Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

[snerkler]

I’ve no idea how the camera will perform. It’s a non-starter for me because of the single card slot.

Without knowing how good the performance is, the single card slot and poor frame rate makes it a non starter for me too.

 

[Cagey75]

This thread is getting seriously ridiculous, I must stop reading it!

What did you expect? The thread title says it all, speculation about something not even released yet, not sure how you imagined it would go.

 

[Cagey75]

Without knowing how good the performance is, the single card slot and poor frame rate makes it a non starter for me too.

It's a non starter for me because of the handicapped IBIS for non native lenses, lag on the touch screen [from what little I've seen, they will surely sort that one] the adapter being an extra £250 or so and the stupidly priced native primes. Looking to the XT3 now ... that won't have IBIS sadly but otherwise sounds promising and it'll be a lot cheaper

 

[Fraser Euan White]

I think your thinking is all over the place, inconsistent and riddled with confirmation bias.

But hey. It’s your money. Buy what you like. Just try to not comment too much on kit you haven’t used in ager.

I am an enthusiast and as such represent the largest market share for a camera company.

I am 'brand loyal' - I like shooting Nikon and want to stay with the 'brand' - probably not that uncommon either?

I like new technology and was considering this new camera from Nikon but if it doesn't suit my needs they DO have a camera that already does (D850).

In fact I probably represent quite a large percentage of consumers that you think are 'inconsistent'.

I have 'used' and handled a Sony, I'm not a professional so don't use a camera 'in anger', I use them for pleasure - if it doesn't even feel right in my hands then it is no good for me; have you picked up a Nikon Z series yet?

 

[Radiohead]

No. Which is why I’m not commenting on the performance.

You’ll note I say extensive use. That’s why I tend to favour fellow pros.

Anyway I’m out. This is a waste of my time.

 

[Cagey75]

No. Which is why I’m not commenting on the performance.

You’ll note I say extensive use. That’s why I tend to favour fellow pros.

Anyway I’m out. This is a waste of my time.

The average enthusiast probably uses their gear a lot more than professionals in more diverse ways too. They're shooting daily, even if it's just some macro in the garden, they are trying new stuff a lot more ... they are not limited by how much they make for doing so, they do it for the pleasure. I'm taking their word over pros most times. Pro does not mean better or more experienced, it simply means they get paid, they have the better business head maybe, but the gear is just tools to them mostly. Of course you can be both, but I imagine many pro shooters just want to put the gear away when they get home after a job

 

[redhed17]

The average enthusiast probably uses their gear a lot more than professionals in more diverse ways too. They're shooting daily, even if it's just some macro in the garden, they are trying new stuff a lot more ... they are not limited by how much they make for doing so, they do it for the pleasure. I'm taking their word over pros most times. Pro does not mean better or more experienced, it simply means they get paid, they have the better business head maybe, but the gear is just tools to them mostly. Of course you can be both, but I imagine many pro shooters just want to put the gear away when they get home after a job

Wow, so many assumptions and generalisations in one paragraph. As with us all, you listen to or not, take notice of or not, whoever you like.

 

[Radiohead]

The average enthusiast probably uses their gear a lot more than professionals in more diverse ways too. They're shooting daily, even if it's just some macro in the garden, they are trying new stuff a lot more ... they are not limited by how much they make for doing so, they do it for the pleasure. I'm taking their word over pros most times. Pro does not mean better or more experienced, it simply means they get paid, they have the better business head maybe, but the gear is just tools to them mostly. Of course you can be both, but I imagine many pro shooters just want to put the gear away when they get home after a job

I should have been more specific - 'fellow wedding pros'.

My point wasn't to disparage amateurs, it was to highlight that a pro is most likely in the opinion of someone with the same use cases when assessing kit. I don't really care about how a camera performs for astro, or landscapes, or wildlife, or what a lens is like at f8, because those aren't my use cases.

So it's wise to look at who's using what and where when weighing it up.

Apologies if that came across as 'amateurs don't count'. It wasn't intended as such.

