Lance Armstrong

topazed said:
If Lance is stripped of his 7 titles, which some are saying USADA have no jurisdiction to do so, who's to say that the runners-up of those years were not artificially enhancing their performance?

Their drug tests might be clear, but then again so were LA's.
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I really can't see the ASO happy with Jan Ullrich being given 5 titles.
 
jacob12_1993 said:
This is one of the saddest days in sport ever IMO. Regardless of whether he doped or not. He was an idol for many young cyclists (me included), many other sports people and also thousands of cancer sufferers. The part I don't understand is how does USADA have the power to strip him of his TdF titles when the UCI/WADA decided not to proceed with the whole thing? The only evidence they have (after him being tested around 600 times in his career) is the testimonies of a few proven cheats and apparently some current pros (who strangely are still allowed to compete despite admitting doping?!?).
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But do you think he ever doped?
 
I don't necessarily have much of an opinion on whether Lance Armstrong doped because the evidence is limited, but what really ****es me off is that other cyclists have admitted doping and testified against him but can still race today. It shouldn't matter if you win the TDF 7 times or come last 7 times; if you dope you should get banned for life. Seems like a huge injustice to me in pursuit of Armstrong alone, but not in pursuit of cleaning up sport.
 
Why ban the athletes that dope and finish out of the medals? Isn't it funny laughing at how pathetic they are, can't even win when cheating!
 
j07cmt said:
Why ban the athletes that dope and finish out of the medals? Isn't it funny laughing at how pathetic they are, can't even win when cheating!
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But the winners have better drugs.......
 
Looking back at the runners up of TdF during LA's reign, most of them have served bans for doping at one time or another.
 
Just done a bit of research and once they've excluded all the drug cheats on the TDF..........



I've won it for the last 30 years !
 
By refusing to mount a defence in the US Anti-Doping Agency's case against him, Lance Armstrong has – whatever equivocation and claims of persecution he persists in – all but conceded that he won his seven Tour de France titles by doping. And by walking away from a defence he has ceded those yellow jerseys and lost his status as the most remarkable serial winner in the history of the sport.
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Not exactly a surprise though, these allegations have followed him for years.
 
I Love watching the big Tour races and have been watching them for many years and the drug taking is out of control I Loved watching Armstrong in his era but I have always believed he was taking something

his vast army of Lawyers have kept him out of trouble for a number of years but now I think his time has come
I think he will be found guilty and stripped of a large Majority of his tour wins
 
Just a quick question.

During his professional career how many times was LA tested for doping?

Out of all those tests, how many were positive?

I don't get how he can be charged
 
Lynton said:
Just a quick question.

During his professional career how many times was LA tested for doping?

Out of all those tests, how many were positive?

I don't get how he can be charged
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That's the crux of the matter. He's not failed any. All USADA have is a bunch of lying cheats that are willing to testify against him. Those that are still involved in the sport (Hincapie for example) have been offered immunity for their testimony. Scum like Hamilton and Landis have nothing to lose now. After years of lying they both eventually came clean. Those last 2 in particular were team-mates of Armstrong, both failed test (along with Andreu) , both claim that LA was the ring-leader in the doping scheme yet mysteriously LA never failed those same tests. The whole thing stinks.
 
Lynton said:
Just a quick question.

During his professional career how many times was LA tested for doping?

Out of all those tests, how many were positive?

I don't get how he can be charged
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the situation with drug cheating has always been keeping one step ahead of the testers so a couple of years down the line the testers have new testing procedures that will show up any problems with old samples which the UCI keeps for years
what Lance Armstrong has been doing is have a team of the best Lawyers on Planet earth arguing that they should not be allowed to retest old samples

he finally lost this argument a couple of years ago but even more hearings Lawyers and delays have brought it to the point we are at now

6 former members of Armstrongs team have spilt the beans resulting in them all getting a reduced 6 month ban instead of the normal 2yr ban

all have made statements against Johan Bruyneel (Team boss) and Armstrong so now we await the outcome of the Court case

which will no doubt take another 5 years
 
Buttkicker said:
the situation with drug cheating has always been keeping one step ahead of the testers ........
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Yet SOMEHOW those testers managed to get Hamilton, Landis, Andreu et al but not Armstrong, even though Armstrong was said to be a key player....Doesn't make sense does it.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Yet SOMEHOW those testers managed to get Hamilton, Landis, Andreu et al but not Armstrong, even though Armstrong was said to be a key player....Doesn't make sense does it.
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Ricardo your support for Armstrong is admirable but the facts are that he himself will no longer continue this fight

I think his Lawyers will be doing there best efforts to keep him out of Jail

so it is rather pointless arguing his case to the ends of the Earth
He is going to be stripped of most of his titles and banned for life

and in my opinion if cycling really want to clean up there game they should ban all convited drug cheats for life
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Yet SOMEHOW those testers managed to get Hamilton, Landis, Andreu et al but not Armstrong, even though Armstrong was said to be a key player....Doesn't make sense does it.
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What about Riise? He never tested positive but later admitted doping? Just because he didn't get caught doesn't mean he didn't do it.

