Malaysian Airlines MH17 - plane crash, near Donetsk, Ukraine.

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Sky News reporting a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 has crashed.

Flight MH17 Amsterdam to Kuala Lampur, has been confirmed to have crashed near the Russian border just east of Donetsk in Ukraine.

Flight was last reported to be flying at 33000ft.

Interfax News Agency are reporting the plane was shot down at altitude, so far unsubstantiated.
 
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It was brought down by a ground-to-air missile, an adviser to the Ukrainian interior ministry quoted by the news agency said.
 
Being reported as having been shot down by a Russian BUK anti-air system.

Russia and Ukraine both listed as having the BUK system.

The plane was supposedly heading very close to the Russian border, some reports are hypothesising Russian shoot down as it was too close to the border.
 
Terrible news :-(
 
Shoot first, ask questions later :(
 
gramps said:
Shoot first, ask questions later :(
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The excuse that Malaysian Airlines planes don't have full tracking/ID equipment like European planes is no excuse either, if the Russians shot this down as a threat it's criminal.

Actually, if anyone shot it down on purpose, it's criminal :(.
 
It's not been a good year for Malaysian Airlines.
 
Whatever or whoever is responsible for this...
1. 295 seem to have lost their lives
2. Malaysian Airlines probably won't survive this second disaster in such a short time - Pan Am didn't survive the loss of confidence in them after one disaster, and other airlines service KL.
 
A real tradegy is in the offing here, part of me is really desperate this is a tragic meganical failure as if the as of yet unsubstantiated reports are correct this could get very messy very quickly :(

Thoughts to all those that will have lost loved ones :(

Very bad year for MAS
 
Another report and crash scene photos included (some graphic, but require a secondary click to open).

http://wwwSPAMfeed.com/mikehayes/malaysian-airliner-crash-ukraine
 
Awful news.

Our flight back from Asia recently was diverted around Ukrainian air space causing a bit of a delay.

It makes you wonder why some operators avoid the airspace and what intelligence prompted them to do so?
 
Allegedly at 30,000 feet and beyond the range of 'small' ground to air missiles.
 
Dave1 said:
Being reported as having been shot down by a Russian BUK anti-air system.

Russia and Ukraine both listed as having the BUK system.

The plane was supposedly heading very close to the Russian border, some reports are hypothesising Russian shoot down as it was too close to the border.
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I would be very surprised if this was the case, as it's a passenger plane and I don't there there is a no fly zone over Russian airspace. The reports I've read suggest that air traffic controllers in Russia were expecting it to arrive and to take over but the plane never arrived in Russian airspace.
 
MWHCVT said:
A real tradegy is in the offing here, part of me is really desperate this is a tragic meganical failure as if the as of yet unsubstantiated reports are correct this could get very messy very quickly :(

Thoughts to all those that will have lost loved ones :(

Very bad year for MAS
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I have to agree.
As awful as mechanical failure would still be, the thought of it being deliberately brought down is pretty scary.
 
All air traffic being told to divert away from flight path over that area.
 
Garry Edwards said:
.....
2. Malaysian Airlines probably won't survive this second disaster in such a short time - Pan Am didn't survive the loss of confidence in them after one disaster, and other airlines service KL.
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I don't think a state owned airline (majority, at least) will suffer in the same way that Pan-Am did. Shareholders are far more fickle than governments who want a revenue earning flag carrier.
 
All air traffic being told to divert away from flight path over that area.
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Advise, not tell.

To shoot an airliner down at that hight, you need radar guided missile systems. Or a great deal of luck with a long range SAM.
The rebels, apparently don't have such a system. The Ukrainian Government wouldn't have much need to fire a missile at an aircraft. The Russians wouldn't be that stupid, and in any case their system is so bureaucratic the aircraft would be on the Ground ion Malaysia by the time they decided to fire.

So in other words, just cause it crashed it doesn't mean it was shoot down. And the fact it crashed might mean in was.

As things stand, no one knows anything, apart from there's a smoking heap of 777 in a field.

