Nikon D7xxx owners thread

A quickie from this morning walk

ISO 2200 - Nikon 300mm PF @f8

SIJ_15.jpg
 
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The morning Baguette

Not enough headroom - but I only got one shot as I stopped the car with the 300mm PF

ISO 1600

SIJ_18.jpg
 
PaulButler said:
I'd have used the brakes Bill ;)

Image looks good for ISO1600 :)
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Yep, the D7200 is good for general stuff, (most of what maybe other people take), at high ISO ............ but I still cannot sort out small bird crops at anything over ISO400/ISO800 ....... they are just hit or miss noise-wise, generally a big miss for me
 
BillN_33 said:
Yep, the D7200 is good for general stuff, (most of what maybe other people take), at high ISO ............ but I still cannot sort out small bird crops at anything over ISO400/ISO800 ....... they are just hit or miss noise-wise, generally a big miss for me
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Hi,

I am finding the noise on the D7200 on big crops acceptable, it's not great but is ok as long as you don't pixel peep. I do find that you have to use noise reduction in post processing though. These shots range from ISO 4000- 6400... D7200 with Sigma 150-600. All at 600mm f8. All fairly heavy crops and all with the all important noise reduction applied...

Chaffinch by WillWA, on Flickr
Greater Spotted Woodpecker by WillWA, on Flickr
Black Bird by WillWA, on Flickr
 
WWA said:
Hi,

I am finding the noise on the D7200 on big crops acceptable, it's not great but is ok as long as you don't pixel peep. I do find that you have to use noise reduction in post processing though. These shots range from ISO 4000- 6400... D7200 with Sigma 150-600. All at 600mm f8. All fairly heavy crops and all with the all important noise reduction applied...

Chaffinch by WillWA, on Flickr
Greater Spotted Woodpecker by WillWA, on Flickr
Black Bird by WillWA, on Flickr
Click to expand...





I think that it depends on the light and background - sometimes it's OK many times I find it noisy

what I would also say, as before the D7200 I had a D7100 and a D7000 ....... as far as acceptable noise is concerned on crops of bird shots at higher ISO's I do not see any improvement in the D7200 over the D7100, which I suppose surprised me. I do use the DX Body quite a lot and I can see that the D7200 is fast and good ...... most of my shots are taken using single cell focus
 
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BillN_33 said:
I think that it depends on the light and background - sometimes it's OK many times I find it noisy

what I would also say, as before the D7200 I had a D7100 and a D7000 ....... as far as acceptable noise is concerned on crops of bird shots at higher ISO's I do not see any improvement in the D7200 over the D7100
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Yes back ground is a huge factor. Fair enough, I only have had D5200 and D90 previously so D7200 bound to be an improvement.
 
BillN_33 said:
I think that it depends on the light and background - sometimes it's OK many times I find it noisy

what I would also say, as before the D7200 I had a D7100 and a D7000 ....... as far as acceptable noise is concerned on crops of bird shots at higher ISO's I do not see any improvement in the D7200 over the D7100, which I suppose surprised me. I do use the DX Body quite a lot and I can see that the D7200 is fast and good ...... most of my shots are taken using single cell focus
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That's exactly the same as I feel. Having come from the d7000 to d7200, I'm noticing very little if any improvement on noise at anything above say 400 ISO. It's really disappointed me and I'm thinking I'll either get the d500 when it comes out (depending on noise levels) or maybe a d810/d850 (if that really is coming out this year) and crop to get the 1.5x crop factor back.

@WWA your shots look good and you're right there's little noise there, but it looks like these are relatively close and not huge crops as you've said. This was a 100% crop and you can see that there's a lot of noise in both background and bird. Of course I can use NR but that reduces feather detail which is something I don't want. If you're happy with it coming from a cheaper body that's good :) but to me (and evidently Bill) it's just not good enough.

Curlew_Noise by Chris Cotton, on Flickr
 
I went D7000, D7100 and then D7200. The jump from 7000 to 7100 left me disappointed but I find the D7200 much better - really think Nikon should have completely skipped the 7100.
Very happy with results from the 7200 and don't think I'll change any time soon (can't justify a D500 unfortunately).
 
JulesP said:
I went D7000, D7100 and then D7200. The jump from 7000 to 7100 left me disappointed but I find the D7200 much better - really think Nikon should have completely skipped the 7100.
Very happy with results from the 7200 and don't think I'll change any time soon (can't justify a D500 unfortunately).
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I've got a 7000 and may consider a 7200 at some point. Will probably wait until the D500 comes out and see if there's any bargains available on the 7200.
 
