kids being labelled to avoid responsibility

Let's hope you continue this public service :eek:

Why does it matter where it started? Who are you to dictate what people wear and how they wear it?

Well, a court in Florida (IIRC) has decreed that the law is now on the statute books that pants (trousers) are to be worn correctly - not revealing undergarments. The "YOOF" can get pulled up (pardon the pun) by the local law enforcement.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/862676-florida-teenagers-could-be-forced-to-pull-their-pants-up-by-new-law

:clap:
 
It actually originated from the american prison system, anybody wearing their prison trousers below their pants was a sign to other inmates that they are someone elses bitch and not to be touched.

I shouted out to some chav "so who do you belong to then pretty boy?" Its fair to say he didn't find it funny.
Not heard that before, story I'd heard it originated in poorer areas of US cities where guys had hand-me-down trousers from their bigger brothers, so waists were baggy. No wonder the kid didn't find it funny, surprised he didn't report you :lol:

But anyway that's just kids fashion, regardless of where it came from. Well behaved kids can dress that way too...
 
Last edited:
My trousers are often around my arse....because I'm a fat git with no hips and my belt wont hold them up:bonk:

This thread has restored my faith inasmuch as I'm glad I'm not the only miserable old sod here:lol:

And that Daily Mail vid..........classic:clap:
 
Personally - and this is just my, probably, misguided opinion is that there are probably some genuine cases out there, however society has evolved in such a way where a proportion of it, thinks the world owes it to them, benefits this, that, and the other, and again whilst there are genuine needs and cases, others are swinging it.........."lets say this and get an extra £x a week syndrome"

Therefore those generally unaffected by x y or z on a day to day basis, are probably more cynical than others........ and that is the camp where I tend to make my bed.

Not judging any individual etc, though many times I have witnessed scenarios akin to which the OP mentions and thought, a short sharp shock (smack on the bum) will resolve, however given the liberal attitude of the last 10-15 yrs, Jocasta and Tarquin seem to be needed to be treated as adults (despite being 3 and 5) and any interference from mummy and daddy will cripple their upbringing / creativeness..........
 
For those interested, I highly recommend Theodore Dalrymple's book, "Life at the Bottom" for an excellent discussion of the "medicalisation" of all sorts of problems.

90% of the criminals I meet blame their behaviour on some sort of disorder, illness or their friends, and excuse their (subnormal) behaviour by reference to external forces beyond their control.
 
For those interested, I highly recommend Theodore Dalrymple's book, "Life at the Bottom" for an excellent discussion of the "medicalisation" of all sorts of problems.

90% of the criminals I meet blame their behaviour on some sort of disorder, illness or their friends, and excuse their (subnormal) behaviour by reference to external forces beyond their control.

Are these the same criminals that are all gobby and will take on the world until they are put on the floor and in handcuffs then cry like little girls because the cuffs are to tight and scream you are hurting me.:D
 
ladysue said:
I hate the fact that children are put on drugs that affect their brains when this is totally unnecessary. I have found that most children diagnosed with ADHD will sit down and pay attention when given something interesting to do and an adult paying them positive attention. This shows that they dont have an attention deficit disorder.

Doesn't that show that the problem of the child being hyperactive is caused by the lack of structured attention, seems to me you are proving the point you're trying to discredit.

Feel the need to throw my hat in the ring too...
I have worked with young people for about the last 15 years, first as a youth worker and now as a secondary school teacher and have seen a lot of excuses made for kids as the OP says. I totally believe the vast majority of issues I deal with could be avoided with better parenting but society accepts much more than it did even 10 years ago.

Many of todays parents were the kids hyped up on colourings back in the 80s and they didn't have parents who stopped them so they don't really see a problem with their kid doing it today. Just look how many parents give unhealthy drinks and snacks to infants. What happens in 10/15 years when the drug fuelled clubbing 90s ravers kids grow up will be interesting to see!

However there are a lot of cases that deserve merit and the more we understand the better we can work with the person. I do not believe in pandering to
lazy or rude kids but I think of my mother who was beaten and had her hand tied behind her back so she would not write with her left hand, we don't want to look back in 30 years and see ourselves as having the same kind of attitude those "educators" did.

I think kids have always acted up for attention but there are some people who really do have issues with ADD or ADHD.
There are so many people with horror stories of school, if I know a student has ADHD or something similar then I can work with that and use particular strategies that will help the person. I think I would be quite simply mean to not try and help that person succeed through the difficulty or to ridicule their problems and instead expect them to just behave the way I want them to without consideration of their struggles.

