Need some F&C good advice

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Yv

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Right chaps and chappesses... 2 things I need some advice on, both of a practical nature.

1 - The beautyflex TLR - love using it, still need practice at getting focus right, but not worried about that bit. No, my main problem is double exposures because I have not got myself into a 'when to wind on' habit. So, for those of you regularly using cameras requiring memory/habit, have you found winding on before putting the camera away until the next frame better, or leaving it until you take out of the bag to do the next one a better method? I guess I am asking if anyone has come up with any foolproof memory tool or mental system to make sure they do it right. I know, its a dumb question, but also one that is bothering me.


2 - squeegees! Do they always leave faint run line scratches down film, despite my best efforts to make sure everything is clean and dust/grit free? Any better ways to remove excess moisture? I do the last wash with a drop of washing up liquid, as per advice in various bits of this forum etc, but both films yesterday required PS removal of fine but definitely there scratching all the way down. Its bad enough keeping it all dust free during scanning, a house full of animals does not make for a dust free environment, but any tips or advice on the wet stage would be appreciated.


Yours

Film Muppet of London :(
 
Answer to Q 1 Nope, the amount of double exposures I have from forgetting to wind old cameras or folders on I could create a whole exhibition. The only way I found was to stick a small square of paper on the camera with a note saying "Did you Wind On" not fool proof.

Q2 I found that I used to soak the squeezy in water before using it, or I would just use my finger, wet again, sort of worked better.
 
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Folders I try not to wind on till I'm ready, this helps with the film tension and flatness. Also it means that I'll get a blank frame rather than a dx which is probably better, more of a fail safe, but it does mean I miss the occasional shot.

Ditch the squeegee, use a wetting agent.
 
Q1 Wind on ready for the next shot before putting the camera away.

What Steveo says about film flatness is a good point but tbh unless you're extending the bellows at great speed, the film doesnt get pulled forward with the suction.

I have tried leaving wind on until I'm ready for the next frame but double exposures were becoming the norm!

Q2 Squeegie.....don't use em......use a wetting agent or nothing at all.
 
Wind on when ready... but I often forget to do it and wind on straight after a shot, so a lot less than foolproof.

I tend to used a wet squeegee same as Nick, or wet fingers.
 
hmmm... at least I feel less stupid that I am not the only one with the wind on issue.

Thinking about it, I used fingers on the test roll a few weeks ago and didn\t have the problem. The squeegee was wet, but obviously didn't help. 2 fingers it is then ;)
 
1. With the TLR I used to have, I'd wind on before a shot to avoid the chance of firing the shutter by accident and wasting a shot when putting it in a bag or handling it. With the 'blad I wind on after each shot because it needs to be wound on if you're going to swap the back or lens. And yes, I have fired a shot by accident by doing that. Bigger issue I have with the 'blad is remembering to remove the dark slide before trying to take a shot - I need to use it more to get used to that :)

2. We have very hard water here so I use a wetting agent, moved from washing up liquid to Photoflo because it was cheap and I needed to increase the value of an order from maco. I used to use a squeegee but had the same problems you're having so now I fold a sheet of kitchen towel a couple of times and lightly run that down the film. I keep meaning to cut a piece off the chamois I keep in the car for wiping the windows and try that, it's supposed to be excellent.
 
Strappy said:
1. With the TLR I used to have, I'd wind on before a shot to avoid the chance of firing the shutter by accident and wasting a shot when putting it in a bag or handling it. With the 'blad I wind on after each shot because it needs to be wound on if you're going to swap the back or lens. And yes, I have fired a shot by accident by doing that. Bigger issue I have with the 'blad is remembering to remove the dark slide before trying to take a shot - I need to use it more to get used to that :)

2. We have very hard water here so I use a wetting agent, moved from washing up liquid to Photoflo because it was cheap and I needed to increase the value of an order from maco. I used to use a squeegee but had the same problems you're having so now I fold a sheet of kitchen towel a couple of times and lightly run that down the film. I keep meaning to cut a piece off the chamois I keep in the car for wiping the windows and try that, it's supposed to be excellent.
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You've had no probs with kitchen towel Dean?......It's quite an abrasive material tbh.

The chamois sounds a possible good alternative though(y)
 
Never use a squeegee. And to be honest, with a wetting agent, you should never need to use fingers either. After a few scratches and marks on the first few films I developed myself, I realised that there was absolutely no need to touch the surface of the film at any point - not with a finger, a squeegee or anything else you might have in your developing kit.

