MWAY speed limit may go up

Pookeyhead said:
As it stands... to all pretence and purpose, you take a driving test once in your life (which is also rediculous if you ask me). If you can;t be arsed travelling in order to undertake that test, then you don't deserve to have a license. I had to travel 120 miles in order to take a morse code test to get my ham radio license... I didn't object. People should just stop being whiny little bitches, and just travel further for their test if they want a license.
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How far did you travel for your driving test?
 
ST4 said:
a reduction to 60mph would be a travesty.
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On the M6 between the Thelwall Viaduct and Birmingham a rise to 60mph would be a miracle ;)
 
viv1969 said:
How far did you travel for your driving test?
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1.7 miles according to Google earth, but if I had to travel 17 miles, or 170 miles... so what? I passed at 17, and have a license until at least my 70th birthday. I know people who happily travel that far to go and buy some shoes! Seriously.... if you can't be arsed travelling to take a driving test, then it's not that important to you.
 
Easy to say once you have it.
Everyone who says "it should be this...it should be that...", already has it. :-)
 
Sped limits have to be there but in many cases they are irrelevant. Some old granny with limited experience and driving a 20 year old car is probably a liability at 70, yet an experienced driver in great health driving a brand new m5 is quite probably less dangerous at 100. There is a hell of a difference in driving past a school in fog at 3pm as opposed to the same school in perfect light at 5am.

The mother in law is a 'safe' driver as she never breaks limits, however she is far more dangerous than me in my repping days when everything was at 98! She brakes on the slip roads when joining, has no positional sense or awareness, either parks on the kerb or a meter away etc...

Surely Germany have it right, or have they just not realised a tax on a motorist is the easy thing to do?
 
viv1969 said:
Easy to say once you have it.
Everyone who says "it should be this...it should be that...", already has it. :)
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As I said Viv.. I happily travelled a long distance to obtain a license for something far less important, and didn't mind at all. People are just pampered these days. They want everything to be done at their convenience.
 
You can't really compare something so niche as a radio licence with something the majority of the population obtain though. Not sanely :-)
 
Pookeyhead said:
This^^^^


Setting it to 80 will just mean idiots that now do 80-90 will be doing 90-100 instead. Motorways are just too congested these days, and I don't see the point. Plus.. it's not the speed itself that's the problem, it's the miss-use of speed.

Better driver education is required, and tougher driving tests that include motorway driving. What they should also do is have a tiered licensing system. How I envisage that working is you have to have had a clean license for 5 years before you can drive anything of more than a certain engine size/power to weight ratio. If you've kept your nose clean for 5 years, you move up to the next tier etc. Get caught being a knob and doing anything speed related that would earn you more than a SP30, then you're back to your 1.0 litre shopping trolley for another 5 years.

Seems fair to me. Certain vehicle classes are tiered, such as HGV, and bikes, yet cars are all lumped into one category. If you pass your test, you can jump into either a 1 litre front wheel drive box, or a 600bhp rear wheel drive monster depending on how much money you have. In order to move to the next class, you should have to earn that right, otherwise you'll either get the Justin Biebers of this world being total cocks, or at the lower end of the scale, teenagers in knackered, but otherwise still powerful cars being cocks. They ruin it for sensible people, who use powerful cars responsibly.
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Do you honestly want to be stuck behind millions of 20-plenty 1 litre shoeboxes?
 
I attended a 'speed awareness course' last month (42 in a 30) and I raised the issue of speed limiting etc. It seems on the one hand we have the (hugely important) motor industry urging us to buy their cars based on how fast and powerful they are and on the other hand we have the authorities telling us that now we've swallowed the bait and bought that new 911 etc, we can't exceed 70 mph in the thing!

Alcohol's the same, we are 'sold' the product only to be told it's no good for us. Someone makes money selling us cars and someone makes money selling us Vodka. Lots of money and there are lots and lots of people who don't want to upset things. It's little wonder then that some folk drive too fast and some drink too much (for example).

I guess we have a choice as individuals, if such a thing exists of course ;)
 
cambsno said:
Sped limits have to be there but in many cases they are irrelevant. Some old granny with limited experience and driving a 20 year old car is probably a liability at 70, yet an experienced driver in great health driving a brand new m5 is quite probably less dangerous at 100. There is a hell of a difference in driving past a school in fog at 3pm as opposed to the same school in perfect light at 5am.