Also there are lots of ways of masking the signs of drug use, apparently cyclists used to rub salt into their testicles :suspect: to produce a rash so they could be prescribed corticosteroids which then mask the peformance enhancing steroids :eek: This combined with older drug testing tech back in 1999-2005 means that it would have been much easier than now
 
Buttkicker said:
Breaking News on this case

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...not-to-contest-USADA-doping-charges-live.html

Armstrong is not going to contest the drug charges - hardly the actions of an innocent person
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That's not breaking news. I read it 7 hours ago when I woke up.

He was in a no win situation. In the absence of a positive test USADA have made it clear they will convict him on the word of lying cheating scum.
USADA are acting alone, without the support of WADA, the UCI or ASO. Does that not seem very strange to you?
 
jacob12_1993 said:
What about Riise? He never tested positive but later admitted doping? Just because he didn't get caught doesn't mean he didn't do it.
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No, you are right of course. But the way that USADA are packaging this is that whatever Armstrong did, the other members of Motorola did....
 
I don't know if he did or didn't, my position is that USADA HAVE undergone a witch hunt, someone has a vendetta. They have no evidence other than the hearsay of convicted cheats. They have acted out of line with WORLD doping body, the WORLD cycling governing body and the organiser of the TdeF.
If they are going to sanction him, then it should be based on evidence not hearsay. Haven't Hamilton and Landis in particular PROVED time and time again they are liars?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I don't know if he did or didn't, my position is that USADA HAVE undergone a witch hunt, someone has a vendetta. They have no evidence other than the hearsay of convicted cheats. They have acted out of line with WORLD doping body, the WORLD cycling governing body and the organiser of the TdeF.
If they are going to sanction him, then it should be based on evidence not hearsay. Haven't Hamilton and Landis in particular PROVED time and time again they are liars?
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I totally agree with the fact that I don't understand how USADA can do what they are doing. Also agree that Hamiliton and Landis are unreliable witnesses but what about Hincapie, Vande Valde et al? Also Armstrong has been known to lie aswell (see my earlier link about simeoni) :thumbs:
 
Ricardo its breaking news to this forum and thread

I am finding hard to understand how you are so vocal in support of an Athlete that has abused the system and was clearly the ringleader in this debacle

yet the minute he is charged even he realizes the game is up - yet you seem to be getting more vociferous in his defence

if you think he was riding clean I think you are in a very small minority
 
Buttkicker said:
yet the minute he is charged even he realizes the game is up - yet you seem to be getting more vociferous in his defence

if you think he was riding clean I think you are in a very small minority
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Who knows why he has isn't defending himself.

How can he win 7 TDFs and never been caugh. Proof, proof, proof, where is the proof and not just from USADA, bu from all the countries in which he was tested...I suspect it was at least 7 times in France.

Shambles, if ya ask me....
 
posiview said:
Who knows why he has isn't defending himself.

How can he win 7 TDFs and never been caugh. Proof, proof, proof, where is the proof and not just from USADA, bu from all the countries in which he was tested...I suspect it was at least 7 times in France.

Shambles, if ya ask me....
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Approximately 5-600 times in his career. I believe the yellow jersey/race leader/important riders are tested at the ends of pretty much every stage and also randomly tested (i.e middle of the night once apparently) between
 
posiview said:
Who knows why he has isn't defending himself.
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its called evidence he knows the game is now up - now from here on out it is damage limitation and doing his best from staying out of prison

it is a sorry state sadly hopefully the exploits of the British cyclists this year can soften the flavour of these unsavoury events

but till they make a firm stand against drug cheats and ban them for life it will continue
 
Buttkicker said:
its called evidence he knows the game is now up - now from here on out it is damage limitation and doing his best from staying out of prison

it is a sorry state sadly hopefully the exploits of the British cyclists this year can soften the flavour of these unsavoury events

but till they make a firm stand against drug cheats and ban them for life it will continue
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What evidence?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
What evidence?
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The charges
The agency charged that Armstrong not only used EPO, Coriticosteriods, Testosterone, Human Growth Hormone and blood transfusions, but also masked the use of these performance enhancing drugs and methods with saline and plasma infusions. Additionally, it alleged Armstrong, during his time with the US Postal Service and Discovery Channel, encouraged and facilitating doping by his teammates.

