Jobs

Really glad it all went well for you. :)
 
Now just got to load them all into the computer, and do something with them, see if I actually got any good ones :)
 
Minolta film body? Must be a god-like genious:thumbs:

Glad you had a good day overall. If I've learnt anything about photography over the last six months it's that trying anything new for the first time it never goes as well as you'd hoped. That's what the 2nd time is for.;)
 
Congratulations both of you :thumbs: TFS the story of how the day went. Will you be posting some of the pics from the day so we can see how you got on?
 
We've got over 100 shots we're happy with (given 5 stars in LR). I deleted about 137 shots, still have ovee 350, sue still has over 450 shots.

I screwed up lots of my shots with the spot metering - I thought I was metering from the face but it looks like a few of them I messed up (a lot were grab shots so I didn't spend as long setting up, testing and retaking as I would have liked to). Can bring quite a few of them back in LR though (thats what RAW is for eh).

What I'll do is once we've gotten together the ones we want to use and have PPed them I'll put the slideshow exe in a zip and then host it on my website - then you can download it and look at how we did :)

Not got many of the structured shots, as I say the official tog did a good job of not letting anyone "copy their shots". The bride wanted more candid and relaxed stuff and by being there from before we got underway until about 9pm gave us a chance to capture emotions from all over the day.

I think if we did get into it properly I'd offer that as a service - if they fed and watered us we'd stay all day, gives more to pick from that way, doesn't it?
 
It's certainly an idea Matt but if you were looking to do this in any sort of professional way you would also need to factor in the cost of your time - it sounds like a good idea in principle but the more shots you take then the more time you also take doing the PP afterwards....I know that you may say that it also increases the number of shots you might sell but in honesty most couples will have a budget that they can afford to spend on additional shots and while they will exceed it by some, it won't be by a huge amount. Again, friends and family will buy some but whether it would be enough to make it worth two of you with all the attendant work for, in effect, several days, only you can decide.
 
I don't know, I think it helped us to get into the spirit of the day too, gave us a chance to chat to the guests and find out what they were wanting and things like that - it just made it more personal.

I see what you're saying about time and budgetary constraints though.

I knew I was having a bad shoot yesterday - I could tell from the LCDs that Sue was getting shots that were way better than mine, just couldn't get myself into that zone. I guess its why I felt a bit more relaxed - I knew with two of us taking photos we'd come away with similar shots half of the time but that we'd come away with usuable shots if one of us cocked up with it.

If we were to go semi pro, and keep on the jobs we currently have, we could afford to do the whole day thing at not a lot of cost, it didn't feel like we were working, it felt like we were at a wedding taking photos.
 
There is also an unspoken truth about perceived value. As some of you may be aware, I run a very well known website. I lowered my fees to £10 and sales decreased. Increased to a minimum of £19 through to £49 and sales increased. A marketing friend told me that people have a perceived value...."oh, it's cheap so it's not very good.".

I think you have to strike a balance though. I am sure that the quality of any shots will win you repeat business. But as Robyn (Witch) says you need to value your time as well, especially after what you were talking about in a previous post (career etc).
 
I'm glad you've enjoyed yourselves. Most weddings are a joy to photograph, you get the occassional odd-ball that isn't - but that's life! Very different when it's the other way round.... I don't mind people attempting to copy our shots, we're just confident that they won't get the same results. Eyes in the wrong direction, not looking at the guys in charge. Each to their own.

I wouldn't put down a guy using film. A number of Pro togs are returning to film. Hugely better dynamic range over digital and the definition is phenomenal when using medium format (ask hoodi!). And if a photographer knows his craft then he doesn't need to take so many shots :shrug:

It's a case of confidence.... I've shot loads of weddings using film and the only time I got worried was when I sent them away for processing. Tamed a local photofinisher and things were a lot calmer. Always used to split the processing between two processing houses as well. Why don't I still use film? So inconvenient and I can "get away" with using digital.