 

[snerkler]

It's a non starter for me because of the handicapped IBIS for non native lenses, lag on the touch screen [from what little I've seen, they will surely sort that one] the adapter being an extra £250 or so and the stupidly priced native primes. Looking to the XT3 now ... that won't have IBIS sadly but otherwise sounds promising and it'll be a lot cheaper

IF (and it’s a big if and a big doubt) Fuji went back to the Bayer sensor with the XT3 I could be seriously tempted. But this would mean that admitting that the X Trans was a mistake and we all know how stubborn these companies are and how much it’s about saving face

 

[Cagey75]

IF (and it’s a big if and a big doubt) Fuji went back to the Bayer sensor with the XT3 I could be seriously tempted. But this would mean that admitting that the X Trans was a mistake and we all know how stubborn these companies are and how much it’s about saving face

From what I've heard it's a completely new sensor, BSI too, which means it should be better in low light. I miss Fuji sometimes, I would have liked the XH1 but it was too pricey for me. Apparently the XT3 will be released cheaper than the XT2 was originally.

 

[Cagey75]

Wow, so many assumptions and generalisations in one paragraph. As with us all, you listen to or not, take notice of or not, whoever you like.

Of course it's assumptions, what are you? The fact only police?

I should have been more specific - 'fellow wedding pros'.

My point wasn't to disparage amateurs, it was to highlight that a pro is most likely in the opinion of someone with the same use cases when assessing kit. I don't really care about how a camera performs for astro, or landscapes, or wildlife, or what a lens is like at f8, because those aren't my use cases.

So it's wise to look at who's using what and where when weighing it up.

Apologies if that came across as 'amateurs don't count'. It wasn't intended as such.

Nah I didn't get that from it, just saying, amateurs probably do use their gear more, they're more eager to learn being one reason

 

[snerkler]

From what I've heard it's a completely new sensor, BSI too, which means it should be better in low light. I miss Fuji sometimes, I would have liked the XH1 but it was too pricey for me. Apparently the XT3 will be released cheaper than the XT2 was originally.

But is it Bayer or Xtrans?

 

[twist]

But is it Bayer or Xtrans?

Probably and unfortunately Xtrans, its one of their high end model "USPs" that differentiate it from the lower end models they sell.

 

[Cagey75]

But is it Bayer or Xtrans?

Well i always thought 'X-T' stood for X-Trans, but then there's the XT100

 

[f/1.2]

The average enthusiast probably uses their gear a lot more than professionals in more diverse ways too. They're shooting daily, even if it's just some macro in the garden, they are trying new stuff a lot more ... they are not limited by how much they make for doing so, they do it for the pleasure. I'm taking their word over pros most times. Pro does not mean better or more experienced, it simply means they get paid, they have the better business head maybe, but the gear is just tools to them mostly. Of course you can be both, but I imagine many pro shooters just want to put the gear away when they get home after a job

The average enthusiast uses their gear a lot more than professionals

Are you serious No offence but that’s complete nonsense.

While there are many different types of professional photographers just using wedding photographers as an example at times during a wedding they will be shooting natural light portraits, macro for jewellery and details (well I do anyway), sports (well almost, lots of fast paced action going on), studio lighting portraits (sometimes, late in the evening). I would say that’s a pretty wide range of different types of photography all in the one day. I know others who shoot Astro portraits and some of the portraits we would shoot are just landscapes with a couple plonked in their somewhere.

Last year we took around half a million frames would be surprised if there many enthusiasts shooting that amount of frames in a year.

We also shoot some commercial mostly for local businesses for their websites and marketing materials which can involve all sorts of different photography genres.

Away from paid work as photographers we are always looking at trying new things, the majority of the wedding photographers local to me are the same. Everyone is trying to get better and learn new techniques and the commercial photographers I know are just the same.

Yeah there are a few around who only use a camera when they are working and stay true to a strict way of working, same as they have always done but that’s the exception rather than the norm. There are plenty of “enthusiasts” that live for photography then after a couple of years tuck there gear in a cupboard never to be seen again when they move on to other hobbies.

 

[Cagey75]

The average enthusiast uses their gear a lot more than professionals

Are you serious No offence but that’s complete nonsense.

While there are many different types of professional photographers just using wedding photographers as an example at times during a wedding they will be shooting natural light portraits, macro for jewellery and details (well I do anyway), sports (well almost, lots of fast paced action going on), studio lighting portraits (sometimes, late in the evening). I would say that’s a pretty wide range of different types of photography all in the one day. I know others who shoot Astro portraits and some of the portraits we would shoot are just landscapes with a couple plonked in their somewhere.

