Just ordered Lencarta SmartFlash Twin Softbox Starter Kit
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leeboy22001
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Thanks, I could adjust modelling lamp on the Interfit one's so does feel like I've lost a useful feature with these :-(. The baby was on a raised floor using a foot cushion hence the discontintuity in background to floor, how would I blow that out too ?
gman
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My Genesis ones adjust but to be honest I only use the modelling lamp on the key light and for focusing.
Nice shots. The dof doesn't quite look right to me - looks almost like motion blur which is unlikely though. Have you tried using F11 or something instead of F5.6?
Garry Edwards
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The ElitePro heads have proportional modelling lamps, the SmartFlash ones don't, they have less features to keep costs down.
Whether that matters or not is a personal thing. Personally I only ever use the modelling lamp on the key light, and I only ever use it on full power because IMO it's pointless having it set to anything less than full power unless the room is in total darkness. In theory, the modelling lamp produces a WYSIWYG effect, but the presence of ambient light weakens that effect even at full power.
In a perfect world, all modelling lamps at maximum power would be proportionate to the output of the flash, but we don't live in a perfect world - for example, I have an Elinchrom Chic 2 that outputs 2400 Ws and an Elinchrom head that outputs 600 Ws. Both of them have 250w modelling lamps, so using them on proportional settings doesn't alter the fact that each 'pretends' to produce the same amount of light as the other at any given setting, even though one of them produces 4x as much...
HoppyUK
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It is maybe a personal thing, but I think the limited control of the modelling lights is the only real shortcoming of the Lencarta Smartflashes. The modelling lights on my entry-level Elinchrom D-Lites can be switched full on, to minimum, in proportion to the flash power, or off. I guess that's one of the reasons they cost a bit more.
It's more of an annoyance really, but having just full on or off is irritating. They are sometimes too bright to be left on all the time flat out in a darkened studio, plus they create quite a lot of heat, and if the flash is on low power, which I find it often is, then it can influence the image. So you have to keep switching the room lights on and off.
I don't want to overstate the effect that over-bright modelling lights can have on the exposure, but it can and does add a bit of warmth due to the difference in colour temperature. I notice that just after I last raised this issue, Lencarta reduced the brightness of the modelling lights in the Smartflashes from 250w to 150w, despite Garry arguing that it wasn't necessary
On the proportional modelling lights thing, I think that is a valuable feature when you're just starting out when you are able to get an estimate of what is going on when you move things around, fit different modifiers etc. It's just so much easier to get a rough visual check without having to test with a flash meter all the time. Most people use a set of identical lights, in which case there is no variation between models or brands.
As Garry has said before, the cost off adding a simple potentiometer to the modelling light circuit would be very small. Sure, it's an extra cost on an entry-level product, but it seems to be just about the only significant thing missing from the Smartflashes compared to rivals.
leeboy22001
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I used F5.6. Having looked at the photo's on my work display (laptop display needs calibrating properly) I can see the background hasn't correct been blown out everywhere, and I can see some remains of shadowing of the white background (wasn't quite flat), could use cloning tool to remove
.Thanks for your explanation Garry, having proportional control of modelling lamp was handy, but was annoying at the same time! when I wanted to use if for focusing and then adjusted the flash level the modelling light would adjust too! And you couldn't disable it either.
gman
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I know, what I mean is that with your focal length used at that aperture it seems the dof is quite shallow even on the subject. In the first photo the baby's left eye seems out of focus compared to the right eye. Using F11 or similar could sort this.
leeboy22001
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Sorry, I see what you mean now, local length was 62mm, I'll try reducing aperture size to F11 next time to ensure both eyes are in focus , background was only about 2ft away and wanted to ensure that was out of focus.
, background was only about 2ft away and wanted to ensure that was out of focus.
Garry Edwards
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Reality check...
The SmartFlash has exactly the same build quality as the ElitePro. With many manufacturers, the entry level lights are absolute crap, so they can include a lot of features because they've spent very little on the important componants. But the only way that Lencarta can save money is by reducing the features without sacrificing the quality.
I'm not sure that there was any need to reduce the power of the modelling lamp on the SmartFlash from 250 to 150W. That's why I argued that it wasn't necessary, although I can of course see that, in very limited lighting situations, some colour pollution could occur (minimum power, very close distance, unreasonably long shutter speed). The real reason for reducing the power of the modelling lamp was a marketing one, creating more clear blue water between the ElitePro and the SmartFlash specs. There's nothing to stop anyone from sticking a 250W lamp into the SmartFlash if they want to.
