Nikon D750 & D780

snerkler said:
Mine had over 60k actuations before I sent it in :D Just praying the AF is sorted,
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Mine has just reached 7.5k mark. Shows how much I really use the Camera :(

Will be interested to hear about the AF fix.
 
T_J_G said:
Suppose mine should go in soon for the recall!

Anyway, tried an @anibap, here's tonights dinner. Smoked Haddock on mash potato with wilted baby spinach, an English mustard sauce, topped with a poached egg.

Smoked Haddock by Tim G, on Flickr
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Lovely, making me hungry.
 
Well my cameras back. First the good news, it looked like a new camera. Very clean, nice a shiny. I also now have a perfectly clean focus screen :clap: Not had chance to check the sensor yet though.

Now the not so good news. It would seem that my AF system is no different, my 70-200mm still needs +12 fine tune (n)

Now the strange news. For the first 6-8 shots with AF fine tune off focus seemed OK, but then gradually got worse. Initially +6 fixed it, but then after another 10-12 shots it needed +12 and it's now stuck at needing +12 :confused:o_O:confused: The only thing that I can think is that there's the smallest of 'play' in the AF module seating and with the vibrations of the mirror/shutter it 'settles' into it's final resting place after a few shots. Just a theory obviously, but the only thing I can think of.

The trouble is I don't want to risk buying an f1.4 prime again and having to send it back. Amazon have already queried with my why I sent so many items back (ie the 3 sigma lenses) :oops: :$. So I'm going to have to get in back in touch with Nikon to see what they suggest. At the moment I would argue that my camera is not fit for purpose as I can't use fast primes ;) Any thoughts in the meantime would be appreciated. I've even thought that if they start offering the trade in bonus again on D750's that I'd trade mine in for a new one, but then it might raise suspicions why I'm doing this and I'd still be £300-400 out of pocket, and if the new one behaved the same I'd be gutted :confused:
 
snerkler said:
Well my cameras back. First the good news, it looked like a new camera. Very clean, nice a shiny. I also now have a perfectly clean focus screen :clap: Not had chance to check the sensor yet though.

Now the not so good news. It would seem that my AF system is no different, my 70-200mm still needs +12 fine tune (n)

Now the strange news. For the first 6-8 shots with AF fine tune off focus seemed OK, but then gradually got worse. Initially +6 fixed it, but then after another 10-12 shots it needed +12 and it's now stuck at needing +12 :confused:o_O:confused: The only thing that I can think is that there's the smallest of 'play' in the AF module seating and with the vibrations of the mirror/shutter it 'settles' into it's final resting place after a few shots. Just a theory obviously, but the only thing I can think of.

The trouble is I don't want to risk buying an f1.4 prime again and having to send it back. Amazon have already queried with my why I sent so many items back (ie the 3 sigma lenses) :oops: :$. So I'm going to have to get in back in touch with Nikon to see what they suggest. At the moment I would argue that my camera is not fit for purpose as I can't use fast primes ;) Any thoughts in the meantime would be appreciated. I've even thought that if they start offering the trade in bonus again on D750's that I'd trade mine in for a new one, but then it might raise suspicions why I'm doing this and I'd still be £300-400 out of pocket, and if the new one behaved the same I'd be gutted :confused:
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Did you send one of your lenses too? Even if your body is calibrated to Nikon's base standard, there's no guarantee that your lens won't need fine tuning. If you send your lens (most used wide open), they can calibrate the body against that.

Why are you worried if it needs AF fine tune value. Most lenses need to some extent and this is why the feature exists. I would worry if the acceptable range is above 15 or you can't even fix it at the extremities.

Another new body may require a new fine tune value and this time for the same lens it could be on the other side.
 
anibap said:
Did you send one of your lenses too? Even if your body is calibrated to Nikon's base standard, there's no guarantee that your lens won't need fine tuning. If you send your lens (most used wide open), they can calibrate the body against that.

Why are you worried if it needs AF fine tune value. Most lenses need to some extent and this is why the feature exists. I would worry if the acceptable range is above 15 or you can't even fix it at the extremities.

