Official Talk Leica thread

[dancook]

Apologies for coming in to the Leica thread with Sony images but they may help

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AijG-NiQf3blhlqjPlWmW3Aoh9jc

I shot a rehearsal from the edge of a small stage, only a few feet away from the actors. I used a 50mm on the M10 (manual focus) that went well. I can't agree that trying to manual focus on someone walking towards you, especially whilst also trying to rack zoom is easier.

Fortunately as you say C-AF in bright day light isn't half bad, so under when the models are under the spotlight I might have a chance. Two shots for every model, just like this.. but with a much shorter runway, and less time between girls oh and less professionalism and desire to get off the stage quickly..



image credit
http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Samant...+2011+12+Little+Joe+Woman+Catwalk/O1nPbtqn4ZW

 

[stevelmx5]

I was shooting with my 85/1.4 so there was no zooming :0)

I can't help think that you're overthinking and worrying too much. I know I've said it before but photographers shoot situations like that every day on a whole variety of gear so there's no reason why the kit you've invested in shouldn't deliver the results.

 

[dancook]

I was shooting with my 85/1.4 so there was no zooming :0)

I can't help think that you're overthinking and worrying too much. I know I've said it before but photographers shoot situations like that every day on a whole variety of gear so there's no reason why the kit you've invested in shouldn't deliver the results.

Yes I worry too much - but I think I've found a solution where I can trust the SL to do the job.

You see, I was watching D5 and A9 focusing videos, and WHILST changing the zoom they were maintaining focus and firing shots off - 99% keeper ratio.

This is my first time using a zoom like this, I can now realise the SL is struggling to get focus whilst in the middle of zooming. If I stop and pause, it gets focus fine on my wife walking towards me, even in a dimly lit lounge. (static - single field focus on face)

I just had to find a technique which worked for my gear.. (i.e. learn to use my gear)

 

[dancook]

New lens arrived today, 75mm 2.0 SL

Louise BW by dancook1982, on Flickr

Yuffie by dancook1982, on Flickr

 

[stevelmx5]

New lens arrived today, 75mm 2.0 SL

Louise BW by dancook1982, on Flickr

Yuffie by dancook1982, on Flickr

Do you feel confident enough with it to shoot the catwalk models?

 

[dancook]

Do you feel confident enough with it to shoot the catwalk models?

I won't use the 75mm, it won't be wide enough

 

[Tobers]

That 75 looks tastyyyyyy!

Your picture of Louise is one of the best you’ve ever taken I think. Love it.

 

[dancook]

That 75 looks tastyyyyyy!

Your picture of Louise is one of the best you’ve ever taken I think. Love it.

it's pretty small for an SL lens as well

 

[dancook]

Contrast detection AF on the SL rears it's ugly head again, shot at 1/50th, f2, ISO2500 - it's dim pub lighting but it's not THAT bad. Field focus which at this distance probably covers the entire eye and eyebrow.

I only shot 6 images. Every shot that actually found focus went to infinity and back first.

A couple of times attempts that hunt about 4-5 times through to infinity and back before I gave up

Patrick - SL Test by dancook1982, on Flickr

it'd be nice if Leica could improve this

 

[stevelmx5]

Contrast detection AF on the SL rears it's ugly head again, shot at 1/50th, f2, ISO2500 - it's dim pub lighting but it's not THAT bad. Field focus which at this distance probably covers the entire eye and eyebrow.

I only shot 6 images. Every shot that actually found focus went to infinity and back first.

A couple of times attempts that hunt about 4-5 times through to infinity and back before I gave up

Patrick - SL Test by dancook1982, on Flickr

it'd be nice if Leica could improve this

I'm guessing that the only way they will improve it is to release a new camera entirely that uses phase detect. Unfortunately it suffers the exact same issues as the original A7 which also has contrast detect only and will never be anything other than pedestrian in lower contrast scenes. That's why I generally use MF lenses instead.