I agree with the OP and think more people should challenge the parents who make excuses for their children but I know also know people whose parents have understood how to talk to them more effectively and teach them how to deal with their behavioural issues, some with the aid of medication as it was so severe. One guy I know was saved from throwing away his education and was on a bad road with violent outbursts and everything as a result of his condition, he believes the diagnosis and meds and hard work of his parents saved him from totally messing his life up.

I don't think we should automatically dismiss such problems as easily as some have already but I totally agree that the condition should not be an excuse for such behaviour.
 
Last edited:
As we're all made of the same stuff it's easy for me to imagine that we'd behave in similar ways in similar situations and to an extent we do. There are baffling differences though and these e numbers and colourings and things are a good example. Why should some people be affected by them while others show no detectable effects at all? We're all humans and all built the same so why should e thingies affect / not affect us differently? I for example can eat or drink whatever I want and it has no effect at all on my mood, personality or behaviour... unless it's booze of course.
 
Doesn't that show that the problem of the child being hyperactive is caused by the lack of structured attention, seems to me you are proving the point you're trying to discredit.


I am merely suggesting that the problem is situational and could be analysed and treated behaviourally rather than saying that the child always needs drugs to address the behaviour. I accept that a few children have a disorder but believe that far too many are being diagnosed with a mental health disorder and medicated.
 
My wife teaches and is head of reception at a really nice C of E school. The school is in what I class as a good, working class area, most of the parents seem very nice. However when the children start school, these parents seem to expect my wife and the other teachers/assistants to teach their children manners etc.
My question is this. What do "modern" parents actually do with their children from birth to school age?
When my daughter started at school she could count well, knew her address, could dress herself and knew she was expected to say please and thank you. Equally we would sit with her and read stories and talk about the school day. It wasn't difficult or particularly time consuming but it was what we considered as essential in her upbringing.
It seems that nowadays the parents do sweet f a and expect teachers to cover for them.
We can't blame the children but we can blame the parents. Perhaps it is they that need educating first.

/rant off

Andy


+1
 
I really have to agree. My Mother has had me labelled with Autism after going to a variety of different pshycologists etc before she got the result she wanted. When I was diagnosed, I was about 15 and was not told directly and the rest of my family to this day so not believe that I have Autism. after leaving my parents I have seen that the traits which "betrayed" me as autistic where all things which my mother forced me into. Since leaving them I have lost all traits and function completely normally with a social life which would be unacheivable for even the lowest end Autistic. I'm so glad I left them!
 
My child has absolute highest level of Autism you can get (and is in special school). Any "bad behaviour" is 100% down to his Autism and attempting to discipline him in any way would make his Autism worse. The fact that he can't talk rather does excuse him saying please or thank you .

The tired old line "they are just like normal children really" makes me want to chew my own arm off with rage.
 
My child has absolute highest level of Autism you can get (and is in special school). Any "bad behaviour" is 100% down to his Autism and attempting to discipline him in any way would make his Autism worse. The fact that he can't talk rather does excuse him saying please or thank you .

The tired old line "they are just like normal children really" makes me want to chew my own arm off with rage.

Helen. I am sorry to hear that your son has such severe problems. As you say it is not possible to discipline children with autism. It is more about trying to make their life as non-threatening as possible. I hope you are getting the help and support you need.
 
Thanks Sue and you are quite correct he has to feel like he is in control of the situation, although as you will know that's more complicated than it sounds as you have to factor in trust.

His school and outside support have been amazing, you hear all sorts of reactions about "evil social services" and what not but when we moved here we were assigned a children's disability social worker as matter of course and the funding and help she sorted out before signing us over to the school parent support lady was astonishing.

My only real gripe is that we only get 2 hours of respite a week, it should be more but a vast (out of proportion) percentage of charity and funding money goes to London.

oh and carers are not eligible for any free government funded courses as you have to sign a form saying you will go back to work after doing one, which you can't do because you are a carer.... Hello, I'm the massive gap in your CV making you totally unemployable in 20 years time, would you like your mcdonalds application form now or later?
 
if you actually look at the side of a red bull can it actually says not to be sold to anyone under 16, most corner shops and retailers are actually unaware of this. I once pointed out this to some shop keeper who was about to sell it to a 10 year old.

Red Bull :bang::bang::bang: this and drinks like it ( which in no way are energy dinks ) are chocked full of caffine, no wonder people bounce off walss when drinking them, especially if mixed with booze.
 