Wetting agent, and hung up with a weight holding the film taught will be enough to leave the negatives free of marks.
 
1. With my Nettar folder I never wind on 'till I have decided I'm going to take the picture.
It's just about getting into a routine.

See potential pic.
Look through viewfinder for framing.
Decide to take it.
Wind on.
Set focus.
Take meter reading.
Set speed and aperture
Cock shutter.
Fire

2. Throw away the squeegee.
 
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1. No waiting for me. I wind on as soon as the previous photo is completed with all of my cameras.

2. I always use a squeegee with Kodak Photo Flo and don't have any problems.
 
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Asha said:
You've had no probs with kitchen towel Dean?......It's quite an abrasive material tbh.
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Not that I've noticed. Certainly better than leaving it to hang without any wiping, the water we have here is dreadful for leaving marks. Maybe I'm not using enough wetting agent :confused:
 
If you can manage to train your memory to be perfectly correct all the time, then it doesn't matter which system you adopt for question one. The difficulty comes from sticking to a system all the time, something I never manage to do.

I used to use a squeegee, then abandoned the practice, as I was getting too many scratches. Squeegee blades get harder and more ragged as they get older, just like windscreen wiper blades. This tends to make you squeeze harder when using them, leading to more scratches. They should always be soaked in warm water with washing up liquid before use to soften them a bit. When I used hard London water I used cheap supermarket still table water for the last rinse, as I think it was softer and grit free.

Irrespective of whether you squeegee or not, hang the negatives to dry at an angle by attaching another clip to the bottom of the strip and pulling it to the side and fixing it there to make the line of the strip slant. This makes the frames at the bottom dry quicker, as the water drops run to the edge for each frame, rather than all the way vertically down to the bottom edge.
 
See, this is is what worries me about just leaving them, London water is horribly hard. Perhaps wetting agent is the route to go down and as Nick says, even buying those huge bottles of cheap supermarket drinking water for final rinse. I will probably end up experimwnting with some cheap film and quickly shot rolls, see which works best for me.

As to the other problem... just need a less addled brain, obviously :lol:
 
Yv said:
I will probably end up experimwnting with some cheap film and quickly shot rolls, see which works best for me.
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If you choose Fomapan as your cheap film, then don't squeegee it, as you will remove most of the emulsion. I did with the 400 ASA version!
 
NickT said:
If you choose Fomapan as your cheap film, then don't squeegee it, as you will remove most of the emulsion. I did with the 400 ASA version!
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:lol: oh dear. I will probably use some poundland agfa dev'd as B&W, not really bothered about the actual pictures, just the effects of various rinse/drying on the film itself. In fact, probably only one roll too, will cut into lengths and try different with each.
 
I never wind on until preparing for the shot, because of the risk of accidentally firing the shutter in the bag or as I move the camera from my shoulder. One of the annoying things for me about the Leica CL is that the meter won't work until you have wound on (AND have the camera in landscape position), so it goes against the grain for me.

I've not found a good solution for water marks yet. Hang up with a weight at the bottom. Straight (medium hard) water with a drop or two of Fairy, several marks. Sainsbury's cheapest still water, as recommended by some here plus Fairy, still one or two marks. Next I'm getting some distilled water, although that stuff is expensive. Next time I get near a proper shop I'll be buying some wetting agent.

I've never used squeegee yet, but I have used the two fingers, gently. Possible mark on one film. These water marks are the most annoying thing about home dev, particularly when they turn up as a ring across several features, which means it's impossible for me to remove them in PP. :(

One other issue I'm getting, using TriX (haven't used anything else yet). The film dries in a curved shape, with the axis parallel to the hanging length of the film. When cut and in the pockets, the sheet looks like a row of logs! I've been flattening the sheet under "Henri Cartier Bresson: Photographer" for a couple of hours before scanning, which seems to get them flat enough to scan on the Plustek (where the neg holder has bars across) but I wouldn't like to scan them with the V500 neg holder!
 
Yv said:
See, this is is what worries me about just leaving them, London water is horribly hard.
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My recommendation earlier (wetting agent only, no fingers/squeegee) is from developing with London water. I get the occasional 35mm film which is a little bit stubborn with the tap water + wetting agent combination, but when that occurs, I have some distilled water that I mix with wetting agent and rewash - always gets rid of any marks.