 

[woof woof]

I'm guessing that the one only way they will improve it is to release a new camera entirely that uses phase detect. Unfortunately it suffers the exact same issues as the original A7 which also has contrast detect only and will never be anything other than pedestrian in lower contrast scenes. That's why I generally use MF lenses instead.

I think it's also worth thinking about the final image size and maybe resisting the urge to pixel peep, if you can do that manual focus with peaking can be quite accurate and quite quick to do too.

 

[dancook]

Maybe I should just turn on the AF assist lamp had forgotten about that gem..

it's actually partially blocked by the lens..and this is the smallest lens for the SL

 

[magicolor1]

Maybe I should just turn on the AF assist lamp had forgotten about that gem..

it's actually partially blocked by the lens..and this is the smallest lens for the SL

I hate AF assist lamps - nothing is more guaranteed to put your subject as far from "at ease" as it is possible to get...
Don't have that problem with the Leica M

 

[stevelmx5]

it's actually partially blocked by the lens..and this is the smallest lens for the SL

Either a weird design choice or an assumption that everybody will turn it off! Going to be pretty hard capturing candid's with a bright orange LED in their face

 

[Tobers]

It is rather weird that they went with contrast detect only on a camera positioned as being a professional tool. A 1DX will nail everything every time, and fast too.

 

[Adam Bonn]

It is rather weird that they went with contrast detect only on a camera positioned as being a professional tool. A 1DX will nail everything every time, and fast too.

Possibly they weren’t happy with the IQ using on-sensor PDAF pixels, as (if I understand.....) these don’t record image data and require interpolation from surrounding pixels

Another possibility (but unlikely) is that it’s already got PDAF pixels, but for whatever reason they’ve yet to turn them on. (Fuji are good at this, releasing a FW that apparently adds more PDAF pixels to the sensor!)

 

[stevelmx5]

Possibly they weren’t happy with the IQ using on-sensor PDAF pixels, as (if I understand.....) these don’t record image data and require interpolation from surrounding pixels

Another possibility (but unlikely) is that it’s already got PDAF pixels, but for whatever reason they’ve yet to turn them on. (Fuji are good at this, releasing a FW that apparently adds more PDAF pixels to the sensor!)

From reading reviews and looking at other cameras in their range I'd (personally) be inclined to believe it's more of a cost vs profit reason. Leica already know that they will sell their gear, regardless of the finer details, so as a business if they can release a camera with the same underlying hardware as an early A7 but for premium prices it makes sense. That's no disrespect to those who buy them, just a technical observation as the AF hardware used in the SL has been known about since before it was launched.

 

[Adam Bonn]

I was at home on Tuesday complaining about the rain and 7 deg C temperature

I've had to suddenly travel to the UK, and suddenly I miss that

The Snowy Church by Adam Bonn, on Flickr

 

[magicolor1]

Anybody here use a Leica T? The prices of used ones at MPB are getting so low I'm wondering about picking one up to play with using an M-to-T lens adaptor. Will I regret it?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Either a weird design choice or an assumption that everybody will turn it off! Going to be pretty hard capturing candid's with a bright orange LED in their face

Yea shocking really

 

[stevelmx5]

Anybody here use a Leica T? The prices of used ones at MPB are getting so low I'm wondering about picking one up to play with using an M-to-T lens adaptor. Will I regret it?

Unless you particularly like the design (looks like it will be freezing in the winter and slip out of gloved hands to me), for a similar price I’d personally prefer an A6000. You can still mount the M glass (or any other glass) and have all of the same video features but better high iso performance.

 

[magicolor1]

Unless you particularly like the design (looks like it will be freezing in the winter and slip out of gloved hands to me), for a similar price I’d personally prefer an A6000. You can still mount the M glass (or any other glass) and have all of the same video features but better high iso performance.

Fair point. I’ve never been a fan of Sony cameras, in particular their menu system, but if there’s nothing “special” about the Leica T then it’s probably not worth bothering with. My son’s M8 is currently at Leica in Wetzlar having a shutter fault investigated, so I was looking for something he could use his lenses on in the meantime that might give the same “look” without spending too much.