WWA said:
Hi,

I am finding the noise on the D7200 on big crops acceptable, it's not great but is ok as long as you don't pixel peep. I do find that you have to use noise reduction in post processing though. These shots range from ISO 4000- 6400... D7200 with Sigma 150-600. All at 600mm f8. All fairly heavy crops and all with the all important noise reduction applied...

Chaffinch by WillWA, on Flickr
Greater Spotted Woodpecker by WillWA, on Flickr
Black Bird by WillWA, on Flickr
Click to expand...
Which sigma lens? C or S?
 
WWA said:
Hi,

I am finding the noise on the D7200 on big crops acceptable, it's not great but is ok as long as you don't pixel peep. I do find that you have to use noise reduction in post processing though. These shots range from ISO 4000- 6400... D7200 with Sigma 150-600. All at 600mm f8. All fairly heavy crops and all with the all important noise reduction applied...

Chaffinch by WillWA, on Flickr
Greater Spotted Woodpecker by WillWA, on Flickr
Black Bird by WillWA, on Flickr
Click to expand...

htid said:
That's exactly the same as I feel. Having come from the d7000 to d7200, I'm noticing very little if any improvement on noise at anything above say 400 ISO. It's really disappointed me and I'm thinking I'll either get the d500 when it comes out (depending on noise levels) or maybe a d810/d850 (if that really is coming out this year) and crop to get the 1.5x crop factor back.

@WWA your shots look good and you're right there's little noise there, but it looks like these are relatively close and not huge crops as you've said. This was a 100% crop and you can see that there's a lot of noise in both background and bird. Of course I can use NR but that reduces feather detail which is something I don't want. If you're happy with it coming from a cheaper body that's good :) but to me (and evidently Bill) it's just not good enough.

Curlew_Noise by Chris Cotton, on Flickr
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The thing is you are not comparing similar situations. The photos by WWA although high ISO due to the high shutter speed and f8 aperture look like they are taken in ok light (and a good example why iso6400 isn't so bad on a d7200 in the right light) and close, whereas htid curlew looks to be in poor light and a heavy crop due to distance. In good light I would expect you could push ISO to 6400, I did on the d7100, I've not yet had time to really test the d7200 but I expect it will perform as well as the d7000/d7100. I would only expect there to be a 1/3 stop improvement max between the d7000-d7200, the improvements are in other areas rather than the sensor technology. These are model upgrades rather than completely new models like the change from d90 to d7xxx and d700 to d800. The difference in ISO performance between dx and fx is I think around one stop. When the d500 is out I really don't expect much ISO improvement over the d7200, I think some will be disappointed.

If you want great ISO performance in low light then full frame is the way and also don't crop. A few months ago I was on a hedgehog workshop with my d750 where like was poor, I was shooting at f2.8-4, 1/200 and iso3200 all day. The light was pushing the d750 so there wasn't the possibility to crop. One thing I learn a year ago is you can't expect great detail if you are not close to the subject. Since working this out my images have improved.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I've got a 7000 and may consider a 7200 at some point. Will probably wait until the D500 comes out and see if there's any bargains available on the 7200.
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That's definitely the right idea, there will be a few that jump and sell their d7200. For me a used d7200 for £400 (that's possible as that's what I recently paid for a used one) is an absolute bargain compared to £1700 for the d500 when the d7200 will be plenty for many. That's more than enough left over for a used 70-200 f2.8 VR2!
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
I've got a 7000 and may consider a 7200 at some point. Will probably wait until the D500 comes out and see if there's any bargains available on the 7200.
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I would think that the D500 will be a great camera, I had the D300 and was very happy with that when it came out, waited years for the D400 but it never came out,the D7000 wasn't a good replacement in my views, a good camera
but not a D400, so its about time we had the 500, just hope it delivers the goods..
 
I've just been looking at the dxo Mark ISO scores for the d7xxx series it seems there is only a small increase:

D7000 1167ISO
D7100 1256ISO
D7200 1333ISO

That's an increase of 166 ISO overall, or d7000 to d7100= 89 ISO and d7100 to d7200= 77 ISO.

If you compare that to a d750 that scores 2956 ISO you can see the difference. Although comparing the d750 to a d610 (2925 ISO) which is what it really replaced there was an increase of only 31!! The jump from the d700 (2303 ISO) to the newer d610/d750 technology was just over 600 ISO.