The mother in law is a 'safe' driver as she never breaks limits, however she is far more dangerous than me in my repping days when everything was at 98! She brakes on the slip roads when joining, has no positional sense or awareness, either parks on the kerb or a meter away etc...

Surely Germany have it right, or have they just not realised a tax on a motorist is the easy thing to do?
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In all honesty granny can be very dangerous even at less than 10mph as I found out last night.
 
daugirdas said:
Do you honestly want to be stuck behind millions of 20-plenty 1 litre shoeboxes?
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You can do 70 in a 1 litre car. The problem with 20 plenties is them, not their vehicles :)
 
Pookeyhead said:
You can do 70 in a 1 litre car. The problem with 20 plenties is them, not their vehicles :)
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underpowered cars are in a way dangerous. The best case scenario is something fairly average. I think 1.6TDI or equivalent is the lowest powered car I would dare to drive on our roads.

You will find the small shoeboxes are very low on security features. NCAP doesn't test for head on collisions with a bigger car for example. A mini or Aygo is a cat A or B scrap almost inevitably. Very slow acceleration causes heavy traffic; the cars are very noisy, and manoeuvrability is heavily compromised. While they are technically capable of 70, you really wouldn't want to go faster than 20 in them.
 
ST4 said:
You've never sped?
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Do pay attention Steve.
I've said before in the countless speeding threads that yes, I have, though never to the a point that exceeds sanity, and had I ever received points for it I would suck it up and not whine like a baby.
You might not like that the laws exist, but they do exist, and breaking them invites punishment.
You can quote whatever section infringements you like, and you can refer to the police in any derogatory term you choose; but all it does is serve to make you sound more juvenile and whiny.
 
ST4 said:
You drive a V8 stang, you're telling me you've not once opened it up a bit. Or is it ok for you do that and not me?
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All the time. If I pull out onto a 60mph road, I'll hammer it in second all the way up to 60, yes... always. I'll kick the crap out of it on Mway acceleration lanes too. I also enjoy driving up the A588 to Lancaster, where my average speed is probably no more than 40mph due to the nature of the road, but it's immensely good fun. Absolute speed is not important to me. I enjoy the acceleration, and the noise. I couldn't care less if it only did 80mph flat out... in fact... that would mean it would accelerate faster still :) I enjoy high speeds though, and have occasionally exceeded speed limits on motorways late at night... but not stupidly so. Besides.. I'm not having a go at your for having done it (as we all have to some extent), I was commenting on your attitude that seems to suggest you'd still do it despite having been banned. Clearly the punishment doesn't act as a deterrent.. that is all.

daugirdas said:
Very slow acceleration causes heavy traffic;
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No.. too many cars causes heavy traffic.


daugirdas said:
the cars are very noisy
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My Micra is lovely and quiet. My Mustang on the other hand... you have to shout to make yourself heard :)


daugirdas said:
, and manoeuvrability is heavily compromised.
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What? A small car is less manoeuvrable than a big one... you on drugs?

daugirdas said:
While they are technically capable of 70, you really wouldn't want to go faster than 20 in them.
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20? You ARE on drugs... LOL

You seriously think that you wouldn't want to do more than 20mph in a Nissan Micra? Sorry... but you're talking [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]. It cruises at motorway speeds quite happily, all day long. I once drive from Essex to Orkney and back in it.... it was just as comfortable, quiet and relaxed as a larger car.

I suspect your experience with small cars is very limited... or around 50 years out of date.
 
viv1969 said:
You can't really compare something so niche as a radio licence with something the majority of the population obtain though. Not sanely :)
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No.. you can't. My point is though, I was quite happy to travel for something that was not anywhere as important, so if I really wanted a driving license, and my only option was to travel a longer distance to obtain one, I wouldn't whinge about it... no.
 
Swissy said:
We should teach people to drive better before thinking about increasing the speed limit.
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unfortunately, the problem with that is, at present, they are taught to pass a test,
and then have to spend the next year or so, learning to "actually drive" ;)

ST4 said:
By the same Tolken not all fast cars are driven dangerously so why should they be limited. My post was a riposte to that
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No argument from me on that one.
 
