Move Shoot Move or...?

Son_of_Thor

Son_of_Thor

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Not sure if this is the right place for this or not but in the absence of a 'Talk: Night & Astrophotography' section here goes...

Had a play with Astro whilst down on the South coast recently and really enjoyed it. I've fancied a star tracker/equatorial mount for a while now. I suspect it'll mostly get used with wide-angle primes (currently 20mm/35mm f1.8 but I may well add something wider sooner rather than later) for nighttime landscapes/astrophotography (Milky Way and such like). I've seen a few people using the Move Shoot Move trackers to good effect. The issue is I'd also like to have a go at shooting DSO Astro too. Longer lens options I've got include a 70-200 2.8 and 300 f4 with the former looking like a good option, but not with one of the MSM trackers as it's way over the weight rating and I suspect may well need a much bigger and sturdier tracker.

This is where the quandary is - I'd like to buy one tracker that I can use for both without it being so big/heavy/cumbersome that it'd never leave the house. I've looked at the Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer Pro range and these look like they'd be suitable for use with the 70-200, but at the expense of considerable extra weight/bulk. Possible even this wouldn't be heavy duty enough, I'm wary of load ratings after previous experience with tripods/heads. Is there a middle ground that I've missed here? Anyone on here with any experience that can help?
 
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hey, I am in exactly the same position as you after that trip down to south coast :ROFLMAO:
after looking in to for quite a while over the last few days I feel MSM is good enough for me and my skill level.
Even I eventually get into it a lot and I buy something more capable I'd still want a MSM as light kit.

But for me a 70-200mm style setup won't be all that bad. I can manage that within ~1.6Kgs :)
 
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nandbytes said:
hey, I am in exactly the same position as you after that trip down to south coast :ROFLMAO:
after looking in to for quite a while of the last few weeks I feel MSM is good enough for me and my skill level.
Even I eventually get into it a lot and I buy something more capable I'd still want a MSM as light kit.
Click to expand...

I'm blaming Durdle Door! :LOL:

I know what you mean, that thought had crossed my mind... having seen others using them they seem very easy to setup/use
 
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Son_of_Thor said:
I'm blaming Durdle Door! :LOL:

I know what you mean, that thought had crossed my mind... having seen others using them they seem very easy to setup/use
Click to expand...

its also just about cheap enough to try without losing too much money and/or have on the side along with a more expensive setup should you wish to buy one in the future.
 
I use an Ioptron SkyTracker Pro which is perfectly adequate for an A7 type body and a 70-200 lens without straining the gears excessively, my own setup of Astro modified A5000, Samyang 135mm f2 with 1.4x TC and a low profile ball head is a featherweight set up and the tracker copes with ease on multiple subs over several hours. I’m probably going to go for a heavier refractor telescope in the near future so will need a beefier tracker.

I’ll probably stick with an Ioptron model as I prefer the internal battery charging as opposed to the Star Adventurers replaceable batteries and the fact that the Ioptron polar scope is illuminated.
 
nandbytes said:
its also just about cheap enough to try without losing too much money and/or have on the side along with a more expensive setup should you wish to buy one in the future.
Click to expand...

That's a fair point, you're talking me into it... :)
 
footman said:
I use an Ioptron SkyTracker Pro which is perfectly adequate for an A7 type body and a 70-200 lens without straining the gears excessively, my own setup of Astro modified A5000, Samyang 135mm f2 with 1.4x TC and a low profile ball head is a featherweight set up and the tracker copes with ease on multiple subs over several hours. I’m probably going to go for a heavier refractor telescope in the near future so will need a beefier tracker.

I’ll probably stick with an Ioptron model as I prefer the internal battery charging as opposed to the Star Adventurers replaceable batteries and the fact that the Ioptron polar scope is illuminated.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, I'll take a look...
 
LeeRatters said:
For the cost of the MSM, I think I would go for both. There was a guy at Stonehenge the other week with one of the other trackers and it was a big old lump in comparison.
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Fair point Lee, it's looking like the obvious choice to get me started at least.

Now it's just a case of where I can get one from and what bundle as they don't seem to be available in the UK from what I can see
 
Son_of_Thor said:
Fair point Lee, it's looking like the obvious choice to get me started at least.

Now it's just a case of where I can get one from and what bundle as they don't seem to be available in the UK from what I can see
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you can use code "ALYN" to get 5% off.
I personally wanted to get the basic kit C i.e. with the scope and laser plus the Z&V mounting thingies.
 
Son_of_Thor said:
Fair point Lee, it's looking like the obvious choice to get me started at least.

Now it's just a case of where I can get one from and what bundle as they don't seem to be available in the UK from what I can see
Click to expand...

I got the Basic kit B - MSM and laser. Free longer shipping from China or you can/could select ship from UK supplies for a cost.
 
Also you need to be careful about which laser you get. This is one of the reasons I'm held up. I just can't decide what to do.

AFAIK you shouldn't actually use the more powerful one i.e. 5mW (class 3R) laser outside but the 1mW (class 2) laser you can use will be a bit dim for English skies.