Red Bull :bang::bang::bang: this and drinks like it ( which in no way are energy dinks ) are chocked full of caffine, no wonder people bounce off walss when drinking them, especially if mixed with booze.

a quick google suggests that a can of redbull has the same levels of caffine as a cup of coffee.
 
a quick google suggests that a can of redbull has the same levels of caffine as a cup of coffee.

And coffee has less caffeine than tea. It tends to be the taurine and other things in red bull that people have an issue with I think. Of course, I don't drink tea, coffee or energy drinks because i'm clean living....it's whiskey or nothing for me :lol:
 
a quick google suggests that a can of redbull has the same levels of caffine as a cup of coffee.

I bow to your google skills sir:clap: and agree its not as high as I was lead to beleive, I wont derail an interesting thread by bringing the booze & caffine question into it, thats for another day :thumbs:
 
I dont agree with this. There was plenty of corporal punishment when I was at school but we still did everything we could to push the clothes boundaries. I remember rolling my school skirt up at the waist to make it shorter as soon as I got away from home and being made to wash off make up at school.

In most mens eyes i think they would prefer to see a short skirt with the occasional flash of white knickers. Not the top of a boys jeans showing half of his kalvin klein y fronts from the waistband down. :lol:
 
Regarding the OP's original post;this link here is worth a read & his pages have some other articles which the OP might find interesting about Autism & Aspergers.
 
Last edited:
Totally agree with the OP and a lot of the sentiment in this thread!

I'm not a parent yet but hope to be one day. An ex of mine had a 6 year old girl who I can only describe as having serious rage issues but I have to say that the way she was disciplined was very hit & miss. Sometimes she'd get a massive rollicking for someone trivial and nothing when she was being a little cow!!! Plus the whole family are renowned for being hot headed..... perhaps it was to be expected.

Anyway, one of my nieces will be 3 in September. She's extremely bright and as cute as a button! From the age of two she could unlock an iPhone, select a game and just get on with it.

Sometimes she can be a right little madam though and VERY strong minded but my sister and bro-in-law (and to a point me and both sets of grandparents) are equally strong minded when it comes to discipline and from quite an early age got to know what the naughty step is and she never gets away with anything!!!

Some people might think that's harsh but by not acting strongly when kids are very young, you get these 5 year old monsters that have "ADHD" or the like. Whenever Libby's naughty she gets dealt with and as cliché as it sounds, is told exactly what it is she's done wrong and that she must not behave like it again. Generally she does understand.

Saw some right little monsters on my recent holiday to Fuerterventra but then you see the way the parents try to deal with them and you're left in no doubt how things got so bad........
 
one thing i have noticed the poor council estates are full of people with adhd (top up the benefits thank you very much, new iphone) and the more upper class posher estates probably may have the odd one, but we could put that down to spoilt little brat syndrome. Thats probably an unfair judgement really, but i wouldn't be surprised.

Yep it sure is, this thread is astonishing written by people who really should know better. I don't believe that ADHD or Autism is class driven or an 'excuse' for bad behaviour, nor is it bad parenting but are actual conditions that cause the children to be judged by uneducated daily mail readers. Any belief otherwise distracts and belittles those that suffer these conditions.
 
The OP certainly wasn't suggesting that, just that 'too many' seem to be using the condition(s) as an excuse for bad parenting or lazyness. For what it's worth I tend to agree and it's not the posters in this thread that are detracting or belittling those conditions but those people who use them as an excuse.
 
If your child has Special Educational Needs do they not get moved from mainstream education to a much smaller class size where the teacher can spend much more time on one to one teaching.

No wonder every parent wants their child to have Special Educational Needs
 
There is a hell of a lot of ignorance in this thread. Unless you have had to fight to get a child statemented and it is a fight (which is what you need for any special education or money, although it has to be pretty severe ADHD to get that) then you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
 
whiteflyer said:
If your child has Special Educational Needs do they not get moved from mainstream education to a much smaller class size where the teacher can spend much more time on one to one teaching.

No wonder every parent wants their child to have Special Educational Needs

My son is on the autistic spectrum. He is in mainstream school, has no additional help and no additional funding!!
 
If your child has Special Educational Needs do they not get moved from mainstream education to a much smaller class size where the teacher can spend much more time on one to one teaching.

No wonder every parent wants their child to have Special Educational Needs

No in most cases they dont, at best a few hrs 1 to 1 with a class room assistant, hardly the advantage to have your child labled as special needs for.
 
There is a hell of a lot of ignorance in this thread. Unless you have had to fight to get a child statemented and it is a fight (which is what you need for any special education or money, although it has to be pretty severe ADHD to get that) then you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

I agree with the above!

