Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

woof woof said:
Ignore what's above then and just look at below and if you do that how is a CSC evf display info different to a DSLR's info?

It's not all over the display, it's just at the top and bottom outside of the image area and you can if you like just ignore the top lot pretty much all together.
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Sorry Alan;
no matter what you say I just dislike the Sony Camera intensely in just about any way, shape or form.
 
redhed17 said:
Has any other manufacturer used your hands for shaping their grip or camera controls? :eek:;)

I've not sure what you would want for an EVF. The DSLR information is not exactly well thought out and has evolved to where everyone does something similar. The EVF's, and to some extent DSLR viewfinders, but especially the EVF should be totally configurable for the info you want, in the positions you want imho.
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Does the Sony's not allow you to configure the EVF? Olympus do to an extent, or at least they have various layouts which change where the info etc is located on the screen.
 
Does anyone know why the 50mm f1.8 is £600, especially when the f-mount is under £200? Are the internals made of gold? ;)
 
My guess is a new design that needs to recoup costs.

The old AFD isn’t a great lens and with mirrorless allowing edge AF points would most likely give a poor showing, especially on the Z7.
 
SFTPhotography said:
Why though - if you want a dual write camera (I do) and aren’t interested in video they have just the body - the d850.

It’s an odd decision but they make a great camera that answers all the criticism in this thread - the d850
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Anyone who wanted a D850 either has one already or they are also looking at the alternatives . The answer is not get a D850 if you want dual slots, it's look at alternatives that are already lighter and mirrorless with all the trimmings. What they did was make Sony all the more attractive
 
snerkler said:
Does anyone know why the 50mm f1.8 is £600, especially when the f-mount is under £200? Are the internals made of gold? ;)
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Probably because the 'old' 50mm lens was sold as a 'standard' lens and made in vast quantities, nowadays a 50mm lens isn't seen as 'standard' and won't me made/sold in nearly the numbers the old lens was. (scale of economies)
 
Fraser Euan White said:
I 'get' some of the advantages/disadvantages of mirror-less but I really don't get this weight saving lark between FF mirror-less and DSLR - it's next to FA with the lenses attached! Further to this something like the Sony is no where near as comfortable to hold as the grip is so small.
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If I grab an A73 with 35mm it's 770g, if I grab a D810 with a 35mm it's 1280g. I think you might notice when something is 60% heavier in hand and if you use a mirrorless body for a while it can make medium/large DSLR's feel needlessly big in hand.

So if you plan to use the same large aperture or large/heavy telephotos then no you're probably not going to find any weight/size benefit, especially so with large telephotos where a small body can be a hindrance but that's ignoring some of the other options those new mirrorless systems give you, you do have more options for high quality, lighter and smaller setups.

Given the choice I'd have Nikon, Sony etc offer different size bodies for different ranges as this could be something to further differentiate mirrorless from their existing DSLR ranges, the technology offers the option of small bodies, for the people who want/need it give them some choices without upsetting people who want/need larger ones. Using Sony as an example I think it was a mistake not to make the A9 a larger camera given its target market but I think they got it more or less right for the A73.
 
simonbarker said:
There's not much to be gained from banging on about its lack of a second slot but Nikon does deserve a lot of criticism for the decision, look how much negativity it's caused.



The 6DII was one of the most heavily criticized cameras I can think of.



Nikon has always had crazy accessory prices but I think you're rather missing the point, $300 to keep using your existing lenses or any 'legacy' lenses is a bargain, just look how much a Metabones EF to E costs yet people buy them.
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If the 6D II was the most heavily criticized for camera ever I never felt any if the fuss about it until I actually started to look into it. It certainly wasn't a general moan across forums, nobody was losing sleep over it, it wasn't major news. So why is this? The adapter at 300 is the stupidest idea in all of this, current F mount lens owners were looking for a smooth transition, not a sneaky extra 300 onto thw already high cost for what you're getting
 
Cagey75 said:
Anyone who wanted a D850 either has one already or they are also looking at the alternatives . The answer is not get a D850 if you want dual slots, it's look at alternatives that are already lighter and mirrorless with all the trimmings. What they did was make Sony all the more attractive
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I doubt many D850 owners are really considering this silly little thing when they have the best 35mm camera on sale.
 
