many photographers who do both.
I ran through the differences in my head and there are so many the idea of listing them, or even the most important, I just can’t be bothered.
 
StevenS said:
Having posted this review, which I thought said a lot about Leica is about, I rather liked the conclusion:

“ With this you enjoy the process largely because it sort of gets out of the way. There’s no fiddling the same as you would with others, and that’s what Leica users love and demand. They want form AND function and for the tech to get out of the way of the experience. They also want something they’ll want to carry around – something to enjoy rather than something to endure.”

And that’s before you even get around to the issue of image quality.

The review explains they are trying to develop cameras that are attractive to new users, technically up to date, but retain the unique Leica format and image quality. The TL2 appears to have achieved that. On the other hand, the D-Lux6, a rebadged Panasonic, was a complete mistake, the DLux not much better.

At the end of the day, Leica can’t make cameras as fast as they can sell them, so they must be doing something right. The TL2 might not be the best camera in the world, but the M10 might be!
Click to expand...

"There's no fiddling.." but the control dials have a sleep function that annoyed the reviewer, the battery leaves a hole in the base when charging and the strap lug is proprietary so anything other than the included rubber strap needs a £65 adaptor.

I get it that you like your M10 too..

StevenS said:
I read another interesting article this evening
https://www.35mmc.com/22/08/2016/leica-m8/
The M8, a 10 year old digital with a smaller sensor than a Samsung phone, but a camera still used by many and that will cost you at least £1,300.
This discussion with a non-Leica user, which I’ve just caught up on, simply highlights the differences between Leica/rangefinder and DSLR photography. They are different and there are many photographers who do both.
I ran through the differences in my head and there are so many the idea of listing them, or even the most important, I just can’t be bothered.
Click to expand...

Hamish who runs 35mmc is a friend of mine so I know the blog. I'm not sure which Samsung phone has a full frame sensor (?) but again, I haven't been talking about the M system or a DSLR? The TL2 is an APS-C mirrorless body and you still seem to be struggling with the fact that not all Leica's are M series rangefinders? Also, I don't need to be a Leica shooter to read reviews or actual camera specifications subjectively. Once you get over the dramatic prose and flair associated with a pro-Leica reviewer, there are actual interesting thoughts on a camera's abilities.

Whilst I don't currently own a rangefinder, I've shot with many different ones (I shoot film for the majority of my photography and many of my cameras are considerably more than 10 years old but still deliver!) and am about to release my own personally designed 4x5 field camera through Kickstarter so I am well aware of the differences in handling between cameras. Thanks for your ongoing advice though.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
"There's no fiddling.." but the control dials have a sleep function that annoyed the reviewer, the battery leaves a hole in the base when charging and the strap lug is proprietary so anything other than the included rubber strap needs a £65 adaptor.

I get it that you like your M10 too..



Hamish who runs 35mmc is a friend of mine so I know the blog. I'm not sure which Samsung phone has a full frame sensor (?) but again, I haven't been talking about the M system or a DSLR? The TL2 is an APS-C mirrorless body and you still seem to be struggling with the fact that not all Leica's are M series rangefinders? Also, I don't need to be a Leica shooter to read reviews or actual camera specifications subjectively. Once you get over the dramatic prose and flair associated with a pro-Leica reviewer, there are actual interesting thoughts on a camera's abilities.

Whilst I don't currently own a rangefinder, I've shot with many different ones (I shoot film for the majority of my photography and many of my cameras are considerably more than 10 years old but still deliver!) and am about to release my own personally designed 4x5 field camera through Kickstarter so I am well aware of the differences in handling between cameras. Thanks for your ongoing advice though.
Click to expand...

I use a film M7 and occasionally medium format with a Bronica. I also use a Leica Q, which is not a rangefinder. It is a thoroughly brilliant camera and I don’t think anyone makes anything quite as good as it.
The M8 has an APS-H CCD sensor, not full frame.
Leica is primarily about lenses, not bodies, the vast majority of Leica users having vastly more invested in lenses than bodies. The TL2 is a lower cost option, but there is no compromise on quality. Obviously the main saving compared to M is the rangefinder mechanism, the complexity of which is such that it takes about 8 hours for a Leica engineer to put one body together. The TL lenses are only about a third less than the M full-frame equivalents.
What is noticeable is that, even though the TL is radically different from M, they have still retained as much of the same layout and functionality common to M, Q and SL. One of the beauties of Leica is this commonality of form and function, so I can use my 2004 film M7 and 2017 digital M10 at the same time and operate them exactly the same. The Q is pretty much the same and they’ve tried to keep that with the TL2.
 
So Neil, you're skipping the TL lenses, then? Do you get magnified focus peaking through the Visoflex?
 
StevenS said:
So Neil, you're skipping the TL lenses, then? Do you get magnified focus peaking through the Visoflex?
Click to expand...
Steve.
I bought the TL 35mm summerlux f1.4 and will use that along with som M lenses.
Yes the focus works by zooming in. ....... very easy to focus the Noctilux:)
 
ndwgolf said:
Steve.
I bought the TL 35mm summerlux f1.4 and will use that along with som M lenses.
Yes the focus works by zooming in. ....... very easy to focus the Noctilux:)
Click to expand...