Pookeyhead said:
All the time. If I pull out onto a 60mph road, I'll hammer it in second all the way up to 60, yes... always. I'll kick the crap out of it on Mway acceleration lanes too. I also enjoy driving up the A588 to Lancaster, where my average speed is probably no more than 40mph due to the nature of the road, but it's immensely good fun. Absolute speed is not important to me. I enjoy the acceleration, and the noise. I couldn't care less if it only did 80mph flat out... in fact... that would mean it would accelerate faster still :) I enjoy high speeds though, and have occasionally exceeded speed limits on motorways late at night... but not stupidly so. Besides.. I'm not having a go at your for having done it (as we all have to some extent), I was commenting on your attitude that seems to suggest you'd still do it despite having been banned. Clearly the punishment doesn't act as a deterrent.. that is all.



No.. too many cars causes heavy traffic.




My Micra is lovely and quiet. My Mustang on the other hand... you have to shout to make yourself heard :)




What? A small car is less manoeuvrable than a big one... you on drugs?



20? You ARE on drugs... LOL

You seriously think that you wouldn't want to do more than 20mph in a Nissan Micra? Sorry... but you're talking [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]. It cruises at motorway speeds quite happily, all day long. I once drive from Essex to Orkney and back in it.... it was just as comfortable, quiet and relaxed as a larger car.

I suspect your experience with small cars is very limited... or around 50 years out of date.
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I have plenty of experience in clio deathtrap. If you are behind lorry at 50 (on m'way) you have no chance to overtake if there is any traffic on lane 2 for example. Moving off at busy junctions is a game with death, etc. I became a safe driver overnight once I sold off the red grave.
 
daugirdas said:
I have plenty of experience in clio deathtrap. If you are behind lorry at 50 (on m'way) you have no chance to overtake if there is any traffic on lane 2 for example. Moving off at busy junctions is a game with death, etc. I became a safe driver overnight once I sold off the red grave.
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have driven a peugeot 107 for about 3 years and never had any problem getting past 50mph hgvs - it just requires a bit of advance planning when you spot one coming up ahead and switch lane in good time instead of trying to swerve into the fast lane at the last minute which i see people try and do and it looks lethal!
 
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Pookeyhead said:
All the time. If I pull out onto a 60mph road, I'll hammer it in second all the way up to 60, yes... always. I'll kick the crap out of it on Mway acceleration lanes too. I also enjoy driving up the A588 to Lancaster, where my average speed is probably no more than 40mph due to the nature of the road, but it's immensely good fun. Absolute speed is not important to me. I enjoy the acceleration, and the noise. I couldn't care less if it only did 80mph flat out... in fact... that would mean it would accelerate faster still :) I enjoy high speeds though, and have occasionally exceeded speed limits on motorways late at night... but not stupidly so. Besides.. I'm not having a go at your for having done it (as we all have to some extent), I was commenting on your attitude that seems to suggest you'd still do it despite having been banned. Clearly the punishment doesn't act as a deterrent.. that is all.



No.. too many cars causes heavy traffic.




My Micra is lovely and quiet. My Mustang on the other hand... you have to shout to make yourself heard :)




What? A small car is less manoeuvrable than a big one... you on drugs?



20? You ARE on drugs... LOL

You seriously think that you wouldn't want to do more than 20mph in a Nissan Micra? Sorry... but you're talking [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]. It cruises at motorway speeds quite happily, all day long. I once drive from Essex to Orkney and back in it.... it was just as comfortable, quiet and relaxed as a larger car.

I suspect your experience with small cars is very limited... or around 50 years out of date.
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All I said was a ton is fun. Just because something is fun doesn't mean I will repeat the exercise, not on a UK road anyway. Happy.

Acceleration I agree is great as is the sound of a decent engine or the smoothness of the drivetrain.

I'm finding myself drawn to luxo barges, not for the 150 odd top speed but the serenity and isolation from our roads. If I'm not hooning I want to be damned comfortable if I'm not
 
ST4 said:
A

A or the smoothness of the drivetrain.

I'm finding myself drawn to luxo barges, not for the 150 odd top speed but the serenity and isolation from our roads.
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Smoothness? Ya big fairy! :) I wanna hear the gears, and feel the engine. Why would a car enthusiast want t be isolated from the road? I wanna feel everything.

I think you're far more likely to speed in a car that wafts you along in silence and smoothness.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Smoothness? Ya big fairy! :) I wanna hear the gears, and feel the engine. Why would a car enthusiast want t be isolated from the road? I wanna feel everything.

I think you're far more likely to speed in a car that wafts you along in silence and smoothness.
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I want to disagree. I have no enjoyment from noise, vibration or toxic fumes. Comfortable, quiet but agile is my idea of a car. Once tesla releases their new SUV it will be my next dream car; for now it is Audi Q5.
 