@LeeRatters which laser did you get?
By default they send the more powerful one.
 
nandbytes said:
Also you need to be careful about which laser you get. This is one of the reasons I'm held up. I just can't decide what to do.

AFAIK you shouldn't actually use the more powerful one i.e. 5mW (class 3R) laser outside but the 1mW (class 2) laser you can use will be a bit dim for English skies.

@LeeRatters which laser did you get?
By default they send the more powerful one.
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Me either, I've seen the laser in action and it's pretty impressive. I'd be wary about using it due to the power/brightness. Also undecided
 
Son_of_Thor said:
Me either, I've seen the laser in action and it's pretty impressive. I'd be wary about using it due to the power/brightness. Also undecided
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as per the law we should not be using the more powerful one outside. the less powerful one is ok to use outside but will only work in the darkest of skies.

edit:
decoding the laws around this very hard because as far as I can see there isn't hard and fast rules around it in the UK. Its all more along the lines of guidelines and advices
eg: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...n-safety-advice/laser-radiation-safety-advice
www.bbc.co.uk

Everything you need to know about lasers (because people are pointing them at planes)

As a British Airways co-pilot reveals his eye was burnt by a laser during landing, we look at lasers and the damage they can do.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

certainly not illegal to own one though.

so you could probably get away with using class 3R outside but everything seems to suggest that it is not strongly recommended. though considering we'd only use it for a few seconds may be its ok?
 
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nandbytes said:
Also you need to be careful about which laser you get. This is one of the reasons I'm held up. I just can't decide what to do.

AFAIK you shouldn't actually use the more powerful one i.e. 5mW (class 3R) laser outside but the 1mW (class 2) laser you can use will be a bit dim for English skies.

@LeeRatters which laser did you get?
By default they send the more powerful one.
Click to expand...

Just bought the kit they sell. Didn't realise there were two different ones.
 
nandbytes said:
as per the law we should not be using the more powerful one outside. the less powerful one is ok to use outside but will only work in the darkest of skies.

edit:
decoding the laws around this very hard because as far as I can see there isn't hard and fast rules around it in the UK. Its all more along the lines of guidelines and advices
eg: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...n-safety-advice/laser-radiation-safety-advice
www.bbc.co.uk

Everything you need to know about lasers (because people are pointing them at planes)

As a British Airways co-pilot reveals his eye was burnt by a laser during landing, we look at lasers and the damage they can do.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

certainly not illegal to own one though.

so you could probably get away with using class 3R outside but everything seems to suggest that it is not strongly recommended. though considering we'd only use it for a few seconds may be its ok?
Click to expand...

I'd be tempted to go for one with the polar scope and laser for maximum flexibility/options
 
LeeRatters said:
I meant two different lasers.......

I bought the basic B kit. Already had two ballheads /tripods.
Click to expand...

Aah (penny drops), makes sense! I'm also sorted for tripod, geared head, headlamp, etc. so it'll be tracker, laser, poss polar scope and brackets for me
 
I have decided to buy this after my next trip (most likely Stonehenge). I am not keen on spending money and not using it. I need to know for myself I'll do this at least few times a year to be worth it.
 
nandbytes said:
I have decided to buy this after my next trip (most likely Stonehenge). I am not keen on spending money and not using it. I need to know for myself I'll do this at least few times a year to be worth it.
Click to expand...

I'm hovering over the 'buy' button. TBH, I could do to pay for my last acquisition first but the GAS may get the better of me. I need to get off my backside and get out of the house a lot more with the camera, but that seems to be an issue I have whatever the genre or target
 
Son_of_Thor said:
I'm hovering over the 'buy' button. TBH, I could do to pay for my last acquisition first but the GAS may get the better of me. I need to get off my backside and get out of the house a lot more with the camera, but that seems to be an issue I have whatever the genre or target
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There is certainly a large element of GAS for me too. I have a small cash flow issue at the moment which kinda means I haven't got the money ready to buy much right now.
The weather has been terrible till recently but its getting better now. so hoping to get out and about again.

planning for stonehenge around next new moon which is on July 10th, you are welcome to join :)
 
LeeRatters said:
I didn't bother with the V or Z brackets. Easily get the composition with just a ballhead and I'm not really interested in MW panoramic images.
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I wasn't convinced they were useful till I saw Alyn's video on them.
I like that I can use the V bracket on the rotator and stick it on to it permanently. makes for a smaller, lighter and more potable setup than an extra ball head (so I'll need to just pack my regular tripod setup and not worry about forgetting things).
The Z bracket seemed useful in general. Being able to do panos is always a bonus.
 
nandbytes said:
I wasn't convinced they were useful till I saw Alyn's video on them.
I like that I can use the V bracket on the rotator and stick it on to it permanently. makes for a smaller, lighter and more potable setup than an extra ball head (so I'll need to just pack my regular tripod setup and not worry about forgetting things).
The Z bracket seemed useful in general. Being able to do panos is always a bonus.
Click to expand...