Another new body may require a new fine tune value and this time for the same lens it could be on the other side.
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I assume you've not followed my posts all the way through :p

The issue is not with having to fine tune my lens(es) per se, but the wider the aperture the more it front focuses, to the point there's not enough adjustment for f1.4 lenses to stop front focussing. For example my f2.8 lenses need around +12, all the f1.8 lenses I've tried need around +18, and all four 85mm f1.4's I tried needed +20 and they still front focussed. So it's no good sending my 70-200mm in and having them calibrate it to the body, because if I then go out and buy an f1.4 lens that still won't work :( If I used the default fine tune this has more of an effect and using this I could get the f1.4 to stop front focussing at +12 IIRC, however this only made the centre point acceptable, the outer points then back focussed (and not even close). So it seems that the more you adjust the default fine tune the more out of balance the AF points are.

So I either carrying on using my camera as I have been doing and give up on f1.4 lenses, keep sending it back to Nikon to get a more permanent fix, or swap the camera in the hope that the next works OK. There's enough people using f1.4 lenses on here to know that the D750 can work with f1.4 :p
 
snerkler said:
I assume you've not followed my posts all the way through :p

The issue is not with having to fine tune my lens(es) per se, but the wider the aperture the more it front focuses, to the point there's not enough adjustment for f1.4 lenses to stop front focussing. For example my f2.8 lenses need around +12, all the f1.8 lenses I've tried need around +18, and all four 85mm f1.4's I tried needed +20 and they still front focussed. So it's no good sending my 70-200mm in and having them calibrate it to the body, because if I then go out and buy an f1.4 lens that still won't work :( If I used the default fine tune this has more of an effect and using this I could get the f1.4 to stop front focussing at +12 IIRC, however this only made the centre point acceptable, the outer points then back focussed (and not even close). So it seems that the more you adjust the default fine tune the more out of balance the AF points are.

So I either carrying on using my camera as I have been doing and give up on f1.4 lenses, keep sending it back to Nikon to get a more permanent fix, or swap the camera in the hope that the next works OK. There's enough people using f1.4 lenses on here to know that the D750 can work with f1.4 :p
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Hmmm... Interesting. Have you tried a new Sigma or Nikon 1.4 lens. Have you considered renting a Sigma art lens or a Nikon 1.4 lens?
 
anibap said:
Hmmm... Interesting. Have you tried a new Sigma or Nikon 1.4 lens. Have you considered renting a Sigma art lens or a Nikon 1.4 lens?
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All 4 were Sigma f1.4's, one used and three brand spankers. All new ones sent back to Amazon which then made them email me to ask why I was returning so many items :oops: :$ Because of this I'm reluctant to buy anymore and keep having to return them, and I'm too busy at present to get to the camera shop to see if I can try a few there (I don't have a particularly local shop). The f1.8's I've tried that need +18 were Nikon, so it's not just Sigma that need extreme adjustments. I would like to try a Nikon 85mm f1.4 to see if I get the same results as the Sigma, but I can't afford one of those and I can't buy one and return it just so that I can test it :LOL:
 
You would think that there would be some correlation to be drawn in MA values between my two bodies, so here's my figures (that I keep saved on my phone)

D750
35 +16
50 = 0
85 +10
24-70 +12
70-200 +10

D610
35 +11
50 0
85 +1
24-70 -5
70-200 +2

It suggests that the 35 forward focuses more than the rest, but I don't get the negative value when that lens is front focussing a lot on the 750 body. Why would the 50 be ok on both?

Thought I'd share for interest, they all seem to be ok so not going to lose sleep over it.
 
I keep meaning to check mine but never get round to it. Really should do the sigma 150-600 as it can be done at 4 different focal lengths via the dock.
 
What it does suggest, and is borne out in use, is that the 610 body is pretty close to being neutral like yours David. I can tell with a new lens that the 750 body is out almost straight away, whereas the 610 body is pretty close straight out the box.

There definitely is AF variation at times and that's more noticeable either the wider or longer you go. I haven't bothered to do any adjustment with the 150-600 as that seems to be ok?
 
Livin The Dream said:
What it does suggest, and is borne out in use, is that the 610 body is pretty close to being neutral like yours David. I can tell with a new lens that the 750 body is out almost straight away, whereas the 610 body is pretty close straight out the box.

There definitely is AF variation at times and that's more noticeable either the wider or longer you go. I haven't bothered to do any adjustment with the 150-600 as that seems to be ok?
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Just to point out, the siggy's are only at zero because i have the dock. The 50 actually had +20 before and i suspect it still wasn't quite enough.
 
minnnt said:
Good idea...