Cagey75 said:
Anyone who wanted a D850 either has one already or they are also looking at the alternatives . The answer is not get a D850 if you want dual slots, it's look at alternatives that are already lighter and mirrorless with all the trimmings. What they did was make Sony all the more attractive
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I don't agree Keith - the D850 is the best landscape/product/portrait camera bar none; non of the advantages/disadvantages of mirror-less help in this matter. Imagine taking 'an alternative' out in all weathers - it might dissolve!

I haven't purchased a D850 yet and if I decide to change camera because I want a new toy it will be either a Z series or a D850.
 
KavKav said:
The thing with ‘Like it or not’ is those who do ‘not’ are less likely to buy.

IMHO this ‘Z’ has been ill thought out and rushed to market. Relying on the Nikon name to treat customers as beta testers who should do as they are told and slavishly follow the direction of the Nikon marketing drones and their beancounters and just shell out the cash simply does not fly nowadays. For me, a single card slot with a expensive and very lumpy adaptor to use my Nikon glass on a new body at a very inflated price? Nikon can stick that one in their ass and that is from a guy who has been ‘Nikon’ for over 40 years!
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I reckon, and it is just my opinion, that far more potential buyers care more about the other flaws than the dual card slot thing. I can't see why anyone outside of pro wedding or major event photographers gives a rat's tbh. How often do you actually use that second card? It's called redundant because it's never used :D

So many worse issues with these new cameras
 
Fraser Euan White said:
I don't agree Keith - the D850 is the best landscape/product/portrait camera bar none; non of the advantages/disadvantages of mirror-less help in this matter. Imagine taking 'an alternative' out in all weathers - it might dissolve!

I haven't purchased a D850 yet and if I decide to change camera because I want a new toy it will be either a Z series or a D850.
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SO what? You think it's landscape photographers who are looking at the Z twins? I doubt it. The only other option is not the D850. Why do you lot think it's Nikon or nowt here? Sony are laughing their asses off meanwhile
 
Cagey75 said:
If the 6D II was the most heavily criticized for camera ever I never felt any if the fuss about it until I actually started to look into it. It certainly wasn't a general moan across forums, nobody was losing sleep over it, it wasn't major news. So why is this?
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That's true of most things though, if you're there for launch and seeing all the first reactions you're going to see a lot of passion and overreactions you wouldn't otherwise be aware of.

Nikon kept us waiting a month with this stupid launch, if they'd made it half the time and better set expectations I don't think we'd be seeing so much complaining. Expectations were high.

Cagey75 said:
The adapter at 300 is the stupidest idea in all of this, current F mount lens owners were looking for a smooth transition, not a sneaky extra 300 onto thw already high cost for what you're getting
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It's not that much for what you're getting especially by Nikon standards but if $300 to retain use of all those lenses is too much you shouldn't be considering either Z series camera.
 
simonbarker said:
It's not that much for what you're getting especially by Nikon standards but if $300 to retain use of all those lenses is too much you shouldn't be considering either Z series camera.
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It's a lot when many thought the adapter was included in the box, i see that alone turning many off and sticking with their D750 or whatever
 
snerkler said:
I can't get my noodle round why IBIS is affected by lenses, it just doesn't make sense to me. The fact it's called IN BODY image stabilisation implies to me that it has noting to do with the lens, and is controlled by the body. Therefore I would expect it to behave exactly the same no matter what you stick on the front. Can anyone explain this to me?
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It seems like a forced restriction, or the body doesn't have 5-axis to begin with! the Z lenses take care of 2 axis? Then it's a false claim, and they know they would be found out. It's more likely an intentional restriction then to get people to buy the Z-specific lenses, which is as bad as charging 300 for the adapter on top of what is now looking to be an over priced camera. I think they lost a tonne of sales overnight tbh, I don't think these cameras are ever going to be classics or must haves.
 
Cagey75 said:
Anyone who wanted a D850 either has one already or they are also looking at the alternatives . The answer is not get a D850 if you want dual slots, it's look at alternatives that are already lighter and mirrorless with all the trimmings. What they did was make Sony all the more attractive
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You said the above...............and I replied stating I haven't got a D850 yet and I wasn't going to look at an alternative - I would either get a Z series or D850, therefore I proved your comment wrong!