Try it. You'll realise there's no need to touch the film, ever.
 
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freecom2 said:
...when that occurs, I have some distilled water that I mix with wetting agent and rewash - always gets rid of any marks.

Try it. You'll realise there's no need to touch the film, ever.
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Rewash!!!! Sounds like a good idea, but in practice how do you do it? I presume before it's cut into strips? Do you respool, or just chuck it in a bucket (as it were)?
 
ChrisR said:
Rewash!!!! Sounds like a good idea, but in practice how do you do it? I presume before it's cut into strips? Do you respool, or just chuck it in a bucket (as it were)?
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Negative strip has dried, and there are marks on it. Oh dear... time to rewash.

Curl it up, dunk it back in the tank with some distilled water + wetting agent, and then hang it up again to dry. You can respool it, but usually there's enough space at the bottom of a developing tank.
 
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Might work in the Rondinax if I took the reel out... which I haven't done yet. Thanks for the idea.

(I'm on shot 34... better get that distilled water tomorrow. :) )
 
I've had issues with marks due to our hard water. Even when very well filtered it still marks. Now I spin the film in a salad spinner before hanging. Also I read somewhere that hanging diagonally can help as the water runs onto the edge rather than down the length of the film.
 
FujiLove said:
I've had issues with marks due to our hard water. Even when very well filtered it still marks. Now I spin the film in a salad spinner before hanging. Also I read somewhere that hanging diagonally can help as the water runs onto the edge rather than down the length of the film.
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Do you mean suspending the film from a corner? Or literally pulling the film sideways at an angle? Not sure how that would work; I suspect it would twist and take the bend through the film (IYSWIM). Has anyone done this?

I did wonder about inspecting the film after 10 minutes or so and using something to "blot" the larger drops of water, which are presumably the ones that leave the marks...

I've bought some de-ionised water to try with the next film.
 
I always use a microfibre cloth on my negatives before I scan them. Lay the negatives on top of the cloth then fold the other half of the cloth over them and rub gently.

I generally use a squeegee on the negatives when they're drying but I don't press very hard with it so it just takes off the majority of water.
 
Its all a bit...tough going in Landan is it, all this faffin with the film surfaces is not great.
Its easy to wag the finger when you don't have drying mark problems but I think anything that negates you actually touching the film surface with anything, ever, is worth pursuing.
I don't get drying marks, I don't sqeegy, I definitely don't do any rubbing, I don't even use a whetting agent, its just tap water and a hang overnight, then sleeved.
I have a blusher brush as a last resort, if that don't work I might have to write it off.

why no drying marks ?, I dunno, I'm thinking its the sheep p1ss in it, off the Pennines..:)
 
joxby said:
Its all a bit...tough going in Landan is it, all this faffin with the film surfaces is not great.
Its easy to wag the finger when you don't have drying mark problems but I think anything that negates you actually touching the film surface with anything, ever, is worth pursuing.
I don't get drying marks, I don't sqeegy, I definitely don't do any rubbing, I don't even use a whetting agent, its just tap water and a hang overnight, then sleeved.
I have a blusher brush as a last resort, if that don't work I might have to write it off.

why no drying marks ?, I dunno, I'm thinking its the sheep p1ss in it, off the Pennines..:)
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Your tap water is better? Water where I live leaves a white stain when it dries :(
 
excalibur2 said:
Your tap water is better? Water where I live leaves a white stain when it dries :(
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What is that, chalk....limescale ?, we get limescale but it takes a while to build up enough to be noticeable on leaky taps and wotnot, I don't see it on negs they don't get leaked on for years, its just a 5 minute dunk.

mebbe I should start bottling sheep p1ss an shippin it darn sarf, you can add it to your neg wash...lol
 
joxby said:
What is that, chalk....limescale ?, we get limescale but it takes a while to build up enough to be noticeable on leaky taps and wotnot, I don't see it on negs they don't get leaked on for years, its just a 5 minute dunk.