Last year we took around half a million frames would be surprised if there many enthusiasts shooting that amount of frames in a year.

We also shoot some commercial mostly for local businesses for their websites and marketing materials which can involve all sorts of different photography genres.

Away from paid work as photographers we are always looking at trying new things, the majority of the wedding photographers local to me are the same. Everyone is trying to get better and learn new techniques and the commercial photographers I know are just the same.

Yeah there are a few around who only use a camera when they are working and stay true to a strict way of working, same as they have always done but that’s the exception rather than the norm. There are plenty of “enthusiasts” that live for photography then after a couple of years tuck there gear in a cupboard never to be seen again when they move on to other hobbies.

Yes, I am serious, I also said more varied shooting not the same stuff over and over and over like I'm sure many of you pros do. What's so hilarious? another pro stomping in as if there was some alert light everytime they get a mention now THAT is funny

 

[Radiohead]

You know we do have a special alert light right?

 

[Cagey75]

You know we do have a special alert light right?

I can imagine, it flashes red whenever "pro" is posted on here they seem to come out of nowhere fast.

Anyway, I'm not anti-pro, just saying the enthusiast is probably doing more varied shooting daily. It doesn't matter how many frames, not if it's all the same scenario, like wedding pros, they don't really tend to go landscape shooting or out to the garden for a bit of macro, like I said, the bit that hasn't been nit-picked *yet* - they probably don't even want to look at the gear once they are done for the day. But ... post anything by way of opinion here and you get red alerts popping up the top right corner.

 

[f/1.2]

Yes, I am serious, I also said more varied shooting not the same stuff over and over and over like I'm sure many of you pros do. What's so hilarious? another pro stomping in as if there was some alert light everytime they get a mention now THAT is funny

You have more posts than anyone else on the forum in this thread even though you have said you couldn’t afford to purchase a Z Camera even if it did meet your needs which is a little odd in itself. You seem to be using this thread to try and pick arguments with half of the forum.

You seem to have real issues with people who earn a living from photography, did you ever try and fail to do this yourself? Your posts come across this way, not trying to pick a fight by the way that’s just how you come across.

Anyway I am off out to shoot some stuff for a local B&B for their website. Not the most exciting of jobs but there will be some landscape photography, macro photography and food photography. Hope your out shooting varied things today too.

 

[simonbarker]

Flippin heck - that is a 500g difference! carrying a Pork Pie in me pocket is a bigger difference! Are we men or mice?

No one wants to carry an extra half kilogram for no good reason, you understand that perfectly well so just stop trolling.

 

[Cagey75]

You have more posts than anyone else on the forum in this thread even though you have said you couldn’t afford to purchase a Z Camera even if it did meet your needs which is a little odd in itself. You seem to be using this thread to try and pick arguments with half of the forum.

You seem to have real issues with people who earn a living from photography, did you ever try and fail to do this yourself? Your posts come across this way, not trying to pick a fight by the way that’s just how you come across.

Anyway I am off out to shoot some stuff for a local B&B for their website. Not the most exciting of jobs but there will be some landscape photography, macro photography and food photography. Hope your out shooting varied things today too.

Are you that bored that you're counting? Nobody in here was arguing, weird you would say that as it's been very placid in general. I like chit chatting about new stuff, doesn't matter a damn if I'll buy it or not. It's not that hard get the money if I wanted btw I just have other stuff to be spending it on besides. I plan on buying a new camera soon, by Christmas perhaps, and I always keep my options open. Simple.

Are you half reading to suit yourself for the craic? you seem to do this a lot. Because if you were reading I also just said I'm not anti-pro, I'm actually good friends with a few. I judge people by their personality not what they do for a living, the ones I know are not dicks, some are ... hmm

You're taking offence as if you are the head of the pro-shooter committee where did you come into this exactly? You jumped in to attack my opinion simply because you saw "pro" and nothing more as there was nothing derogatory about it. Now you're inventing arguments that never even existed because you got butt hurt over someone saying enthusiasts probably get out and shoot more, so it is you has the issue. Not I. Seems you take offence to the idea that amateurs might actually be shooting more than you, at least more varied stuff.