 

[stevelmx5]

Fair point. I’ve never been a fan of Sony cameras, in particular their menu system, but if there’s nothing “special” about the Leica T then it’s probably not worth bothering with. My son’s M8 is currently at Leica in Wetzlar having a shutter fault investigated, so I was looking for something he could use his lenses on in the meantime that might give the same “look” without spending too much.

I've never personally struggled with the Sony menus and make the majority of changes using the physical controls. Of course, the T doesn't really have many physical controls other than the pair of wheels for controlling Aperture/Shutter/ISO on the top plate then everything else is changed through the touchscreen. Another limitation of the T is that it doesn't have a built in EVF or particularly impressive higher ISO performance (this AP review suggests shooting between 100-400 ISO). The final limitation I can see is that it only uses Contrast Detect AF which, like other cheaper cameras that use the same tech, it will struggle to AF in lower light. Obviously AF isn't a concern if you're using M lenses but for me personally I'd take the better ISO performance, EVF and manual controls of the Sony over the Leica.

 

[Eloise]

Fair point. I’ve never been a fan of Sony cameras, in particular their menu system, but if there’s nothing “special” about the Leica T then it’s probably not worth bothering with. My son’s M8 is currently at Leica in Wetzlar having a shutter fault investigated, so I was looking for something he could use his lenses on in the meantime that might give the same “look” without spending too much.

How about a Fuji X-Pro (1) with the M Mount adaptor? Might give a similar feel to the M8 without spending too much.

 

[magicolor1]

How about a Fuji X-Pro (1) with the M Mount adaptor? Might give a similar feel to the M8 without spending too much.

Yes that might work better - I think I'd prefer that to the Sony.

 

[FruitFlakes]

How about a Fuji X-Pro (1) with the M Mount adaptor? Might give a similar feel to the M8 without spending too much.

I have the XPro1 with an M-mount adapter, and while the combination may look like an an M8 (and it'll make better files), manually focusing is very clunky compared to an actual M camera and you're pretty much forced to use the EVF which isn't great.

 

[magicolor1]

Family shootView attachment 119234

All that lot seems to have appeared in the classifieds except the CL - is that your plan to keep just the one Leica?

 

[dancook]

All that lot seems to have appeared in the classifieds except the CL - is that your plan to keep just the one Leica?

I don't own the CL, that belongs to Mr Tobin - i'm selling everything else though, keeping zero leica

 

[magicolor1]

I don't own the CL, that belongs to Mr Tobin - i'm selling everything else though, keeping zero leica

That's a big change. What precipitated that?

 

[dancook]

That's a big change. What precipitated that?

The A9 (or similar) became a necessity for the photography work I'm doing.

Started selling my Leica SL as a directly competing system - IQ vs Speed - and speed has won, the A9 IQ is still damn good for my needs. Couldn't justify keeping the SL system for that added extra..

That left the M10 and Q - well put a small lens on the A9 and I have a silent super AF street camera.. and now I'm losing any reason to keep the rest of my Leica.

 

[magicolor1]

The A9 (or similar) became a necessity for the photography work I'm doing.

Started selling my Leica SL as a directly competing system - IQ vs Speed - and speed has won, the A9 IQ is still damn good for my needs. Couldn't justify keeping the SL system for that added extra..

That left the M10 and Q - well put a small lens on the A9 and I have a silent super AF street camera.. and now I'm losing any reason to keep the rest of my Leica.

Interesting. I've never really got on with the Sony user interface although I've not tried their latest cameras. I like the minimalist approach of the Leica system although I accept that means many features of competitive systems are simply not available to me, but it makes it easier to just pick up and use. And I still maintain there's something a bit special about the results Good luck with the A9 - I hope it fulfils your requirements.

 

[Tobers]

I had a play with @dancook's brace of Sony A9s and lenses last night. Very very impressive technology. For professional use I think you'll see more pros moving from D5s or 1DXs to A9s as they are extremely competent bits of kit with a number of advantages e.g. WYSIWYG viewfinder, ludicrously fast shutter, tracking seems superb. An A9 is like the total opposite of an M10. For pro work like Dan is doing now, a brace of A9s will definitely do the job.