Pookeyhead said:
You can do 70 in a 1 litre car. The problem with 20 plenties is them, not their vehicles :)
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I've got a 1 litre car that will do 110mph :D . That's at 9000rpm in 5th gear. If I changed the gearing it would probably manage something around 125mph. Naturally aspirated, two valves per cylinder etc.

daugirdas said:
underpowered cars are in a way dangerous. The best case scenario is something fairly average. I think 1.6TDI or equivalent is the lowest powered car I would dare to drive on our roads.

You will find the small shoeboxes are very low on security features. NCAP doesn't test for head on collisions with a bigger car for example. A mini or Aygo is a cat A or B scrap almost inevitably. Very slow acceleration causes heavy traffic; the cars are very noisy, and manoeuvrability is heavily compromised. While they are technically capable of 70, you really wouldn't want to go faster than 20 in them.
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Even the unmodified 875cc Hillman Imp I used to own would do 89mph on the flat with its 39bhp. It was entirely safe on motorways and could keep up with the traffic, the two years I ran it as my everyday car in the 1990s I did about 25,000 miles (which included several head gasket replacements), a lot of that on the M4. Lack of power isn't a problem on the motorway, unless the driver is terrible at driving. Lack of anticipation is a problem. If you don't anticipate then you will have problems, particularly in a small engined vehicle.

Anything, even my old Imp (0-60 time 24 seconds) would accelerate fast enough for normal driving and I never caused a queue of traffic in that car. I was prepared to use full throttle when accelerating and all the revs going through the gears though. Some people seem to think their engine will explode if they go over 3000rpm.

As for manoeuverability, it had a turning circle tighter than a London taxi. What sort of compromise is that?
 
daugirdas said:
I have plenty of experience in clio deathtrap. If you are behind lorry at 50 (on m'way) you have no chance to overtake if there is any traffic on lane 2 for example. Moving off at busy junctions is a game with death, etc. I became a safe driver overnight once I sold off the red grave.
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A decent, experienced driver would have some vision of what is ahead and not get stuck behind the lorry in the first place.
 
Having spent a fortnight in a small car (Aygo), I'm quite tempted to get something similar for town use here in the UK. On holiday, other than a few stretches of dual carriageway that have a 110km/h limit, we're restricted to 100 or less and the road surface (even on their major artery) is less than perfect so one has to play dodge the pothole (and lump of dropped concrete that's gone hard!), far easier (and safer) at 80 than 120! At the above speeds and even going up through the mountains, the baby Aygo was fine but at the higher speeds (and greater traffic density) encountered here in the UK (out of town), I'm happier with plenty of space and metal around me.

Have to admit that I'm with ST on the luxury over raw performance. Much as I love the sound of a V8, it gets boring after a while, especially when you have to shout to be heard over it. Even with the hood down in Mrs Nod's, we can chat at normal volumes.
 
Rapscallion said:
A decent, experienced driver would have some vision of what is ahead and not get stuck behind the lorry in the first place.
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You merge to a busy motorway (with some good luck) behind a very slow lorry. Then what? That is a very likely scenario. Not a problem in a current car...

onomatopoeia said:
I've got a 1 litre car that will do 110mph :D . That's at 9000rpm in 5th gear. If I changed the gearing it would probably manage something around 125mph. Naturally aspirated, two valves per cylinder etc.



Even the unmodified 875cc Hillman Imp I used to own would do 89mph on the flat with its 39bhp. It was entirely safe on motorways and could keep up with the traffic, the two years I ran it as my everyday car in the 1990s I did about 25,000 miles (which included several head gasket replacements), a lot of that on the M4. Lack of power isn't a problem on the motorway, unless the driver is terrible at driving. Lack of anticipation is a problem. If you don't anticipate then you will have problems, particularly in a small engined vehicle.

Anything, even my old Imp (0-60 time 24 seconds) would accelerate fast enough for normal driving and I never caused a queue of traffic in that car. I was prepared to use full throttle when accelerating and all the revs going through the gears though. Some people seem to think their engine will explode if they go over 3000rpm.