My reason for arguing that there was no actual need to reduce the power of the modelling lamp was based purely on experience. I am however perfectly happy to carry out objective tests, using a colour temperature meter, if anyone reading this thinks that I'm wrong.
leeboy22001
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I would imagine it depends how the model lamp is driven, if its directly from the mains power via the "model" switch then it could take a 250W bulb, if it was driven by a thyristor circuit in which I imagine is how the proportional model lamp are driven then you are limited to the power capabilities of that circuit.
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gman
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I was thinking along similar (less technical) lines myself in that perhaps it runs off a different circuit. Surely if you can then it must be otherwise you could buy a 200W light head and stick a 1000W flash bulb in it and save a fortune! lol
JonathanRyan
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You're not confusing watts with joules (watts per second) are you....? Although we often talk about a "200 watt" flash it's really 200 w/s. No relation to the wattage of the modelling lamp. Of course it's handy to match the power of the flash tube to the modelling lamp especially if it's proportional but there's no need to.
Personally I prefer proportional modelling lights. One of the ways I justify the extra 70 quid for an Elite Pro over a Smartflash. Plus the extra half stop of light and another stop of adjustment.
gman
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HoppyUK
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Garry, there's no need to trouble your colour temperature meter. If you simply take a picture with a Smartflash fitted with a 250w modelling bulb at minimum flash power (close distance has got nothing to do with it) then you will get some colour polution. It's not great, barely noticeable in fact with most subjects, but it's there and I'm glad that Lencarta have addressed this by fitting a lower wattage bulb, which is a better compromise given the lack of adjustment there.
You can also minimise the influence of polution substantially by using the highest x-sync speed possible, but you always recommend 1/125sec for some reason. If you can run at 1/200sec or 1/250sec, the influence of any ambient light is cut in half staight away.
However, what I'm really talking about here is the absense of a dimmable modelling light on the Smartflash. It is an ommission, everyone knows it is, and it's pointless to argue that it doesn't make any difference. One of the biggest advantages of studio flash over hot-shoe guns is the modelling light, so it would appear to make sense to optimise that advantage.
From what you are saying it seems to be deliberate downgrading and has more to do with enhancing the features of the more expensive models in the Lencarta range than it is to save significant cost on the Smartflash. I don't agree with that, but I don't have a problem with it either, it's common marketing practise, but sometimes I think that you'll argue that black is white if the Lencarta brand name is invloved.
leeboy22001
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I do feel rather deflated now, was really excited when I started playing with the kit, yes the results are good, and sure the quality of the kit can't be denied, but having paid £140 more than I did for the Interfit EX150 kit I kind of expected ALL the features that kit had, and I had pay'd more for the quality. Ok I do have two softboxes instead of one softbox with an umbrella, but it also come with 2 standard head reflectors, that the Lencarta softbox kit doesn't come with.
I did try shooting at max X-Sync speed, 1/250, but for some reason the bottom of the photo's exhibited a horizontal darkened area, as if the flash heads weren't actually sync'd up to the shutter curtains correctly? shooting at 1/125 fixed this ? One of the heads was connected to the Lencarta radio trigger, while the other head was IR slaved. Camera is also setup to fire flash on 2nd curtain, maybe if it were setup to 1st curtain this would be fixed? especially at x-sync speed!
I did try shooting at max X-Sync speed, 1/250, but for some reason the bottom of the photo's exhibited a horizontal darkened area, as if the flash heads weren't actually sync'd up to the shutter curtains correctly? shooting at 1/125 fixed this ? One of the heads was connected to the Lencarta radio trigger, while the other head was IR slaved. Camera is also setup to fire flash on 2nd curtain, maybe if it were setup to 1st curtain this would be fixed? especially at x-sync speed!
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Garry Edwards
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The fact that you got a horizontal darkened area at 1/250th is that that speed is the absolute maximum that your camera manufacturer recommends with their own hotshoe flashgun - whether it will work with any flash other than a dedicated hotshoe flashgun will depend on luck. That's why I recommend a synch speed of 1/125th second.
I'm sorry that you're diappointed that the SmartFlash doesn't have a proportional modelling lamp, but something does have to give on a budget kit. Unlike some makes, there has been no compromise on quality, just on features that I personally don't think are important. Everyone (and there are quite a few on TP) who has been to one of my Lencarta lighting workshops will tell you that I mix and max flash heads all the time. The SmartFlash heads get used a lot, and the absence of a modelling lamp has never caused any kind of a problem.
gman
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Is that the spill kills that attached on the end? The photos look like they come with them, maybe it was just missed?
