Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

Cagey75 said:
My laptop is left on pretty much all day, usually sat at the kitchen table so I can have me mugs o' tay while browsing. Even when I'm out it'll stay on as it takes ages to power up, this old dinosaur one at least, my main one is gone for repairs. I'll have a few usual tabs open, this place being one. The odd time my missus [and she's aware I refer to her as such online, she just tuts :D ] walks by, sees the cool blue tones of the forum and just goes "Pff, gear talk again? you're not buying a new camera ..." then walks on :D
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I have my iMac in my room and have all my tabs open. She uses that to watch whatever she watches on YouTube. So she sometimes sees what I was reading on here. She also uses the forums to learn photography when I am not around. So she finds my posts there also :D

But she doesn't mind if I comment on other women and she more often than not discusses it with me. So that's not something that worries me :D
On the odd occasion she sees me on sales thread I get "go out use your gear first" comment :D
 
nandbytes said:
I have my iMac in my room and have all my tabs open. She uses that to watch whatever she watches on YouTube. So she sometimes sees what I was reading on here. She also uses the forums to learn photography when I am not around. So she finds my posts there also :D

But she doesn't mind if I comment on other women and she more often than not discusses it with me. So that's not something that worries me :D
On the odd occasion she sees me on sales thread I get "go out use your gear first" comment :D
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Maybe you should buy her a really great camera if she's interested.
 
twist said:
Maybe you should buy her a really great camera if she's interested.
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You mean like a Nikon Z7? :D

I got her a RX100m3 initially but she found it difficult to learn with that and I found it fiddly too. So I got her a LX100 which has direct controls for everything. The retro style has worked really well as a teaching aid.
 
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Cagey75 said:
From what I've heard it's a completely new sensor, BSI too, which means it should be better in low light. I miss Fuji sometimes, I would have liked the XH1 but it was too pricey for me. Apparently the XT3 will be released cheaper than the XT2 was originally.
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twist said:
Probably and unfortunately Xtrans, its one of their high end model "USPs" that differentiate it from the lower end models they sell.
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Been reading a bit about the XT3 on Fuji rumors, thoughts are that it won't have IBIS. I though this was a standard requirement on mirrorless now? :eek:
 
snerkler said:
Been reading a bit about the XT3 on Fuji rumors, thoughts are that it won't have IBIS. I though this was a standard requirement on mirrorless now? :eek:
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Thought as much, they don't want to hurt their XH1 sales, that will remain their flagship APSC
 
Malfis said:
Can anyone take this seriously?
So many assumptions, and wishful thinking!
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Brand Ambassadors have been proved to be nothing more than Brand Puppets (we knew this already), completely incapable of objective comment. Bloggers are just chasing pages clicks (ie money) and are merely culling information from the same sources as everybody else. They will say anything to attract attention and they add nothing.

The relatively few professional journalists and vloggers who were actually invited to one of the official Nikon launches are the only ones who have both a) used the cameras and b) are in a position to pass objective comment on actual performance because they don't depend on manufacturers for income (at least not directly). Some have been more critical than others, but a common theme is emerging - these cameras are not everything we hoped and expected :(
 
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nandbytes said:
I have my iMac in my room and have all my tabs open. She uses that to watch whatever she watches on YouTube. So she sometimes sees what I was reading on here. She also uses the forums to learn photography when I am not around. So she finds my posts there also :D

But she doesn't mind if I comment on other women and she more often than not discusses it with me. So that's not something that worries me :D
On the odd occasion she sees me on sales thread I get "go out use your gear first" comment :D
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You know what they say about people with Macs? Don’t use flash.:D
 
I think Nikon aimed squarely at the mk2 A7’s and they got it bob on.

Only problem is in the meantime Sony released the significantly better mk3. Whilst the lack of a second card slot has caught the headlines more worrying comments are emerging showing more important aspects like af not being not being great.
 
Brazo said:
I think Nikon aimed squarely at the mk2 A7’s and they got it bob on.

Only problem is in the meantime Sony released the significantly better mk3. Whilst the lack of a second card slot has caught the headlines more worrying comments are emerging showing more important aspects like af not being not being great.
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The problem isn't that they match gen 2 of Sony, the problem is that it's priced like gen 3 Sony and gen 2 Sony is lot cheaper.
 
Brazo said:
I think Nikon aimed squarely at the mk2 A7’s and they got it bob on.