Here's mine

24mm f1.4 - 0
50mm f1.4 - 0
70-200mm f2.8 - 0

:D

I tried to MA the 70-200 but decided to not dick about with it in the end as it seemed to make b****r all difference. IME there is too much variation in AF anyway, the lens won't always get it bang on.
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This is true, but if it's always out it needs adjusting :p
 
snerkler said:
If I used the default fine tune this has more of an effect and using this I could get the f1.4 to stop front focussing at +12 IIRC, however this only made the centre point acceptable, the outer points then back focussed (and not even close). So it seems that the more you adjust the default fine tune the more out of balance the AF points are.
Click to expand...

If the centre point is fine then shouldn't the outers also be fine as it's on the same focal plane?? Otherwise the AF module / mirror or whatever it is, would suggest it's on the skew-whiff.???

Also, is your testing procedure consistent, using tripod, remote, right distance for each lens, etc......
 
Swanseajack said:
If the centre point is fine then shouldn't the outers also be fine as it's on the same focal plane?? Otherwise the AF module / mirror or whatever it is, would suggest it's on the skew-whiff.???

Also, is your testing procedure consistent, using tripod, remote, right distance for each lens, etc......
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All testing done very consistently using tripod, remote shutter. There's no 'right' distance for a lens.

It would suggest it's on the skew yes, but it only does this 'phenomena' when you get past a point, there does not seem to be a gradual mismatch as you'd expect. Also if it was on the skew you'd expect the left to be front focussing and the right to be back focussing or vice versa, but the both back focus when centre is normal.

It's all very odd. Off course it could just be some weird thing with my camera and sigma lenses and the communication at extreme adjustments. I would like to try the Nikon 85mm f1.4 to see how that behaves.


What I also find odd is why it was OK for several shots and then went out again. I'm going to try a factory reset later and see if that results in the same sequence ie fine to start with and then goes out after a few shots. That may then narrow it down to software or alignment of the AF module/mirror.
 
You're always very welcome to try my 85 1.4 Toby. I pass your way with work every other week or so.

This lens is the one that can misbehave a bit on my body, took me a while to settle on the MA point.
 
Livin The Dream said:
You're always very welcome to try my 85 1.4 Toby. I pass your way with work every other week or so.

This lens is the one that can misbehave a bit on my body, took me a while to settle on the MA point.
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That's extremely kind, thank you. Which 85mm is it, Sigma or Nikon?
 
snerkler said:
All testing done very consistently using tripod, remote shutter. There's no 'right' distance for a lens.

It would suggest it's on the skew yes, but it only does this 'phenomena' when you get past a point, there does not seem to be a gradual mismatch as you'd expect. Also if it was on the skew you'd expect the left to be front focussing and the right to be back focussing or vice versa, but the both back focus when centre is normal.

It's all very odd. Off course it could just be some weird thing with my camera and sigma lenses and the communication at extreme adjustments. I would like to try the Nikon 85mm f1.4 to see how that behaves.


What I also find odd is why it was OK for several shots and then went out again. I'm going to try a factory reset later and see if that results in the same sequence ie fine to start with and then goes out after a few shots. That may then narrow it down to software or alignment of the AF module/mirror.
Click to expand...

I mentioned "right" distance for lenses, as Canon and Focal recommend you use up-to 50x focal length (IIRC) for testing. Nikon don't though, would be interesting to know what they recommend. Perhaps worth seeing if you can get a trial of Focal to see how you get on, some of the birders seem to recommend it for their exotic long lenses after, trying dot tune and similar. > https://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/

If at skew then, but if something is out of alignment it would be like this at all times and especially as your camera had 60k on the clock before being sent in. So no bedding in time at that mileage. I would have thought top and bottom would be out of alignment if front and back focussing rather than left and right, unless there's a combination of both when you adjust?

Software check seems like a good idea, otherwise get it boxed up and sent back to Nikon.
 
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Going to the zoo tomorrow with the kids, probably with the150-600 and 24-120, actually looking forward to it, the boys will love it. Then on Thursday evening I am shooting a cycling criterium for my brother and the club he is in. 3 separate races over a 1 mile triangular circuit. Probably 70-200 on the D750 and 24-120 on the D7000. Any tips or hints? Want to try @minnnt 's slow shutter speed panning on some of the corners.
 