Garry Edwards
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If people buy a kit that doesn't have a softbox then the kit comes with one or more standard reflectors. Some people do call them spillkills, but in fact a spillkill is a special reflector that looks like this
Standard reflectors aren't supplied with softboxes as the softbox fits in place of the reflector
Garry Edwards
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Richard,
I respect your knowledge in many areas of lighting but you are simply wrong on this one.
We could argue with each other until the cows come home and each of us would still think that the other is wrong, and people reading the arguments wouldn't know who to believe.
So, to put this to bed I'm relying on objective measurements rather than opinion, so I've tested my assertions against yours, using a Minolta 3F Color Temperature Meter.
And here are the test conditions:
SmartFlash 200 fitted with a standard reflector, distance from flash head 60cm, power set to minimum, shutter speed 1/250th second, 250W modelling lamp.
And the reading? 5420K
With the modelling lamp changed from 250W to 150W, still 5420K
With the shutter speed changed from 1/250th to 1/125th, still 5420K, with either modelling lamp
With the modelling lamp switched off, still 5420
I don't think that's true and it definately isn't fair. I like to think that I give honest information and I back my statements with actual, tested facts, as in this case.
And here is another fact: AFAIK Lencarta is the only manufacturer to actually test their statements about colour temperature, and to actually publish their findings.
Edit: And I stand by my testing 100%. There's a Lencarta studio lighting workshop at my studio on Sunday and some of the people attending are TP members. If anyone wants me to I'll be happy to repeat my test in front of them
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Garry Edwards
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Sorry, this is the correct link for the spillkill
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gman
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Ahh, I see now. Cheers.
HoppyUK
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I don't think that you should be deflated, certainly not becuase of the kit you have. Get to know it better and learn a bit more about lighting, and you'll be pretty thrilled I'm sure. It's extremely capable. Garry and I might argue about technical details, but the modelling lights thing is very much a detail - and something that most folks will probably never notice, and not bother about even if they do. I'm only picking up on it because I've noticed it and tested it, and when Garry then says it doesn't exist but three days later Lencarta change the Smartflash modelling light wattage, I just want to set the record straight.
Maybe what you are finding is that studio photography is just a bit more difficult. Unlike regular picture taking in daylight where basically everything is set up for you and you just record it with the camera, with studio work you start with literally a blank canvas and you have to build and create the whole image - subject, lighting, the lot. Stick with it, it's really rewarding for all the same reasons. Plenty of help on hand here
Shutter speed is important. The max x-sync speed for your camera is 1/200sec and you cannot exceed that or you will get the banding you have experienced. You can certainly shoot at 1/200sec with an IR trigger or hard wired sync cord, but if you have a radio trigger these often introduce a fractional delay. It should be clear by 1/160sec, or 1/125sec to be absolutely safe. The only consideration there is that if the ambient light is high and the flash is at low power, the ambient can affect the image - the usual culprit is sun coming through the window! Using the highest x-sync speed you can will minimise any contamination from that.
Don't use 2nd curtain sync. It's a technique for mixing flash and ambient light with a moving subject. It controls the direction of the ambient blur relative to the subject and is not a consideration for what you're trying to do.
Garry, with respect to your colour temp meter, that's not what matters.
I don't want to make any more fuss about this but I have seen colour contamination from a Smartflash with a 250w modelling lamp, when used at low power. I have noted it, and repeated it at home just to make sure what was going on as I have never noticed it before.
Shoot a subject where it's easy to see the exact colour - a white shirt is good. There will be a (very) slight difference. There must be something, it's impossible for there not to be - the question is only whether it's signifciant or not.
leeboy22001
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I don't think that you should be deflated, certainly not becuase of the kit you have. Get to know it better and learn a bit more about lighting, and you'll be pretty thrilled I'm sure. It's extremely capable. Garry and I might argue about technical details, but the modelling lights thing is very much a detail - and something that most folks will probably never notice, and not bother about even if they do. I'm only picking up on it because I've noticed it and tested it, and when Garry then says it doesn't exist but three days later Lencarta change the Smartflash modelling light wattage, I just want to set the record straight.
Maybe what you are finding is that studio photography is just a bit more difficult. Unlike regular picture taking in daylight where basically everything is set up for you and you just record it with the camera, with studio work you start with literally a blank canvas and you have to build and create the whole image - subject, lighting, the lot. Stick with it, it's really rewarding for all the same reasons. Plenty of help on hand here
I'm feeling better about it now, If I hadn't had the feature on other flash heads I wouldn't have got so upset. To a degree it is my fault as I should have read the spec. to see what they where capable off, I just "assumed" they'd have the feature having paid more for them.