mebbe I should start bottling sheep p1ss an shippin it darn sarf, you can add it to your neg wash...lol
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Dunno where the water and lime comes from as the whole area where I live is full of lakes (great shooting opportunities) h'mm the lakes are because of gravel pits so I suppose the area was a beach millions of years ago...so how do you get lime from gravel :confused:
 
joxby said:
What is that, chalk....limescale ?, we get limescale but it takes a while to build up enough to be noticeable on leaky taps and wotnot, I don't see it on negs they don't get leaked on for years, its just a 5 minute dunk.

mebbe I should start bottling sheep p1ss an shippin it darn sarf, you can add it to your neg wash...lol
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It''s quite simple John - our water around wakefield is really quite soft - pretty low in lime (in the greater scheme of things - yeah, you get a bit of scale in the kettle / coffee machine but thats boling water away and is bound to do it a bit, but i've lived in other areas where water's drawn from aquifers on limestone, and if you spilled water on the worktop at breakfast time, if you didn't wipe it up before going to work, when you got home there was a white patch of scale.

Yet another reason why we're lucky to live in god's own county.

to Yv's original question...

Personally, I wind on as the final thing before pressing the shutter release on ALL my cameras (apart from the EOS3 and 30 - or the A1 when it's got the motor drive fitted, that do the winding automatically). Most of them have "interlocks" that stop me taking double exposures inadvertently, or releasing the shutter by accident that way - but the ones that don't, well - they're Holga's and frankly I just expect to be taking "pot luck" with ANYTHING that comes out of them anyway. I found it was just a matter of establishing a single habit, do it the same, every time, with every camera. Trying to remember a different sequence for different cameras wasn't working for me.

TBH I had more of a problem with not removing lens caps on non-SLR type cameras than I had with remembering to wind on.... hence the high-tech solution I came up with for Helga the Holga, before she went on her travels...

Holga Lens Cap by The Big Yin, on Flickr


oh - and obviously, for me, Squeegees are The work of Satan. Plain water works fine here - maybe with a drop of photoflow in the final rinse - but really, I try and minimise ANYTHING touching the film surface until it's been out of the tank for a good 12 hours - maybe a hang-over from olden times where the emulsions were perhaps a little more fragile than current ones, but I like to be sure things are not only touch dry but completely "cured" dry...
 
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Personally... I've been processing film myself for only two or three years, although in that time I must have processed an embarrassing number of them. I own an Ilford squeegee.

I have drifted from one method of drying to another. Sometimes i have used it, other times not. I do use an Ilford wetting agent, but I have tried washing up liquid. I use tap water, and it is fairly hard in my area.

My present method is probably unconventional, and others might say it can damage a film. I simply use a wetting agent in the final rinse in tap water. When I take the spool out, I shake the excess water out, then leave it on the side to drain a few minutes while I put stuff away. I then give it another little shake, and then unspool the film. Hang it up. No squeegee, no finger and thumb. Just let it dry.
 
We have to descale the kettle every couple of weeks and our shower units last on average about 3 years before they have to be replaced. I asked the plumber if there was anything we could do about it and he replied, "move".
 
You can't even trust filtered rain water because of pollution from volcanoes and factories :D
 
Interesting hard water map here. I think a lot of London's water comes from artesian basins, so perhaps naturally hard. But maybe it gets softened by the multiple cycles of reprocessing (they say you drink London water 3 times before it reaches the sea ;) ).
 
why anybody would not live in Yorkshire or Cornwall.......is a mystery to me


:ROFLMAO:
 
Aye, our London water is so bloody hard, left to its own devices it can stand up and walk out the door. I admit to missing little about living in the north, apart from the tap water, which was soft and sweet on the west side of the Pennines. I don't recall ever having to descale a kettle, iron or owt before moving south. Only thing I remember was having a dripping tap in a bathroom, which was like that for a week whilst on holiday, and the tap had a slight pinkish scum round it when we got back, from the fact the water was partly filtered through sandstone.

Anyway, going to adopt the do not touch method to begin with I think, combined with hanging on an angle. I have ordered some wetting agent and will pop a load of cheap bottled water in during next supermarket shop and see what happens.

Thanks for all the comments folks, really interesting to see what everyone does
 
Just a quick note - bottled water will have a fair number of minerals in it, which contribute to the hardness. Distilled water is the way to go if you want to use a specific water (although I've been fine with tap water + wetting agent).
 
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Deionised water should also do the trick, not as pure as distilled but cheaper.
 
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i used water from a filter jug for my final rinse, and my dev/stop/fix stuff
 
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