Six of his former team mates have all pleaded guilty to the above and accepted a 6 month ban

at this point this where I opt out of this debate as we own have our own opinions on the this matter and feel we are now going round in circles

Now where is that Alberto Contador thread!!!!
 
Buttkicker said:
The charges
The agency charged that Armstrong not only used EPO, Coriticosteriods, Testosterone, Human Growth Hormone and blood transfusions, but also masked the use of these performance enhancing drugs and methods with saline and plasma infusions. Additionally, it alleged Armstrong, during his time with the US Postal Service and Discovery Channel, encouraged and facilitating doping by his teammates.

Six of his former team mates have all pleaded guilty to the above and accepted a 6 month ban

at this point this where I opt out of this debate as we own have our own opinions on the this matter and feel we are now going round in circles

Now where is that Alberto Contador thread!!!!
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As you said, they are charges, not evidence.
 
There's hundreds of cases throughout history where people have cracked under emotional pressure and either given up fighting or admitted wrongdoing to stop it going on. That's not to mention the immense financial cost to Lance in putting up a defence against what he has quite rightly labelled a witch-hunt.

As I've said already, I'm not a big fan of Lance Armstrong and if he has cheated he should rightly lose his titles, but the evidence brought against him in this case is poor, the punishments they have sought for Lance and those who were willing to testify against him are worlds apart despite the crimes being the same.

To assume you know he's cheated when you probably know nothing of the sport, PEDs, or the testing to detect such substances is frankly absurd.

Similarly, to assume that losing the willingness to fight charges is an admission of guilt is equally wrong.

Lance has been pursued for doping for over a decade despite passing doping tests which his 'co-conspirators' failed. It's very understandable if after so long of fighting accusations that show no sign of ever being given up on regardless of the evidence, he should finally fold.

Like I say, this isn't to say I support Armstrong, but the lynch mob that follows him despite minimal evidence spits in the face of due process and all that a justice system should stand for. By all means charge someone on the back of failed drug tests or other strong evidence, but using the testimonies of guilty people being let off with lesser charges for their own testimonies should never be considered enough evidence to rip apart a man's career.
 
TriggerHappy said:
Like I say, this isn't to say I support Armstrong, but the lynch mob that follows him despite minimal evidence spits in the face of due process and all that a justice system should stand for. By all means charge someone on the back of failed drug tests or other strong evidence, but using the testimonies of guilty people being let off with lesser charges for their own testimonies should never be considered enough evidence to rip apart a man's career.
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Well said. That about sums it up.
 
jacob12_1993 said:
Approximately 5-600 times in his career. I believe the yellow jersey/race leader/important riders are tested at the ends of pretty much every stage and also randomly tested (i.e middle of the night once apparently) between
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That's wonderboys PR crap, it's more like 2-300. There is a lot of rumour that the UCI are involved in a cover up, I repeat rumour, but they all made a lot of money from the Lance years.

Reason he didn't take it further? Would he want to risk lying under oath on court....?

Livestrong is a big fraud as well, not one $ goes to cancer research...all to cancer awareness, whatever that means...
 
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Stripped of the TdeF and every race since 1998 for Lance...no messing about there then.....I wish more governing bodies did the same regarding dopers.
 
tiler65 said:
Stripped of the TdeF and every race since 1998 for Lance...no messing about there then.....I wish more governing bodies did the same regarding dopers.
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You're a bit previous. It hasn't happened yet. There is still some discussion whether a domestic organisation can actually do that.

Le Tour is run by the ASO under the governence of the UCI. Not by USADA.
 
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Here's the UCI POV:

No further comment until USADA “reasoned decision” is issued

The UCI will now await the “reasoned decision” which the USADA must issued as the next step in its anti-doping case against Lance Armstrong. Only then will the international federation have a further comment on the case, it said.

In a statement issued Friday afternoon, the UCI said that it noted Armstrong's decision not to go to arbitration, and also that USADA is reported to have said it will strip Armstrong of his results since 1998 and give him a lifetime ban.

The UCI cited the World Anti Doping Code article which “states that where no hearing occurs the Anti-Doping Organisation with results management responsibility shall submit to the parties concerned (Mr Armstrong, WADA and UCI) a reasoned decision explaining the action taken.”

It went on to say that it “expects that it will issue a reasoned decision in accordance with Article 8.3 of the Code.

“Until such time as USADA delivers this decision the UCI has no further comment to make.”
 
Looking likely he will get all of his results stripped since 1998, which means I will have won more races than Lance in the past 14 years :)
 
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