Cagey75 said:
SO what? You think it's landscape photographers who are looking at the Z twins? I doubt it. The only other option is not the D850. Why do you lot think it's Nikon or nowt here? Sony are laughing their asses off meanwhile
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Again, previous comment show this is wrong as well :-)

For me..........and I'm sure many others I would stick with Nikon; I'm in no desperate rush for mirror-less most of it is hype anyway compared to DSLR.
 
Fraser Euan White said:
the D850 is the best landscape/product/portrait DSLR bar none.
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Corrected that for you.

Fraser Euan White said:
Imagine taking 'an alternative' out in all weathers - it might dissolve!
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From a mate of mine who shoots racing for a living:

"Interesting being in the media centre at York races this week - both the Canon and Nikon racing photography figure heads have now switched to Sony A9's with the release of the 400 f2.8. All the Getty photographers looking to move to Sony with the next revolution of changes. By the next big sporting event (Olympics, World Cup) they reckon you'll see a majority of non-Canon/non-Nikon lenses shooting."

The reality is that plenty of field-based photographers are using Sony A9 bodies with no weather issues. The echo-chamber of the internet simply regurgitates this (like Sony colour being crap) often enough that it then becomes 'fact'.

I tend to take my readings from fellow pros who do this for a living rather than internet 'fact'.
 
Fraser Euan White said:
No :) but the Nikon cameras I have had all seem extremely comfortable to hold & use. Likewise their optical viewfinders have the info at the bottom and up the right hand side which really suits me. EVF may have advantages but I have yet to find one I like - they still must have a refresh rate and I am still convinced that is what gives me a headache when I look at one for anything over five minutes; I just don't suffer the same with OVF.
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The reason I had a Nikon DSLR rather than a Canon was because of the feel in the hand. The D70 felt good, the D200 better and the D300S felt like it was designed for my hand. :D The D500 is a step back for me.

Fraser Euan White said:
The Japanese have never been strong on ergonomics in anything - they just like giving loads of info with flashing lights where as Nikon seemed different.
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Are Nikon not Japanese now! :thinking: ;)
 
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Fraser Euan White said:
You said the above...............and I replied stating I haven't got a D850 yet and I wasn't going to look at an alternative - I would either get a Z series or D850, therefore I proved your comment wrong!



Again, previous comment show this is wrong as well :)

For me..........and I'm sure many others I would stick with Nikon; I'm in no desperate rush for mirror-less most of it is hype anyway compared to DSLR.
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There is no wrong here, are you desperate to be right or something? It's all merely opinions. It has started to become the defenders vs the critics on these cameras. There are those who are making excuses already because they had intended to buy it.
 
Cagey75 said:
I reckon, and it is just my opinion, that far more potential buyers care more about the other flaws than the dual card slot thing. I can't see why anyone outside of pro wedding or major event photographers gives a rat's tbh. How often do you actually use that second card? It's called redundant because it's never used :D

So many worse issues with these new cameras
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I use it all the time for piece of mind :p
Fraser Euan White said:
Flippin heck - that is a 500g difference! carrying a Pork Pie in me pocket is a bigger difference! Are we men or mice?
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TBH when I’m out sightseeing I would notice that after a full day carrying around :oops: :$
 
Cagey75 said:
300 for the adapter on top of what is now looking to be an over priced camera.
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I think the adapter are about £/$250 and can be had for almost half of that if bought with the camera, which a lot may do. Looking at the price of some of the lens adapters and the Nikon's seem like a good deal. ;) It is not like anyone is forcing anyone to buy them btw.
 
redhed17 said:
I think the adapter are about £/$250 and can be had for almost half of that if bought with the camera, which a lot may do. Looking at the price of some of the lens adapters and the Nikon's seem like a good deal. ;) It is not like anyone is forcing anyone to buy them btw.
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That's a weak argument, nobody is forcing them ... many potential buyers will want to use their existing glass. Asking $300 or close to is like punishing them for wanting to do so. Nobody asked Nikon to make a completely new mount.