Go wide mate. Are you familiar with the circuit they're doing? A sharpish corner and the 16-35 would be my choice. Obviously the panning type of shots will will make up the bulk but mix it up with perhaps a few start pics from behind perhaps with just the timekeepers helper holding the riders saddle (assuming it's kinda like the local events we have in the UK rather than some pro outfit?) framed so to just include the hand and rider, perhaps the timekeeper holding the stopwatch as a close up detail shot (200mm f2.8) some head on shots perhaps, (600mm so you don't die maybe?) rider head shots afterwards, bike detail close ups, refreshments? socialising? preparation beforehand? finish line? Endless list of opportunities but i guess with such a short course you'll be pushed for time unless there is a big field of riders.

As for panning, if you have a monopod then it may suit you. Give it a go and see. If hand holding, get as comfortable as possible and have some fun. Remember, the closer you are the harder it will be so if you have the chance to get a bit of space between you and the rider then it will make it a little easier. I use single shot AF-C although i had good success with CH and just fire 2 or 3 shots off. The AF-C group mode is also quite good.
 
Livin The Dream said:
Nikon.
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Cool. I would like to try it at some point. I'm not currently in the position for an f1.4 as that money's gone elsewhere, but when I am it would be great meet up and test the Nikon, as long as it's convenient for you and not putting you out (y)

Swanseajack said:
I mentioned "right" distance for lenses, as Canon and Focal recommend you use up-to 50x focal length (IIRC) for testing. Nikon don't though, would be interesting to know what they recommend. Perhaps worth seeing if you can get a trial of Focal to see how you get on, some of the birders seem to recommend it for their exotic long lenses after, trying dot tune and similar. > https://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/

If at skew then, but if something is out of alignment it would be like this at all times and especially as your camera had 60k on the clock before being sent in. So no bedding in time at that mileage. I would have thought top and bottom would be out of alignment if front and back focussing rather than left and right, unless there's a combination of both when you adjust?

Software check seems like a good idea, otherwise get it boxed up and sent back to Nikon.
Click to expand...

Right, I've had chance to do more extensive testing today. Both DOT tune and this method (http://photo.net/learn/focustest/) show that my 70-200mm f2.8 still needs +12 fine tune. I have been incredibly anal during the set up and even used a set square to get the angle precise, used a tripod with shutter release, and tried various subject distances.

Now the bizarre thing, In real world shooting +12 makes the camera really inconsistent, and I get the discrepancies between centre AF and outer ones as I did with the Sigma. Having fine tune turned off makes it much more consistent and it is still tack sharp. Being pedantic it's still front focussing a touch in that there's 2/3 in front of the focus point and 1/3 behind in focus rather than the other way around, but the focus point is sharp, consistent and consistent across all other points. So it would appear that something was done whilst back at Nikon. My 24-120mm also seems to be OK at 0 MA, but my Tamron now needs -6 instead of +2, but is consistent so is fine (that being said I never use the outer points on the Tamron so not checked them). Probably will do tomorrow out of curiosity ;)

I haven't tried my Sigma Macro, or 18-35mm yet. Would be interested to try my old 50mm f1.8 that I sold to my mate now to see what that now needs setting at. It was +18 before but will try it next time I see him.

There is something else I've noticed, but I'll post this in my nest post as don't want it to get lost with all this MA talk ;)
 
As you will all most likely know my camera's just been in for the shutter recall. I have just checked my shutter count and it has not gone back to zero. Looking at the job sheet it just says that it's had the shutter plate replaced, does this mean it's not been the whole shutter and so it won't be zeroed, or have Nikon just forgotten to reset it?
 
phil_b said:
Going to the zoo tomorrow with the kids, probably with the150-600 and 24-120, actually looking forward to it, the boys will love it. Then on Thursday evening I am shooting a cycling criterium for my brother and the club he is in. 3 separate races over a 1 mile triangular circuit. Probably 70-200 on the D750 and 24-120 on the D7000. Any tips or hints? Want to try @minnnt 's slow shutter speed panning on some of the corners.
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For the cycling it depends on the type of circuit and how close you can get. For something like this that I went to I used both the 24-120mm and 70-200mm to get different perspectives. If I was only to take one it would've been the 70-200mm
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/peak-rc-cycle-race-june-2016.628827/

I went to the Sheffield Grand Prix a couple of years ago (which I'm hoping to go to again on Wednesday if I'm back in time) and I mainly used 24-70mm on a crop body, so 24-120mm would be ideal. That being said I did also take some shots with a 70-200mm, but for this event I'd mainly choose the 24-120mm
See here (warning shot with a Sony and was the first ever time I'd tried panning :oops: :$)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99443690@N04/14751771355/in/album-72157645917226562/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99443690@N04/14763860073/in/album-72157645917226562/

For zoo's I only take the 150-600mm, except for once when I went on a photography experience and got closer access when I took the 70-200mm as well. I can't ever imagine using the 24-120mm at a zoo but YMMV ;)
 
snerkler said:
Cool. I would like to try it at some point. I'm not currently in the position for an f1.4 as that money's gone elsewhere, but when I am it would be great meet up and test the Nikon, as long as it's convenient for you and not putting you out (y)
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No problem just let me know.
 