Garry, I did kind of expect the standard reflectors to be included with the flash heads, there's no reason why I might use a flash head without a softbox, and the picture on the page advertising the twin smartbox kit show's the flash heads with them on, so I can only assume they come with the kit. It wasn't until I read the spec. of the other kits, comparing them (because I wondered why the reflectors were missing) did I realise they were added as an extra to the Umbrella kits as "Reflector MOD021" ! a wee bit of miss-selling there :shake: especially when you spec the FLA010 as part of the kit, you goto the FLA010 flash head page and your informed that "*This is supplied with a free standard reflector, which is used whenever soft lighting is not required. Honeycombs and umbrellas can both be used with the standard reflector"
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Garry Edwards
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Lee,
I'm sorry if you feel that there was "a wee bit of miss-selling there". That wasn't the intention and it does clearly state on the page you bought it from that
Simple fact - the standard reflectors cost £19.95 each, and most of the people who buy kits with 2 softboxes only use them with those softboxes. They don't need reflectors with softboxes and that's why they aren't included whenever a softbox is supplied in a kit - not including them saves you £39.90. As delivery within the UK is free you can order them separately, if and when you want them. This is an attempt to keep the price down, not to deceive people
I have to admit though that it's fairly easy to miss this kind of info, simply because there's so much info on the page. Whenever I buy something online I want to know everything about it, I assume that other people want this info too so you can blame me for putting so much technical info on the page.
Lencarta's website developer is working on a complete re-vamp of the site, which will be finished very soon now. Once the job's done all of the info will still be there but it will be filed away neatly, and hopefully this will make it more difficult for people to miss important info.
I'm sorry if you feel that there was "a wee bit of miss-selling there". That wasn't the intention and it does clearly state on the page you bought it from that
and then it goes on to list the items that are included
Simple fact - the standard reflectors cost £19.95 each, and most of the people who buy kits with 2 softboxes only use them with those softboxes. They don't need reflectors with softboxes and that's why they aren't included whenever a softbox is supplied in a kit - not including them saves you £39.90. As delivery within the UK is free you can order them separately, if and when you want them. This is an attempt to keep the price down, not to deceive people
I have to admit though that it's fairly easy to miss this kind of info, simply because there's so much info on the page. Whenever I buy something online I want to know everything about it, I assume that other people want this info too so you can blame me for putting so much technical info on the page.
Lencarta's website developer is working on a complete re-vamp of the site, which will be finished very soon now. Once the job's done all of the info will still be there but it will be filed away neatly, and hopefully this will make it more difficult for people to miss important info.
leeboy22001
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Hi Garry,
Yeh the bit on the web page quoting
"The reflector shown in some photos is NOT included as it is not needed when used with the softboxes supplied. Our standard reflector is however very useful when soft lighting is not required, and can be used with honeycombs and umbrellas. Please click here for details and to add it to your order."
for some reason I had read that as to be the 5 in 1 reflector! I did wonder at the time why it was mentioned when the 5 in 1 reflector was in the kit list! ?? my mistake, doh, if I had clicked on the link saying "please click here" it would have taken me to the standard reflector, and all would have been clear, so please accept my apologies.
I do understand the reason for not including it, to keep cost down as you said, but just wondered why it was free when bought with the flash head on it own?
Having as much info on a web page about a product you want to buy is good and informative, but I guess too much can lead to information overload! lol
I did appreciate the free delivery as its a very BIG and HEAVY box so can't be cheap to deliver!
Shall look forward to seeing the new web site
Yeh the bit on the web page quoting
"The reflector shown in some photos is NOT included as it is not needed when used with the softboxes supplied. Our standard reflector is however very useful when soft lighting is not required, and can be used with honeycombs and umbrellas. Please click here for details and to add it to your order."
for some reason I had read that as to be the 5 in 1 reflector! I did wonder at the time why it was mentioned when the 5 in 1 reflector was in the kit list! ?? my mistake, doh, if I had clicked on the link saying "please click here" it would have taken me to the standard reflector, and all would have been clear, so please accept my apologies.
I do understand the reason for not including it, to keep cost down as you said, but just wondered why it was free when bought with the flash head on it own?
Having as much info on a web page about a product you want to buy is good and informative, but I guess too much can lead to information overload! lol
I did appreciate the free delivery
as its a very BIG and HEAVY box so can't be cheap to deliver!Shall look forward to seeing the new web site
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