I think we would be expecting too much if we wanted a larger ISO increase on a crop body with only a few years between them, especially with heavy crops.
 
mark richards said:
I would think that the D500 will be a great camera, I had the D300 and was very happy with that when it came out, waited years for the D400 but it never came out,the D7000 wasn't a good replacement in my views, a good camera
but not a D400, so its about time we had the 500, just hope it delivers the goods..
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I think it will deliver and be a worthwhile upgrade for d300 users, but I do wonder if d7100/d7200 users will see as much an upgrade other than AF and buffer.
 
rob-nikon said:
I think it will deliver and be a worthwhile upgrade for d300 users, but I do wonder if d7100/d7200 users will see as much an upgrade other than AF and buffer.
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I would think, that when the D400 never came, a lot jumped ship,i had a little tipple but didn't like the layout of canon or feel of the camera..perhaps this will tempt them back?
 
Well looks like I am back to being a D7000 owner! Tried a Panasonic G6 for a year as the idea of less weight and more inconspicuous body of 4/3rds system too my fancy but no matter how much I tried I just couldn't get on with the smaller body, it just felt like a toy in my hands and was forever hitting buttons and adjusting things by accident ruining my photo's.

Ordered myself a used Nikon 16-85mm DX lens as well. Just need to wait for payday to get a new tripod and a circular polariser filter
 
ian-83 said:
Well looks like I am back to being a D7000 owner! Tried a Panasonic G6 for a year as the idea of less weight and more inconspicuous body of 4/3rds system too my fancy but no matter how much I tried I just couldn't get on with the smaller body, it just felt like a toy in my hands and was forever hitting buttons and adjusting things by accident ruining my photo's.

Ordered myself a used Nikon 16-85mm DX lens as well. Just need to wait for payday to get a new tripod and a circular polariser filter
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I know what you mean. I had an Olympus Pen for a while. Just too small and fiddly, but not small enough to be a compact camera. Got myself a brand new D7000 for a bargain price last year. Lovely camera and the right size for my fat fingers.
 
ian-83 said:
Well looks like I am back to being a D7000 owner! Tried a Panasonic G6 for a year as the idea of less weight and more inconspicuous body of 4/3rds system too my fancy but no matter how much I tried I just couldn't get on with the smaller body, it just felt like a toy in my hands and was forever hitting buttons and adjusting things by accident ruining my photo's.

Ordered myself a used Nikon 16-85mm DX lens as well. Just need to wait for payday to get a new tripod and a circular polariser filter
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I had a G3 and sold it for the same reason, and bought a 7000
 
It just feels right doesn't it, compared to the smaller camera styles. If you're going bigger than a compact you might as well get a good handful!
And I love the sound!
Oh, and the photos too!!
 
rob-nikon said:
The thing is you are not comparing similar situations. The photos by WWA although high ISO due to the high shutter speed and f8 aperture look like they are taken in ok light (and a good example why iso6400 isn't so bad on a d7200 in the right light) and close, whereas htid curlew looks to be in poor light and a heavy crop due to distance. In good light I would expect you could push ISO to 6400, I did on the d7100, I've not yet had time to really test the d7200 but I expect it will perform as well as the d7000/d7100. I would only expect there to be a 1/3 stop improvement max between the d7000-d7200, the improvements are in other areas rather than the sensor technology. These are model upgrades rather than completely new models like the change from d90 to d7xxx and d700 to d800. The difference in ISO performance between dx and fx is I think around one stop. When the d500 is out I really don't expect much ISO improvement over the d7200, I think some will be disappointed.

If you want great ISO performance in low light then full frame is the way and also don't crop. A few months ago I was on a hedgehog workshop with my d750 where like was poor, I was shooting at f2.8-4, 1/200 and iso3200 all day. The light was pushing the d750 so there wasn't the possibility to crop. One thing I learn a year ago is you can't expect great detail if you are not close to the subject. Since working this out my images have improved.
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Maybe I'm expecting too much then as I want to be able to heavily crop in not great light and have virtually no noise. I accept that the d500 probably won't be what I want it to be which is why I said maybe I'll look at a d810 or d850 if that really is coming out (rather than just rumours).