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minnnt said:
Go wide mate. Are you familiar with the circuit they're doing? A sharpish corner and the 16-35 would be my choice. Obviously the panning type of shots will will make up the bulk but mix it up with perhaps a few start pics from behind perhaps with just the timekeepers helper holding the riders saddle (assuming it's kinda like the local events we have in the UK rather than some pro outfit?) framed so to just include the hand and rider, perhaps the timekeeper holding the stopwatch as a close up detail shot (200mm f2.8) some head on shots perhaps, (600mm so you don't die maybe?) rider head shots afterwards, bike detail close ups, refreshments? socialising? preparation beforehand? finish line? Endless list of opportunities but i guess with such a short course you'll be pushed for time unless there is a big field of riders.

As for panning, if you have a monopod then it may suit you. Give it a go and see. If hand holding, get as comfortable as possible and have some fun. Remember, the closer you are the harder it will be so if you have the chance to get a bit of space between you and the rider then it will make it a little easier. I use single shot AF-C although i had good success with CH and just fire 2 or 3 shots off. The AF-C group mode is also quite good.
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Thanks for all that David. The course Is only a mile from home so I will go down on the mountain bike so I can move about easily to the 3 corners and the finish. It is on country roads with only 4 or 5 houses on the whole course and all 3 junctions are fairly sharp. There is 3 separate races for different categories, 15 mins plus 2 laps, 25 mins plus 2 and 35 plus 2 so plenty of chances to get a few shots.
 
minnnt said:
Fingers crossed for a nice morning tomorrow, going to head over to Cave Dale.

Here's one from a while a go.


Golden Glow by David Raynham, on Flickr
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Not such a good start but then will brighten up to be a nice day. Sunrise looks hit and miss, which can sometimes give rise to some nice light.
 
phil_b said:
Thanks for all that David. The course Is only a mile from home so I will go down on the mountain bike so I can move about easily to the 3 corners and the finish. It is on country roads with only 4 or 5 houses on the whole course and all 3 junctions are fairly sharp. There is 3 separate races for different categories, 15 mins plus 2 laps, 25 mins plus 2 and 35 plus 2 so plenty of chances to get a few shots.
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Sounds very much like the Barlow Triangle, hope you don't get crazy farmers trying to create hovoc :eek:

Which zoo are you going to btw? Look forward to seeing the pics.
 
minnnt said:
Hopefully it'll be broken cloud. Usually the best type. Knowing my luck it will be solid grey skies. :LOL:

Looking forward to no sleep, gotta pick a p***ed up father in law up from Nottingham in a bit then a 3am start. Great.
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Christ, I'd be alright walking up places like that with such little sleep :eek:
 
Cave Dale is a doddle by the looks of it. Close to the road. Shoot that, maybe call in at Ladybower on the way back then a day out somewhere with the family. Then before you know it, back at work.

WooHoo
 
snerkler said:
As you will all most likely know my camera's just been in for the shutter recall. I have just checked my shutter count and it has not gone back to zero. Looking at the job sheet it just says that it's had the shutter plate replaced, does this mean it's not been the whole shutter and so it won't be zeroed, or have Nikon just forgotten to reset it?
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Been doing some research on t'interweb about this and it seems Nikon are inconsistent about resetting the tge shutter count after shutter replacement. Some say they shouldn't reset it as there's wear on other parts, whereas some want it reset due to future resale values. The trouble with not resetting it is that Nikon have not made a note of how many actuations it had before it went in, and therefore there's no way to prove how many actuations the new shutter has other than my word (plus my original files/pics which are date stamped which you can then cross reference with the service report.)

Out of interest, whose on here has been reset and who's hasn't?
 
snerkler said:
Sounds very much like the Barlow Triangle, hope you don't get crazy farmers trying to create hovoc :eek:

Which zoo are you going to btw? Look forward to seeing the pics.
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Belfast zoo is our local, not been in a couple of years and the boys will enjoy it which is the main thing.
 
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