As for manoeuverability, it had a turning circle tighter than a London taxi. What sort of compromise is that?
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You started driving decades before me, when half (most?) cars were as bad as you describe... anticipation comes with good amount of experience (1-2 years behind the wheel) therefore sticking a novice driver in a deathtrap is a damn stupid idea. A black box is far better way to encourage them to behave properly. Btw now you deal mostly with big Audis, BMW 5'series, ST4, myself, and you suggest than 0 to 60 in 24s adequate... BS.
 
daugirdas said:
You merge to a busy motorway (with some good luck) behind a very slow lorry. Then what? That is a very likely scenario. Not a problem in a current car...
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You leave a large gap between you and the lorry so you can accelerate to overtake?

Are you really asking this?
 
boliston said:
The concept of having to go slower in order to go faster is lost on many people i'm afraid
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More likely bombing out of the slip lane in front of said truck and then straight into lane two with no regard for whoever may already be there.
 
daugirdas said:
Btw now you deal mostly with big Audis, BMW 5'series, ST4, myself, and you suggest than 0 to 60 in 24s adequate... BS.
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It's absolutely fine on todays roads. I also own a VW Caravelle T25 from 1987 with the horrid wasserboxer engine and that barely makes the 60mph it's allowed to do on the motorway. It's still entirely possible to drive that safely on the motorway, fast A roads, country lanes, in town, anywhere basically.

If you think you can't safely drive a vehicle that takes a long time (in relative terms) to reach 60mph then you are sorely misguided.
 
boliston said:
The concept of having to go slower in order to go faster is lost on many people i'm afraid
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Especially on people who think they can drive how they want,when they want and with no regard for any other road user.

Alas, it is becoming the norm now.
 
daugirdas said:
You merge to a busy motorway (with some good luck) behind a very slow lorry. Then what? That is a very likely scenario. Not a problem in a current car...



You started driving decades before me, when half (most?) cars were as bad as you describe... anticipation comes with good amount of experience (1-2 years behind the wheel) therefore sticking a novice driver in a deathtrap is a damn stupid idea. A black box is far better way to encourage them to behave properly. Btw now you deal mostly with big Audis, BMW 5'series, ST4, myself, and you suggest than 0 to 60 in 24s adequate... BS.
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Can you name me a car that takes 24 seconds to go from 0-60?
 
onomatopoeia said:
It's absolutely fine on todays roads. I also own a VW Caravelle T25 from 1987 with the horrid wasserboxer engine and that barely makes the 60mph it's allowed to do on the motorway. It's still entirely possible to drive that safely on the motorway, fast A roads, country lanes, in town, anywhere basically.

If you think you can't safely drive a vehicle that takes a long time (in relative terms) to reach 60mph then you are sorely misguided.
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Cars like this are the sole reason of frustration, and very significant amount of wasted time for other road users. Enjoy. I hope they get outlawed based on emissions, no NCAP rating or something like that.

Rapscallion said:
You leave a large gap between you and the lorry so you can accelerate to overtake?

Are you really asking this?
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Plenty for a sensible car and not had a problem ever since I sold the piece of turd. If you think that gaps on a busy M'way are more than 2-3 car lengths you are badly disillusioned.

viv1969 said:
More likely bombing out of the slip lane in front of said truck and then straight into lane two with no regard for whoever may already be there.
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I like the sound of this :) Now can I have M'way to Isle of Skye please?
 
fabs said:
Can you name me a car that takes 24 seconds to go from 0-60?
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One was mentioned somewhere above... I have no interest and desire to look up all dreadful cars ever made. I think the bloody clio I had was in the region of 20s.
 
daugirdas said:
One was mentioned somewhere above... I have no interest and desire to look up all dreadful cars ever made. I think the bloody clio I had was in the region of 20s.
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Drove a clio for 5 years. Admittedly it was a 1.2L but very little difference to a 1L. 0-60 was 11 seconds.
 
fabs said:
Drove a clio for 5 years. Admittedly it was a 1.2L but very little difference to a 1L. 0-60 was 11 seconds.
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I have no idea how you have to drive it to make it in 11s. My 1.9TDI is something around 10-11s and it is a world of difference to what my-ex or any other clio in my vicinity could do. Maybe running on with nitro booster and aviation grade fuel... Anyway I have no real desire to know. 11 or 20s it was still a 0 start NCAP death trap with no modern safety features.
 
fabs said:
Can you name me a car that takes 24 seconds to go from 0-60?
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Best I could do was the lada riva 1300 @ 0-60 mph: 16.90 s

Oooo more googling and
1973 drop head beetle
0 - 60 mph:

23.8 secs.

1968 Fiat 850
0 - 60 mph:

25.5 secs.

Aixam Coupe
0-60 mph: Won't happen

:D
 
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