You can get AF adapters for Sony to use Canon glass for as little as £40 ...
 
SFTPhotography said:
I use it as a back up - if one card fails in the field - I have the images backed up. Having experienced a card failure and the loss of images from a long hike in the snow I wasn't keen to repeat the exercise.
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Was it the card or camera that failed though?
 
Cagey75 said:
There is no wrong here, are you desperate to be right or something? It's all merely opinions. It has started to become the defenders vs the critics on these cameras. There are those who are making excuses already because they had intended to buy it.
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Agree with this and is why I said this a bit ago after several 'flaws' may have surfaced:

Fraser Euan White said:
Yeap - probably give mirror-less a miss for the time being. Better to get a D850.
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.............but apparently i'm entrenched in a position and a bit daft because I don't like the Sony?
 
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Fraser Euan White said:
Agree with this and is why I said this a bit ago after several 'flaws' my have surfaced:



.............but apparently i'm entrenched in a position and a bit daft because I don't like the Sony?
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So why don't you already have the D850? or if that's too expensive the older D800/810? if it's just high res you're after, they have been there a long time
 
Cagey75 said:
Was it the card or camera that failed though?
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The card - had I used the dual write I would have the images backed up. I appreciate XQD is a more reliable system than SD or CF - but still - I would feel more comfortable with a camera that had two slots - and given its nigh on £3k it's not unreasonable to expect that.
 
Radiohead said:
Entrenched because you’re a bit one-eyed regarding mirrorless.
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Is there something that wrong with preferring to shoot a DSLR with an optical viewfinder compared to a Mirrorless camera?

Considering I also stated that I would purchase a Z series camera several pages ago I don't know how you have come to this conclusion apart from the fact I don't like the Sony?
 
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SFTPhotography said:
This - I have the D810, well two of them, and a D800. I would love a D850 but I would want 2 or maybe 3 so its a £9k job LOL. The res is really good but I know the D850 is a leap on again
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I had a D800E for about 5yr, loved it but ... felt like it was a bit of a waste on me. I don't really do much landscape, I think I made mistakes on the lenses I chose for it too. All big and hefty, was carrying around 10kg [inc the bag] most of the time. I needed to go lighter for health reasons, and I know some hate hearing that and think it's nonsense, but it's not to the person with a duffed back or other injuries. I do miss it sometimes when i look back at the images I shot with it, and at the time if I had more sense, a bunch of light primes would have been the best option for me. If I ever did get hold of a D850 somehow, that is what I would do, get a trio of nice light primes.
 
Cagey75 said:
That's a weak argument, nobody is forcing them ... many potential buyers will want to use their existing glass. Asking $300 or close to is like punishing them for wanting to do so. Nobody asked Nikon to make a completely new mount.

You can get AF adapters for Sony to use Canon glass for as little as £40 ...
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People wanted Nikon to be competitive with their mirrorless cameras and they felt the need to change the mount to do that. Once that decision is made you either jump on board through the rocky transition or wait for it to mature. Just another choice when choosing a camera system, as are the other costs involved.

How many options did Sony give with the E mount? :thinking: Do they have an adapter to work with their older lenses? Let's see how much it is. How many options were available when Canon changed to their EF mount all those year ago? Changing a mount is a huge step, and Nikon have managed pretty well imho. 90 fully compatible lenses via the adapter and a couple of hundred more with limited compatibility. Paying for an adapter for any lenses you may have or any of those lenses that you don't, is for each new owners to choose. They will benefit from buying at the same time as the camera if they do want it. :)
 
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Fraser Euan White said:
Is there something that wrong with preferring to shoot a DSLR with an optical viewfinder compared to a Mirrorless camera?

Considering I also stated that I would purchase a Z series camera several pages ago I don't know how you have come to this conclusion apart from the fact I don't like the Sony?
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I think your thinking is all over the place, inconsistent and riddled with confirmation bias.

But hey. It’s your money. Buy what you like. Just try to not comment too much on kit you haven’t used in ager.
 
Cagey75 said:
Look around you, seems to me like everyone is ranting atm about gear they haven't used. This whole thread is about just that.
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I’ve no idea how the camera will perform. It’s a non-starter for me because of the single card slot.
 
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