Only problem is in the meantime Sony released the significantly better mk3. Whilst the lack of a second card slot has caught the headlines more worrying comments are emerging showing more important aspects like af not being not being great.
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I can totally see that as development of this would have started a few years ago, but the question is they put dual cards into all their top DSLR from D5 down to D750 and D610, and they must’ve saw the same criticism for lack of dual cards in the Sony so why did they think it would be fine worth just 1?

I don’t get the no space argument because it was a blank slate.

I’m sure it will have it in the mk2 or mk3 but until then, it will have to live with their decision.
 
Brazo said:
I think Nikon aimed squarely at the mk2 A7’s and they got it bob on.

Only problem is in the meantime Sony released the significantly better mk3. Whilst the lack of a second card slot has caught the headlines more worrying comments are emerging showing more important aspects like af not being not being great.
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Why aim at the Mark II when the A9 and A7riii we’re out already weren’t they when Nikon decided they were going to enter the market?
 
snerkler said:
Why aim at the Mark II when the A9 and A7riii we’re out already weren’t they when Nikon decided they were going to enter the market?
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You don't know that. We have no idea how long they have been developing this.
 
snerkler said:
Why aim at the Mark II when the A9 and A7riii we’re out already weren’t they when Nikon decided they were going to enter the market?
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Well R&D would have started years ago. That’s when the specs were decided upon.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I can totally see that as development of this would have started a few years ago, but the question is they put dual cards into all their top DSLR from D5 down to D750 and D610, and they must’ve saw the same criticism for lack of dual cards in the Sony so why did they think it would be fine worth just 1?

I don’t get the no space argument because it was a blank slate.

I’m sure it will have it in the mk2 or mk3 but until then, it will have to live with their decision.
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Having one card really isn’t the biggest issue with these cameras. Matching (perfectly I may add) a last gen camera is.

I’m currently looking to upgrade my D600 and whilst I have no doubt this is the start of the end for F Mount I’m going to have to sink a few k on what is ultimately a dead end system.
 
nandbytes said:
You don't know that. We have no idea how long they have been developing this.
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True, but they did make an announcement that they were going to start to develop a FF mirrorless camera, and I’m sure it was in the last 12 months. The fact that they said they were going to start to develop one suggests to me that they hadn’t already started, and hence why I think it’s been rushed. Of course I don’t know any of this, purely basing it on the comments they made (y)

Edit: just googled and it was back in Feb 2017 they announced it :eek:
 
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Brazo said:
Having one card really isn’t the biggest issue with these cameras. Matching (perfectly I may add) a last gen camera is.

I’m currently looking to upgrade my D600 and whilst I have no doubt this is the start of the end for F Mount I’m going to have to sink a few k on what is ultimately a dead end system.
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That’s the problem, last gen cameras.
 
snerkler said:
Why aim at the Mark II when the A9 and A7riii we’re out already weren’t they when Nikon decided they were going to enter the market?
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If some of the reports are accurate then surely there's no point worrying about the competition when Nikon's existing cameras are out performing them?
 
simonbarker said:
If some of the reports are accurate then surely there's no point worrying about the competition when Nikon's existing cameras are out performing them?
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Tbh I think my gripes often boil down to value for money, such as bringing out 3 year old performance at today’s prices.
 
Any one's flagship model should "ideally" at least match the competition.
Nikon seem happy to aim far lower than this, when it comes to Mirrorless.
I do not think that they have a clue who their audience is likely to be for this offering.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Any one's flagship model should "ideally" at least match the competition.
Nikon seem happy to aim far lower than this, when it comes to Mirrorless.
I do not think that they have a clue who their audience is likely to be for this offering.
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We'll have to wait and see but it is possible that despite what the reviewers and bloggers and people on internet forums may think these cameras will sell very well to the people who don't know or care what we or internet reviewers think and will just see a shiny new Nikon in the shop or on the internet site and buy it.
 
Canon aimed absurdly low with their M range and it still managed to become one of (if not the) biggest selling mirrorless system. A huge, huge chunk of the market will never look beyond Canon, and to a lesser extent Nikon.

A family member asked for advice on a camera for her husband, but she would 'only buy Canon because that's what everyone uses'. I see that repeated over and over again.

Must be depressing for the likes of Fuji, an immense amount of effort put in and the big two can rock up and sell bucket loads on name alone.