Will MAS survive? Turkish did, BA did, BM did, many airlines do, especially if it wasn't their fault.

Edit: Mind you the video currently on sky news, shows the main bits burning and other bits still falling. So mid air break up would fit. Be that structural failure, bomb, or external explosion.
 
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Canon Bob said:
I don't think a state owned airline (majority, at least) will suffer in the same way that Pan-Am did. Shareholders are far more fickle than governments who want a revenue earning flag carrier.
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I fear the result will be the same if no one will fly with them.
 
Terrible news indeed :(

I wonder what the true details of the other missing plane were, how much of that story was buried under the carpet we'll never know.
 
The UK's Department for Transport (DfT) has told aircraft already in the air to avoid Ukrainian airspace.
A spokesperson said that "flights already airborne are being routed around the area by air traffic control in the region".
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Bernie174 said:
Advise, not tell.

To shoot an airliner down at that hight, you need radar guided missile systems. Or a great deal of luck with a long range SAM.
The rebels, apparently don't have such a system. The Ukrainian Government wouldn't have much need to fire a missile at an aircraft. The Russians wouldn't be that stupid, and in any case their system is so bureaucratic the aircraft would be on the Ground ion Malaysia by the time they decided to fire.

So in other words, just cause it crashed it doesn't mean it was shoot down. And the fact it crashed might mean in was.

As things stand, no one knows anything, apart from there's a smoking heap of 777 in a field.

Will MAS survive? Turkish did, BA did, BM did, many airlines do, especially if it wasn't their fault.

Edit: Mind you the video currently on sky news, shows the main bits burning and other bits still falling. So mid air break up would fit. Be that structural failure, bomb, or external explosion.
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Pro-Russian rebels announced they'd shot down a Ukrainian air force cargo plane in the same area minutes before news of the crash came to light. Apparently using captured surface to air missile equipment that they'd been tweeting about earlier in the week. Their announcement was then removed from the internet.
Looks like the most likely scenario from the little information we have is that rebels shot it down, believing it to be Ukrainian air force.
 
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I fear the result will be the same if no one will fly with them.
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If its cheap, people will fly with them. The public have short memories, and if it's shown not to be their fault, then a philosophical, "It could happen to any airline" will doubtless take over. As I said, plenty of airlines have survived far worse.

Pro-Russian rebels announced they'd shot down a Ukrainian air force cargo plane in the same area minutes before news of the crash came to light. Apparently using captured surface to air missile equipment that they'd been tweeting about earlier in the week. Their announcement was then removed from the internet.
Looks like the most likely scenario from the little information we have is that rebels shot it down, believing it to be Ukrainian air force.
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Possibly. The trouble is that Terrorist groups are apt to claim responsibility for things that happen, even when they had nothing to do with it. It's a freebie for them. It's possible that they learned about the crash, and jumped in, withdrawing a bit swiftly when it became obvious that it would end badly if it was thought they'd done it. I agree it's the more likely option at the moment though.
 
The Russians wouldn't be that stupid
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... is this the same government that suggested recently that the British Government sort out the issues with the Argentines over The Falklands? Hello Mr. Putin???
 
neil_g said:
I'm with Bernie on this.


Do the DfT have any influence over a non uk operator departing from a non uk airport?

From what I've read it was advised, not demanded, that operators diverted around the area.
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I have no idea! ... you read one thing, I read another, Bernie presumably read something else ... in the whole event does it really, really matter enough to make such an issue about it? :thinking:
 
No Gramps, I didn't read anything, but I do understand and know something about Air Traffic Control.
The CAA are the UK regulator, not the control authority, and even if they were, they don't mandate routes over other countries.
The local Air Traffic Management organisation can, but in this case hadn't at the level the MH was at, the restriction ended 1000 feet below it's flight level.
The controller who was working the aircraft, and there would have been one as the aircraft was operating on IFR, would have been fully aware of where the aircraft was, and it's hight, and if he or the crew didn't want to be there, he would have been steered round it.
 
So "mature" is arguing over words when around 300 people have died?
 
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