Trouble is yoh can't always get close enough to a subject. A lot of the time my only chance to get out anywhere is to go to reserves where there are hides so I'm stuck with the distance the birds are from me. Of course I could get a 600mm lens with tc and increase that way but an f4 version is way above my price range so I'm stuck with what I have.
 
htid said:
Maybe I'm expecting too much then as I want to be able to heavily crop in not great light and have virtually no noise. I accept that the d500 probably won't be what I want it to be which is why I said maybe I'll look at a d810 or d850 if that really is coming out (rather than just rumours).

Trouble is yoh can't always get close enough to a subject. A lot of the time my only chance to get out anywhere is to go to reserves where there are hides so I'm stuck with the distance the birds are from me. Of course I could get a 600mm lens with tc and increase that way but an f4 version is way above my price range so I'm stuck with what I have.
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The D750 will do what you want, and the D810

ideally the D750 with more FPS and a better buffer would fit the bill
 
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BillN_33 said:
The D750 will do what you want, and the D810

ideally the D750 with more FPS and a better buffer would fit the bill
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Except the d750 has about the same MP as the d7200 but without the 1.5 crop :/ the d810 is nearly good enough as in 1.5 crop it's down to 15mp but that's worse than the d7200. I'm hoping that if a d850 comes out with a 50mp sensor I'd still be able to crop to about 24mp with the 1.5 factor. But I'm dreaming, as if I can afford the d850 if it does come out!
 
htid said:
Maybe I'm expecting too much then as I want to be able to heavily crop in not great light and have virtually no noise. I accept that the d500 probably won't be what I want it to be which is why I said maybe I'll look at a d810 or d850 if that really is coming out (rather than just rumours).

Trouble is yoh can't always get close enough to a subject. A lot of the time my only chance to get out anywhere is to go to reserves where there are hides so I'm stuck with the distance the birds are from me. Of course I could get a 600mm lens with tc and increase that way but an f4 version is way above my price range so I'm stuck with what I have.
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Cropping heavily in poor light and virtually no noise sadly isn't going to be easy. Light is what makes a photo, I've not been out that much recently with the camera as free time and interesting weather haven't come together so I know how you feel. The problem with wildlife that it seems to require long lens but it's not always the case. If you can get a 150-600 or 200-500 that's good compromise quality, length and cost wise. increasing focal adds its own problems, at 600mm on a crop you need a minimum of 1/1000sec to stop lens shake. Long focal lengths magnify problems.

If you live in London there is plenty of wildlife around other than reserves. I follow two photographers on Flickr who have been doing a project on urban cormorants in central London. All of the parks are wildlife havens, all you need is a little food.
 
htid said:
Except the d750 has about the same MP as the d7200 but without the 1.5 crop :/ the d810 is nearly good enough as in 1.5 crop it's down to 15mp but that's worse than the d7200. I'm hoping that if a d850 comes out with a 50mp sensor I'd still be able to crop to about 24mp with the 1.5 factor. But I'm dreaming, as if I can afford the d850 if it does come out!
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Instead of looking at what you can't do with your camera, have a think about what you could do. Local parks are great, plenty of squirrels for even wide angles, if there is a pond I'm sure there will be ducks or maybe herons. These modern high MP cameras may seem the answer but they won't really get you closer as you have found with cropping the d7200.
 
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Ah but unfortunately cormorants and ducks/geese etc are easy and I have lots of images of them. My favourite type of birds are small uncommon birds and waders. Small birds are very tricky to get close to (and we generally don't get many in London) and waders are often far out on mudflats or the like and impossible to get any closer to. If it was a question of taking squirrels/cormorants or not going out, I'd just not go out as I have no interest in taking things like that, but that's just my opinion.

I've never used a FF camera do don't know how much noise there would be and maybe they aren't the solution I'm after (maybe there is no solution). I am after a Sigma 150-600 Sport but just waiting for my Christmas bonus. Even then 600 on FF doesn't compare to the 600+1.5 crop (900mm) of a crop which is why I was thinking the d810 so I can crop to the same level and still have lower noise at higher ISO to get the required shutter speed. I currently have an effective focal length of 630mm and I'm finding that too short which is why I need more. My only options seem to be 150-600 on a crop body or on an FF camera using crop mode.
 
htid said:
Ah but unfortunately cormorants and ducks/geese etc are easy and I have lots of images of them. My favourite type of birds are small uncommon birds and waders. Small birds are very tricky to get close to (and we generally don't get many in London) and waders are often far out on mudflats or the like and impossible to get any closer to. If it was a question of taking squirrels/cormorants or not going out, I'd just not go out as I have no interest in taking things like that, but that's just my opinion.