Realistically a significant portion of those current DSLR owners are not going to sell everything and switch, Canikon only need a half decent adaptor and it's job done. Us forumites with knowledge of the pros and cons are but a drop in the ocean.
 
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woof woof said:
We'll have to wait and see but it is possible that despite what the reviewers and bloggers and people on internet forums may think these cameras will sell very well to the people who don't know or care what we or internet reviewers think and will just see a shiny new Nikon in the shop or on the internet site and buy it.
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That didn't work for the '1' series though. I'll guess we'll see.

Re dual card slots. It's a colossal misfire from Nikon in my mind, regardless of if they're actually needed or not. Every other high end mirrorless camera from Sony, Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji has them; it ends up being something that differentiates Nikon from everyone else.
 
Maybe the 1 series was a very tough sell no matter what the badge.
 
Make something good enough and cheap enough and it’ll sell :)
 
simonbarker said:
If some of the reports are accurate then surely there's no point worrying about the competition when Nikon's existing cameras are out performing them?
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I don’t think that’s as true as it once used to be, Sony has put pressure on Nikon & Canon to respond.
Nikon was forced to react but their marketing team decided to protect their top end DSLR segment which in my eyes was the wrong move.

The problem is, Nikon also needs to attract new buyers, catering the system for existing Nikon users only means the numbers go from their own DSLR’s to their Nikon Z in most situations.

I think Nikon should have taken the risk and gone all out to make a mirrorless version to beat the competition by some margin including some new unseen features to add USP.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Any one's flagship model should "ideally" at least match the competition.
Nikon seem happy to aim far lower than this, when it comes to Mirrorless.
I do not think that they have a clue who their audience is likely to be for this offering.
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Nikon will launch their flagship mirrorless cameras when they have the workhorse f2.8 zooms to go on them. Stay tuned for the Z8 and Z9 next year. :D
 
ukaskew said:
Canon aimed absurdly low with their M range and it still managed to become one of (if not the) biggest selling mirrorless system. A huge, huge chunk of the market will never look beyond Canon, and to a lesser extent Nikon.

A family member asked for advice on a camera for her husband, but she would 'only buy Canon because that's what everyone uses'. I see that repeated over and over again.

Must be depressing for the likes of Fuji, an immense amount of effort put in and the big two can rock up and sell bucket loads on name alone.

Realistically a significant portion of those current DSLR owners are not going to sell everything and switch, Canikon only need a half decent adaptor and it's job done. Us forumites with knowledge of the pros and cons are but a drop in the ocean.
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I guess from a business perspective it now look like it makes sense because by aiming at the entry level, the lower end of the market they don’t need to be putting into their latest tech, they don’t need to rush R&D and put all the bells and whistles in, let the good stuff brew properly while they dip their toes into the water and see how it goes. If it mirrorless turns out to be a phrase then they and not going to lose too much money, if it sells then they can push forward with what they learn.

As much as flak and they got, like we criticise them for how crap those are, we judge them from £3000 camera perspective and they are not that. A few years have gone now and Sony shows what people want...I am hoping, fingers crossed, they bring out an A73 clone with Canon menus and controls....

But I bet it’ll be hamstrung in some way, but if it’s stupid jpeg codec that’s no bother to me, or no flip out screen, but I feel these 2 are also something people expect now. Good codec with 4K and Canon’s flip out screen on the 6D.
 
Ste_S said:
That didn't work for the '1' series though. I'll guess we'll see.
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woof woof said:
Maybe the 1 series was a very tough sell no matter what the badge.
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I've said it elsewhere but you'll not get far if the Photo Press "slag it off" - Nikon1 Series failed at the hands of said press - basically along the lines of 'you can't get any decent IQ from a sensor that small'. From that moment on it became a hard sell! :(

Have look at the IQ of these and make your own mind up as to whether it was poor IQ or poor reviews that killed it off.
 
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Riz_Guru said:
I don’t think that’s as true as it once used to be, Sony has put pressure on Nikon & Canon to respond.
Nikon was forced to react but their marketing team decided to protect their top end DSLR segment which in my eyes was the wrong move.

The problem is, Nikon also needs to attract new buyers, catering the system for existing Nikon users only means the numbers go from their own DSLR’s to their Nikon Z in most situations.