Sounds exhilarating ... :sleep: it'll keep you away from starting dumb arguments out of thin air maybe

 

[snerkler]

Probably and unfortunately Xtrans, its one of their high end model "USPs" that differentiate it from the lower end models they sell.

That would be a shame. I’d like to know why they use Xtrans as (from what I’m aware) it offers no benefit over Bayer despite them thinking it would. There are a large portion of Fuji users that prefer the output from the XT100 compared to the Xtrans cameras, and you often hear the comment ‘film like quality’ being used a lot with the XT100.

I’m sure they have their reasons, just like Nikon do making a brand new high end camera with only one card slot

 

[Fraser Euan White]

No one wants to carry an extra half kilogram for no good reason, you understand that perfectly well so just stop trolling.

Trolling! ...............nobody wants to carry an extra Pork Pie but I'm not going to spend £3K not to do so............that's just crazy IMO and an excuse to buy a gadget.

I could loose half a kilo in weight and that would be far more beneficial; that's just how ridiculous this weight saving lark is; a couple of kilo's; yes...........hundreds of grams; you're taking the p***!

If you were a girl I would feel sorry for you - worrying about which handbag to take on a night out because one weighed 500g more - 'I'll have to spend £3K on a new one because it's so tiring carrying that heavy one all night!'

Would you agree with your wife if she used that as an excuse to spend £3K?...........No - I didn't think so because you would say it's utter [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]!

 

[twist]

That would be a shame. I’d like to know why they use Xtrans as (from what I’m aware) it offers no benefit over Bayer despite them thinking it would. There are a large portion of Fuji users that prefer the output from the XT100 compared to the Xtrans cameras, and you often hear the comment ‘film like quality’ being used a lot with the XT100.

I’m sure they have their reasons, just like Nikon do making a brand new high end camera with only one card slot

Woah, just watched the Northrups review, that Z7 AF sucks.

 

[Cagey75]

That would be a shame. I’d like to know why they use Xtrans as (from what I’m aware) it offers no benefit over Bayer despite them thinking it would. There are a large portion of Fuji users that prefer the output from the XT100 compared to the Xtrans cameras, and you often hear the comment ‘film like quality’ being used a lot with the XT100.

I’m sure they have their reasons, just like Nikon do making a brand new high end camera with only one card slot

From the Fuji rumours site:

• stacked sensor (allows fast sensor readout)
• “only” 26MP (not excessively many megapixel means less data to elaborate for the processor)
• new X-Processor

It's a new sensor so hopefully they will have listened to complaints over the years. It's not far off now, so we shall see, by September hopefully

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Why though - if you want a dual write camera (I do) and aren’t interested in video they have just the body - the d850.

It’s an odd decision but they make a great camera that answers all the criticism in this thread - the d850

I stand by my comment but agree if rather buy a Dlsr than this,I think they will lose a lot of sales to Sony

 

[Fraser Euan White]

This is much more positive: (the Northrups have always slated Nikon apart from the D850; if I had £1 for every time they mentioned focus breathing on the 70-200 I would be rich)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhTPepixEAc


...................and shock/horror - he states camera is aimed at the prosumer market!

 

[nandbytes]

Woah, just watched the Northrups review, that Z7 AF sucks.

He claims 7-8 stops stabilization with Sony which is completely a joke! Even Olys don't provide this which have the best IBIS.

edit:
but I am going to test this out with my 70-200GM.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Depends how sloppy you are at holding steady. I can hand hold up to one and a half a second with 35mm Focal length

He claims 7-8 stops stabilization with Sony which is completely a joke! Even Olys don't provide this which have the best IBIS.

 

[nandbytes]

Depends how sloppy you are at holding steady. I can hand hold up to one and a half a second with 35mm Focal length

My handgolding is not bad as for as 1/focal length rule goes. Can easily get sharp shots without stabilisation with a 400mm at 1/400s.

he is claiming he can do what you can do with 35mm but at 200mm instead

 

[twist]

He claims 7-8 stops stabilization with Sony which is completely a joke! Even Olys don't provide this which have the best IBIS.

edit:
but I am going to test this out with my 70-200GM.