So that's the standard M mount Summilux with an adaptor ring? Makes more sense than having to build a specific version for the TL I suppose. Isn't there a dedicated T mount Summilux as well though?
 
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stevelmx5 said:
So that's the standard M mount Summilux with an adaptor ring? Makes more sense than having to build a specific version for the TL I suppose. Isn't there a dedicated T mount Summilux as well though?
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No in the picture above it’s a Noctilux 0.95 with an adapter. My summerlux is a 35mm TL f1.4 is the standard prime lens for the TL
Neil
 
ndwgolf said:
I have an SL and tomorrow will get a M10 so I guess I’m covered........ Soo7, SL, M10, TL2 and Nikon D5 if I want to show off
Love
Neil
Click to expand...

I knew I'd seen you somewhere before Neil...

tenor.gif
 
StevenS said:
I read another interesting article this evening
https://www.35mmc.com/22/08/2016/leica-m8/
The M8, a 10 year old digital with a smaller sensor than a Samsung phone, but a camera still used by many and that will cost you at least £1,300.
This discussion with a non-Leica user, which I’ve just caught up on, simply highlights the differences between Leica/rangefinder and DSLR photography. They are different and there are many photographers who do both.
I ran through the differences in my head and there are so many the idea of listing them, or even the most important, I just can’t be bothered.
Click to expand...

Sorry - which Samsung phone has a sensor larger than the M8's?
 
ndwgolf said:
Steve. Nobody has handed me anything. I’ve worked in the Oil and Gas industry for 38 years....... that’s equivalent to spending 19 years in the nick.
I’ve worked hard and I’m enjoying life to the full.......
Thanks

Neil
Click to expand...
I can buy a m10 now if I wanted to but rather get the hasselblad medium x1d
 
ndwgolf said:
Steve. Nobody has handed me anything. I’ve worked in the Oil and Gas industry for 38 years....... that’s equivalent to spending 19 years in the nick.
I’ve worked hard and I’m enjoying life to the full.......
Thanks

Neil
Click to expand...

I didn't say you'd been given anything Neil, it was an attempt at a joke due to you purchasing the entire Leica catalogue but no problem [emoji1303]
 
On paper the Hasselblad seems to offer much more though?

Half the size
50mp sensor vs 37.5mp
Half the price (£7.5k vs £15k)
Multi-point AF
Better high-ISO performance

It appears to be a very good walkabout MF digital but I'm sure that neither of them are particularly lacking for the majority of people who buy them.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Sorry, I didn't look at the image properly [emoji1303]
Click to expand...

I did and almost fell off my chair. Noctilux on TL2? Hence the question about focusing it.

I'd have thought the 23/f2 would be the standard TL2 lens. Much smaller as well.
 
A few images today with the M10 and 50/f1.4 ASPH wide open. It's not the sharpest lens, but I do like what it can do.

M1001783.jpg

M1001813.jpg

M1001798.jpg

M1001808.jpg
 
Leica M10 + 50 Summilux versus Samsung Galaxy Note 8, both at f/2.4 apparently.

Leica-Note-Comparison-50mm-002.jpg


Leica-Note-Comparison-50mm-001.jpg


Some dual lens voodoo going on with the Note 8 and its dual cameras. It doesn't handle flyaway hair very well though.
 
Excellent review, my wife is a Samsung whizz.

Here's one with an M10/50 Lux at f1.8 ISO 2000. I reckon it's a lot more fun tan trying tis with a phone.

M1002213.jpg
 
Just visted this thread for the first time in a while!

Wow what a lot of stuff!

People should love whatever camera they want, and respect the choices of others.

But there’s a few myths here isn’t there?

The 240 MP “you” bought new 12 months, for nigh on £6k, that’s worth about £3.5k now, that’s a fact and that’s called depreciation... so this ‘you never lose money on an M’ it’s just not true (even secondhand M9s have got a bit cheaper since they stopped offering the free sensor), but seriously, get an M240 new today, it’s dropped four figures by the time you’ve taken it home.

By all acconts the M10 is a masterpiece

But not every M was so right no? Again the 240... iirc scroll around the menu with the D pad on the righ, press set with the button on the left.

Put the EVF and multifunctional handgrip on the 240, it’s about as complicated to set up as many of the Japanese cameras, with a lot of menu vists needed

The M8 & 9 have lovely IQ at low ISO, but can’t match modern cameras once the ISO reaches 4 digits

The M240 has a native colour pallet not that dissimilar to all the other 24mp CMOS cameras

Leica has made MASSIVE leaps recently with tech and design, that the M10, Q, SL and TL2 can be compared to similar spec Japanese cameras and hold their ground, especially with ISO (which has always been Leica’s digital achilles heel) is fantastic

But this is a very recent (under 2 years) change.

Most cameras are capable of taking both good and bad images.

To suggest or even hint that any brand can only make great images is, well... let’s just say inaccurate
 
My M10 has been away for 4 weeks now, for vertical alignment calibration - probably longer than I had it in my possession now :( starting to forget I have one..
 
dancook said:
My M10 has been away for 4 weeks now, for vertical alignment calibration - probably longer than I had it in my possession now :( starting to forget I have one..
Click to expand...

Bummer..
 
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