However, lenses are still full-frame big and there are so many little buttons you really need to know the camera. That's one reason not to use another system, and for Dan just to stick with the two A9s as it means he can get instinctive with them and use them without thinking. That's where you need to get to for professional shooting - you need to immediately be able to get the shot reliably, time after time after time. Having another system as well will just slow that process down.

 

[woof woof]

Interesting. I've never really got on with the Sony user interface although I've not tried their latest cameras. I like the minimalist approach of the Leica system although I accept that means many features of competitive systems are simply not available to me, but it makes it easier to just pick up and use. And I still maintain there's something a bit special about the results Good luck with the A9 - I hope it fulfils your requirements.

Just on the minimalist thing.

I started my journey with fixed lens fixed focus cameras and I used them for something like 30 years and indeed I still have them, I like simply cameras. I've done my time with RF's too. Anyway, Sony and the dreaded interface / menus that seem to upset so many...

I only seem to use the menu for formatting the card and setting the clock and everything else is I think covered by a button or a dial. I shoot in Aperture or Manual mode and just the front and real dials to set the aperture and shutter and the exposure compensation dial is there too. I ignore pretty much all of the rest of the new technology although I do have peaking set and I call up the magnified view for manual focusing. I don't think you can get much simpler than that to pick up and use

 

[Eloise]

That left the M10 and Q - well put a small lens on the A9 and I have a silent super AF street camera.. and now I'm losing any reason to keep the rest of my Leica.

I'm surprised you're selling both the M10 and the Q ... while technically the A9 will do everything ... I got the impression you might enjoy the act of photography more with the M10 / Q.

While I don't know you well enough to say this perhaps ... I suspect a Leica dealer might be welcoming you back into their store in 6-9 months time!

 

[Tobers]

Probablyquite right Eloise. A number of camera shops love Dan!

When you’re getting paid serious £££ to shoot important commissions, it’s less about enjoying the act of photography and more about reliably, always, 100%, getting the shot. For that, you need an A9/D5/1D.

 

[Eloise]

Probablyquite right Eloise. A number of camera shops love Dan!

When you’re getting paid serious £££ to shoot important commissions, it’s less about enjoying the act of photography and more about reliably, always, 100%, getting the shot. For that, you need an A9/D5/1D.

Quite understand that ... as I recall you bought a CL for that reason, separating your paid photography from your photography for enjoyment. Was thinking (from reading Dans previous comments) he’s going to find that too.

 

[Tobers]

That is true actually - the M10 is a beautiful antidote to the high pressure of commercial photography jobs. And you can always get something that looks a bit different with a Leica. Someting more “organic” rather than clinically digital.

 

[StevenS]

I'm surprised you're selling both the M10 and the Q ... while technically the A9 will do everything ... I got the impression you might enjoy the act of photography more with the M10 / Q.

While I don't know you well enough to say this perhaps ... I suspect a Leica dealer might be welcoming you back into their store in 6-9 months time!

I'm finding the M10 a real dream, mostly 50 Lux or 28 Summaron. I've hardly used my Q the last 9 months, but because it is such a stunningly good walkabout do everything camera, I'd not sell it.

Someone tried to nick my phone and M10 off me this weekend and it got dropped. Off to be recallibrated in Germany but otherwise OK. Apparently they may do it for free. That would be nice.

 

[trevorbray]

I'm finding the M10 a real dream, mostly 50 Lux or 28 Summaron. I've hardly used my Q the last 9 months, but because it is such a stunningly good walkabout do everything camera, I'd not sell it.

Someone tried to nick my phone and M10 off me this weekend and it got dropped. Off to be recallibrated in Germany but otherwise OK. Apparently they may do it for free. That would be nice.

Ouch. Glad you had hung onto it. Hope it comes back even better.

 

[Adam Bonn]

A nigh on ten old year old camera design

A “budget” Leica lens

Blown highlights

Yet some how the picture pleases me (ymmv)

Forms of Columbiformes by Adam Bonn, on Flickr

Long live the m9