But you could see in the sample bursts that the hit rate was low.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

The average enthusiast probably uses their gear a lot more than professionals in more diverse ways too. They're shooting daily, even if it's just some macro in the garden, they are trying new stuff a lot more ... they are not limited by how much they make for doing so, they do it for the pleasure. I'm taking their word over pros most times. Pro does not mean better or more experienced, it simply means they get paid, they have the better business head maybe, but the gear is just tools to them mostly. Of course you can be both, but I imagine many pro shooters just want to put the gear away when they get home after a job

Thiis very true re the pros i know,very gud business people.camera gear as long as it does the job doesn't have to be latest or greatest,just cheapest for doing the job

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Sod the colours I'm getting a Sony

 

[Deleted member 49428]

I am an enthusiast and as such represent the largest market share for a camera company.

I am 'brand loyal' - I like shooting Nikon and want to stay with the 'brand' - probably not that uncommon either?

I like new technology and was considering this new camera from Nikon but if it doesn't suit my needs they DO have a camera that already does (D850).

In fact I probably represent quite a large percentage of consumers that you think are 'inconsistent'.

I have 'used' and handled a Sony, I'm not a professional so don't use a camera 'in anger', I use them for pleasure - if it doesn't even feel right in my hands then it is no good for me; have you picked up a Nikon Z series yet?

Erhmm new old tech, A7(R) II rebottled you mean.

 

[Cagey75]

He claims 7-8 stops stabilization with Sony which is completely a joke! Even Olys don't provide this which have the best IBIS.

The Panasonic G9 claims 6.5 stops, and some EM1 mkII owners claim to be able to hand hold for steady shots up to 6 seconds depending on the lens, more if they find some support, lean against something or whatever

Thiis very true re the pros i know,very gud business people.camera gear as long as it does the job doesn't have to be latest or greatest,just cheapest for doing the job

Yup, that's my experience with any that I know. Some of them do like the gear part of it, but I know some who would rather do anything but take more pictures when they're done doing paid shoots. I don't know why some on here get all heated up as soon as the word 'pro' is mentioned, as if it's a direct insult to them, really strange.

 

[Fraser Euan White]

Oh God................ going to bring the dual memory card slot up again!

I notice that the camera has WiFi functionality and with My D4 I can set up a network to download images to a computer as well as the memory cards; would it not be possible to set up a WiFi network to download images to this as they were captured as a back-up (says it can)?

https://www.wdc.com/en-gb/products/portable-storage/my-passport-wireless-pro.html

 

[Deleted member 49428]

My handgolding is not bad as for as 1/focal length rule goes. Can easily get sharp shots without stabilisation with a 400mm at 1/400s.

he is claiming he can do what you can do with 35mm but at 200mm instead

Maybe he don't drink coffee That part has as much to do with the individual as with the tech.

 

[snerkler]

Oh God................ going to bring the dual memory card slot up again!

I notice that the camera has WiFi functionality and with My D4 I can set up a network to download images to a computer as well as the memory cards; would it not be possible to set up a WiFi network to download images to this as they were captured as a back-up?

https://www.wdc.com/en-gb/products/portable-storage/my-passport-wireless-pro.html

I'd be surprised if you could make it an automatic process, plus transferring large RAW files over wifi is slooooooooowwww

 

[snerkler]

Woah, just watched the Northrups review, that Z7 AF sucks.

It does on that review yeah. I'd be REALLY surprised if it's that bad though, Nikon surely can't release something that bad???? My guess is it's setting, fault, or pre-production crap

 

[Phil V]

Anyway, I'm not anti-pro,

Your posting history tellsits own story

It doesn't matter how many frames, not if it's all the same scenario, like wedding pros, they don't really tend to go landscape shooting or out to the garden for a bit of macro,

As hasalready been posted above, some pros are shooting half a million frames in a year, and despite your blinkers, it’s not of the same stuff either.

I’ll generalise, the vast majority of camera owners don’t even take their cameras out once a month. There’s a smaller number of ‘enthusiasts’ who might use a camera most days, but the ‘average’ amateur is a million miles away from the ‘average pro’ when it comes to actual use of the gear.

Sorry for the delay responding, but as I’m not an actual pro my alert light doesn’t always work