My son is 10. He has Aspergers Syndrome, ADHD, Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, and a fairly rare condition called Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome, for which he requires frequent hospital admission.
My son attends mainstream and although he has an IEP he gets very little extra help in class.
I watch him suffer at the hands of bullies because he doesn't understand social rules and is an 'easy' target, I watch him struggle with school work and I sit next to his hospital bed while he is hooked up to IV fluids and vomiting so bad he puts tears in his oesophagus.

Despite all this my son has been brought up with manners although he stuggles to cope with strangers talking to him and that may been seen as him being rude. He has sensory issues such as noises and lights which cause him to behave differently.
I would rather he didn't have all these issues but he has.
What I would like is not to be judged by people who have never walked in my shoes and just see what they think is a badly behaved boy, getting away with murder because his mother isn't controlling him!

Knowledge is power.
 
there was even a bbc documentary on it and child psychologists say that there is no real scientific backup to prove ADHD is an actual condition.

Actually it has been proven that ADHD is not a psychological issue but a chemical imbalance in the brain.
 
The OP certainly wasn't suggesting that, just that 'too many' seem to be using the condition(s) as an excuse for bad parenting or lazyness.

and how do you know the difference? Unles you have had to fight for everything that your child needs, and i mean fight, and had to endure the stares and accusing looks of people who think like this then really i don't think you have anything to say.

My child has cerebral palsy, a learning disability and epilepsy. He uses a wheelchair, does this mean that he is lazy and should walk? or that because i come from a large council estate that I am bad parent and should not encourage him to be lazy? Because that is what you are saying about the children who have ADHD and Autism, because you don't know if it is a correct diagnosis or not so why judge?
 
No, it's you who's judging yourself and you're deliberately misreading what I wrote. If your child has those conditions then you don't fall into the category that the OP complains of. I'd have thought you of all people would agree with him that people who make such claims falsely were the problem.
 
Please remember that if you have a child with a mental disability and have had to read a three page thread with people bashing children with a similar disability then is very hard to get the words out through the red fog of rage. Believe me I've torn people's heads off before on forums when they probably didn't deserve it because the general tone of a thread.

Our disabled children can't defend themselves and you damn right we are going to hit the roof when reading a thread we perceive as bashing them.
 
There is a hell of a lot of ignorance in this thread. Unless you have had to fight to get a child statemented and it is a fight (which is what you need for any special education or money, although it has to be pretty severe ADHD to get that) then you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Theres a hell of a lot of common sense, a lot of people on here may not have ever seen anyone with any genuine disability BUT in most cases its not difficult to see when it is just an excuse.

Dyslexia which I have quite badly was still a newish thing when I was in school, there was still research and so on but I worked around it, I attended after school time just to catch up! I developed ways of working around things that to me made things easier.
And god bless my parents for their patience!

And you know what? school help was a load of crap! how many times do you think writing the letter K over and over again is going to help me?

Also: back then like today it was an excuse for poorly behaved kids, I remember kids who sat drawing on the desk, attitude to teachers, skipping lessons then at parents evening when the kids were seriously under-performing the parents immediately tagged them Dyslexic,,, that's when some of them being told to behave didn't blurt it our as an excuse.
It really ****ed me off and still does.


I agree with the above!

My son is 10. He has Aspergers Syndrome, ADHD, Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, and a fairly rare condition called Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome, for which he requires frequent hospital admission.
My son attends mainstream and although he has an IEP he gets very little extra help in class.
I watch him suffer at the hands of bullies because he doesn't understand social rules and is an 'easy' target, I watch him struggle with school work and I sit next to his hospital bed while he is hooked up to IV fluids and vomiting so bad he puts tears in his oesophagus.

Despite all this my son has been brought up with manners although he stuggles to cope with strangers talking to him and that may been seen as him being rude. He has sensory issues such as noises and lights which cause him to behave differently.
I would rather he didn't have all these issues but he has.
What I would like is not to be judged by people who have never walked in my shoes and just see what they think is a badly behaved boy, getting away with murder because his mother isn't controlling him!

Knowledge is power.

And here is the example of a real kid with problems, I bet your son to walk past him in the street will look like a normal happy child though, because you are a good parent, you say knowledge is power and you are right.

You want whats best for your son and you went out, learnt what you needed to do and implemented it to give him a better life.
Though Bullys is always a tough one and no measure any school todays implements seems to be effective :(

Its the same with most people who have genuine cases working with what they have you would never know and they live a relatively normal life because of it.

But,, it really is all to easy to label.

Knowledge may be power, but in many cases ignorance is bliss :bang:
 
Back
Top