Yeah, makes sense. I just don't know how much of a faff composing and re-leveling in the dark with the V bracket will be....
 
LeeRatters said:
Yeah, makes sense. I just don't know how much of a faff composing and re-leveling in the dark with the V bracket will be....
Click to expand...

I think alignment will be easier with V-bracket because you can move the axis independently. Once aligned you lock it in place.
Once you setup the Z-bracket to a flat level you leave it alone too and it'll alway maintain the flat level since its locked it.
now you mount your ballhead flat on the Z-bracket and now its easier to use.

Or I am just talking b*****ks since I haven't actually used any of this, but sounds nice in theory anyway.
 
nandbytes said:
I think alignment will be easier with V-bracket because you can move the axis independently. Once aligned you lock it in place.
Once you setup the Z-bracket to a flat level you leave it alone too and it'll alway maintain the flat level since its locked it.
now you mount your ballhead flat on the Z-bracket and now its easier to use.

Or I am just talking b*****ks since I haven't actually used any of this, but sounds nice in theory anyway.
Click to expand...

Ahh.. Sorry. I thought you meant V plate ON the MSM - tripod, ballhead, MSM, V plate, camera.

Ballhead for alignment is a breeze as long as you are used to using one. Than again, my boy isn't that used to using one regularly.

A V plate on the MSM may interest me as then there is no continuous connecting & unconnecting of components. But I use an L bracket so I'd still need something arca swiss on top of it....
 
Going sightly off topic (hope OP doesn't mind) what do people feel are the better lenses for astrophotography?

This is an interesting read:

How to Pick a Lens for Milky Way Photography – Lonely Speck

www.lonelyspeck.com www.lonelyspeck.com

I am kinda convinced primes are better than zooms. I tried buying the 14mm f1.8 but now feel that's a bit too wide. I really liked my 35mm f1.4 but I'm kinda feeling I shouldn't have sold the 20mm f1.8 or the 24mm f1.4 I had.

I have a 17-28mm f2.8 which is fine but having a faster aperture really seems to help.

Coming back on topic now.... Using MSM I'd probably be comfortable trying longer lenses and stitching. So if I am tracking I kinda don't care which lens I use because I'll be able to make any of them work.
So may be the most sensible option is to just buy the £200 MSM than spend money on lenses.....
 
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nandbytes said:
Going sightly off topic (hope OP doesn't mind) what do people feel are the better lenses for astrophotography?

This is an interesting read:

How to Pick a Lens for Milky Way Photography – Lonely Speck

www.lonelyspeck.com www.lonelyspeck.com

I am kinda convinced primes are better than zooms. I tried buying the 14mm f1.8 but now feel that's a bit too wide. I really liked my 35mm f1.4 but I'm kinda feeling I shouldn't have sold the 20mm f1.8 or the 24mm f1.4 I had.

I have a 17-28mm f2.8 which is fine but having a faster aperture really seems to help.

Coming back on topic now.... Using MSM I'd probably be comfortable trying longer lenses and stitching. So if I am tracking I kinda don't care which lens I use because I'll be able to make any of them work.
So may be the most sensible option is to just buy the £200 MSM than spend money on lenses.....
Click to expand...

I think f/2.8 is about the limit imo but obviously if you have a newer camera than me ISO can be not so much of an issue.

My recent Stonehenge was f/2.5, ISO 320 & 90 seconds for the sky. So really f/3.2, ISO 800 with a tracked exposure (and a newer camera body) should be no issue. If I ever remember, I might try the CV21/3.5 on the tracker. Then again, I've been meaning to compare the 35GM vs CV40/1.2 & the 20G vs CV21/3.5 & that hasn't happened yet :ROFLMAO:

20mm is about as wide as I'd want to go - & it's probably a little less by the time you lose a bit through blending/cropping.
 
nandbytes said:
yep I am pretty much decided on the kit I want i.e. basic kit C and I know I want the z/v mounts as they seem really useful.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H0yQWpAG0g&ab_channel=AlynWallace


As suggested in the video I can leave the V mount attached to the rotator and use the Z for adding my ballhead properly levelled.
Click to expand...

Having now watched the video, these seem like a very good idea, certainly for mounting a ballhead to the tracker. I intend to mount the tracker onto a geared head (when I finally bite and buy one). One of the guys shooting with a MSM @ Durdle Door was having issues with centre of gravity/overbalancing and one of these mounts would've sorted the issues he was experiencing I'd say
 
nandbytes said:
I think alignment will be easier with V-bracket because you can move the axis independently. Once aligned you lock it in place.
Once you setup the Z-bracket to a flat level you leave it alone too and it'll alway maintain the flat level since its locked it.
now you mount your ballhead flat on the Z-bracket and now its easier to use.

Or I am just talking b*****ks since I haven't actually used any of this, but sounds nice in theory anyway.
Click to expand...

It does sound good in theory, think I'll probably buy at least one of them when I buy a tracker to try it out
 
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