I've never used a FF camera do don't know how much noise there would be and maybe they aren't the solution I'm after (maybe there is no solution). I am after a Sigma 150-600 Sport but just waiting for my Christmas bonus. Even then 600 on FF doesn't compare to the 600+1.5 crop (900mm) of a crop which is why I was thinking the d810 so I can crop to the same level and still have lower noise at higher ISO to get the required shutter speed. I currently have an effective focal length of 630mm and I'm finding that too short which is why I need more. My only options seem to be 150-600 on a crop body or on an FF camera using crop mode.
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If focal length is what you are after a 150-600 on your crop body will give you what you want. If you are buying a FX camera and then only use it in dx mode it sounds like you won't get that much change for the cost outlay, but if you get the right lens first then in the future you could always change camera if you wanted to.

I understand what you mean by perceiving some images as easy but sometimes an easy subject in great light and context that makes a better image than a iconic subject in poor light. I remember Richard Peters saying this in a recent talk I went to when he he was showing pictures of pigeons. This said it's what gets you out is the key thing, getting out is better than not getting out at all. We are all different with with different aims and likes. I think we are all influenced by what we see as common uninteresting subjects as cormorants are not common where I live and I think as them as interesting subjects due to that.

The links below are to their flickr photo streams if you want to take a look.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danieltrim/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/52702463@N05/
 
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The noise issue? With my current crop body I have the reach but also the noise. DX mode on an FF body would give me same reach with less noise (but with less MP). As I say I'll see how the d500 compares for noise. If it's not much better I won't get it and instead will consider keeping the d7200 for nicer weather and get a d810 for when I'm worried about noise on a duller day.
 
over many many years of trying with different cameras and lenses and plenty of money spent (like a lot of us on the bird section) for reach, then it is cropped you need, if taking photos from hide then i would use nikon V series cameras, plus the longest lens you can afford, for the far distant birds, then don't expect to crop these images much, like said, cropped cameras will show the noise more when cropped,at the end of the day ,you are only magnifying the image.
for reach i use the 150-600 c without converters on v2 body nailed down,any movement will show, even with os on..if walking about i will use the D7200 with the 300mm f4 plus converter but not in cropped mode , if weather is nice then i will use V2 body with 300f4 and converter ,not had a good session yet with the 150-600 still new to me, but works very well if supported well, like said a lot of us on here have spent allot of money on different set-ups, I have also used full frame cameras too.
 
htid said:
Except the d750 has about the same MP as the d7200 but without the 1.5 crop :/ the d810 is nearly good enough as in 1.5 crop it's down to 15mp but that's worse than the d7200. I'm hoping that if a d850 comes out with a 50mp sensor I'd still be able to crop to about 24mp with the 1.5 factor. But I'm dreaming, as if I can afford the d850 if it does come out!
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Just to put things into perspective regarding mp ... the D3S came with 12mp and the D4/D4S with 16mp and both of these were well capable for wildlife in all sorts of conditions.
Whilst all cameras will crop to some degree, the key is getting closer ... less noise and better quality image, easy to say I know but true nevertheless :)
 
I use my V1 a lot with a 300mm Nikon for close ups, especially Dragonflies. Walking around with a long lens I find the V1 difficult to use ..... it's far better for me on a tripod. The DX, D7200 is great as a walk about with the 300mm PF with or without the TC x 1.4 ..... I notice the difference in IQ if I stick the x 2 on it........... D7xxx - I only find noise a problem with crops of small birds ..... unless the light is good and you are within a few feet

The 300mm f2.8 VR is not bad with the x 2 TC, but it is far better with the x 1.4 ......... the 600mm f4 is great with the x 1.4 and D750 - if I am on a tripod or bean bag I definitely prefer the D750

General shots with say a 50mm or the 70 200mm I use the D750

Landscapes and similar stuff which I don't take much of, I tend to use a DPM and I always take quite a few shots with a DP3M, which at ISO 100 and ISO 200 give really stellar and different images

I'm retired so can indulge myself a little with Camera kit ..............

I would not worry too much about wanting high MP's Chris, my D700 is still up there with the current crop
 
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Heavy crops of small birds is always going to be challenging, even with a great camera ... depends so much on available light and background :)

Not too bad.

Chaffinch.jpg



Busy, busy, busy

Blue-Tit3.jpg
 
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