I think Nikon should have taken the risk and gone all out to make a mirrorless version to beat the competition by some margin including some new unseen features to add USP.
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Not sure about that. Deliberately underperforming all other cameras at the same price level sounds like an extremely high risk strategy to me!

I think the only thing Nikon did to protect their DSLRs was to deliberately leave out the second card slot. A more likely explanation for the sub-par AF performance is that they simply don't have the technology yet to compete with either their own DSLRs or Sony mirrorless.

If they had it it, they'd surely use it and at a stroke they'd convert D750 and D850 sales to Z6 and Z7 (a fair exchange, thanks very much) and they'd simultaneously pull sales away from Canon DSLRs and Sony mirrorless. Job done.

The inevitable conclusion I'm coming to is that Sony has set the AF bar higher than we thought - and all credit to them. I wonder what it's like in the Canon board room this week - are they smiling smugly or rushing to the loo :eek:
 
chuckles said:
I've said it elsewhere but you'll not get far if the Photo Press "slag it off" - Nikon1 Series failed at the hands of said press - basically along the lines of 'you can't get any decent IQ from a sensor that small'. From that moment on it became a hard sell! :(

Have look at the IQ of these and make your own mind up as to whether it was poor IQ or poor reviews that killed it off.
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The difference is I’ve no doubt the IQ from the Z’s will be top notch. For people wanting top quality images then this camera will deliver, if they’re prepared to pay the price.

Looking at what I use my EM1 for (travel and odd day out) I don’t need burst shooting, I don’t need great AF tracking. All I need is a half decent AF system, weather sealing, and good IQ. I bet there’s a huge percentage of shooters that only want this from a camera and couldn’t care less if it can nail 99% of shots of a greyhound running towards them.

Paying £3500 (lens as well) for this though is a very very tough ask. Mind you there’s ‘plenty’ of people buy Leica and the performance of these are some way behind the competition too (I’m in no way suggesting Nikon is in the same league as Leica by the way ;))
 
HoppyUK said:
Not sure about that. Deliberately underperforming all other cameras at the same price level sounds like an extremely high risk strategy to me!

I think the only thing Nikon did to protect their DSLRs was to deliberately leave out the second card slot. A more likely explanation for the sub-par AF performance is that they simply don't have the technology yet to compete with either their own DSLRs or Sony mirrorless.

If they had it it, they'd surely use it and at a stroke they'd convert D750 and D850 sales to Z6 and Z7 (a fair exchange, thanks very much) and they'd simultaneously pull sales away from Canon DSLRs and Sony mirrorless. Job done.

The inevitable conclusion I'm coming to is that Sony has set the AF bar higher than we thought - and all credit to them. I wonder what it's like in the Canon board room this week - are they smiling smugly or rushing to the loo :eek:
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I think it’s more of not having the knowhow rather than deliberately crippling it too (y)
 
Canon has all the tech already pretty much bar a good Eye-AF which tbh, I don't think anyone is expecting Canon to match Sony right out of gate with this. People seems to think their Dual Pixel AF is industry leading when it comes to tracking and focusing, at least for video and it works pretty well when I shoot photos with it with the touch screen. They already have the Flip Screen in the 6D, they have a good implementation of touchscreen, a lot of people actually uses their 1Dx mk2 for video in 4k, they can make a good weather sealing camera. All the pieces are there so they can, if they want to, they can make something that is very attractive to everyone. Throw in a good adaptor to EF lenses which they have experience making already.

p.s. I'll take a slower 2nd card slot over no 2nd card slot any day of the week given the choice.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Canon has all the tech already pretty much bar a good Eye-AF which tbh, I don't think anyone is expecting Canon to match Sony right out of gate with this. People seems to think their Dual Pixel AF is industry leading when it comes to tracking and focusing, at least for video and it works pretty well when I shoot photos with it with the touch screen. They already have the Flip Screen in the 6D, they have a good implementation of touchscreen, a lot of people actually uses their 1Dx mk2 for video in 4k, they can make a good weather sealing camera. All the pieces are there so they can, if they want to, they can make something that is very attractive to everyone. Throw in a good adaptor to EF lenses which they have experience making already.

I'll take a slower 2nd card slot over no 2nd card slot any day of the week.
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If they do I could see myself moving over to the dark side and becoming a Canon shooter :eek: :eek: :eek:

I’d be surprised if Canon didn’t bring something great out at the first time of asking. Eye-AF doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
 
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