Still, I don't intend to put a damper on your efforts, I applaud them. It does take courage and good on you two for giving it a bash! :clap:
 
I only ever did weddings with film. :shrug:

Perhaps you should judge this guy's abilities when you can do what he did - shoot 36 exposures and be confident you've got a result. I bet he wasn't posting on an internet forum the night before asking how to use his flashgun either. ;)

I never minded people crowding around me when I set up shots as long as they didn't get in my way. Given the equipment I was using and the pro lab I sent the film to, the other pics were unlikely to be any threat anyway. Colab actually print a code number on the back of each print so you can
ascertain how close you've got to the perfect exposure. Despite all that it was always a huge relief to get your prints back and find you hadn't cocked up anywhere, no matter how many times you did it.

Digital photography is a wonderful thing - I'm a total convert since the early days when it didn't really hack it, but the inverted snobbery often levelled at film these days is laughable.

Sorry Matt I think you need to read this whole thread through.. your approach to the job, your attitude to the main tog before you'd even met him and have a good think about whether you think it's a good attitude with which to be approaching your first wedding?
 
I didn't know what kind of camera he was using or whether it was film or digital until they'd finished shooting their shots and his camera wound itself up.

I don't have anything against film, I just wouldn't have wanted to shoot in the light he was shooting in and at the angles.

And if he was that good, he'd provide invoices, not insist on cash only payments and not have the subjects staring into the sun squinting.

We've got lots to do to get these pictures ready for Tuesday so I'm not going to bother getting into a debate about my attitude, my snobbishness towards film or other photographers. You weren't there cedric, what I type in a thread is the only indication as to what happened, my attitude was spot on, I just needed to vent about the tog's wife - as I said, he was fine. I stayed out of their way, putting up with filthy looks from her and then decided to take a couple of shots to note the poses and things and how they used the cars. Then she told me to stay away, after I made it clear I would then she was nice as pie.

And I hope from the bottom of my heart that he is a genius and he does get decent prints - because of some of the poses and people, thats all the couple will have.
 
I posted for advice, to give the couple the best I could possibly do, is that not what I should be doing they were aware it was our first wedding and happy with that. I hope that everything turned out right for them including photos taken by the prof tog, it is one day and should be remembered that way by them, we were asked to be there to help them to be able to do this, she was happy for us to be there and wanted us to be taking the same shots as him and more, he himself was fine about it (most of the time) and we both tried to keep out of his way, however I have to agree with matt that his wife would deliberately try to stand in anyones why (not just ours) who was trying to take shots at the same time everyone noticed it, other guests came up to me later in the day to say what she was doing was wrong. I have managed to get some similar shots, but tried to lower my camera before he took his shot so people would look at him and also zoom in on various people in the groups to give different shots. At times the Bride was telling people to look at me, so thats not my fault. I would not have the confidence to take film shots while there, and in todays age of digital even with lots more experience I dont think I ever would, my feeling is too much of a risk, I am not against film cameras and anyone who uses them.
 
Well I sincerely hope that both his shots and yours are excellent! :thumbs:

Not sure what invoices have to do with his abilities mind you. :D

Peace mate, but this is a photographic board and the casual visitor could get the wrong impression of what we're about altogether from your thread. Professionalism is a grossly devalued word these days anyway, but before you even consider turning pro you should be able to answer flash questions rather than be asking them. Everyone has to start somewhere of course but they'd be well advised to do so with a sound grasp of the basic techniques.
 
my wedding day was a scorching hot day and the tog used film, his shots were great apart from having me in them, so my hat goes off to people who can get the most out of the format. Like you Sue, I could never go back to film and be comfortable with what I was doing.

Our tog was a real git tbh, he even told a close friend off for taking shots of the formals, I was happy about that in some respect as I'd paid the tog to do a job :D

good luck with the images, everyones got to start somewhere.

are you planning to post any?
 
We are planning to, as matt posted earlier I think, once we have got them processed we are putting a link up to website for people to look at them :)
 
If I was a paid phot on a wedding and some guest tried to poach my set-ups, I'd put his head down a toilet. No S***.
If he/they/you wanted to re-create the set-ups after I'd finished, fine, but shooting over my shoulder, or asking the guests to 'just look this way while I...' before I did the next set-up? No way.
You'd get a thud in the cobblers, mate. I'd also have a word with the Clients about it.

I'm adding to this as it sounded a bit harsh when I re-read it.
I think the phot's wife was doing what she considered right to protect their business interests - it doesn't matter that the Bride had asked you to take extra photos - to me and any other Professional photographer this is just a cheap way of getting extra images of the wedding. They were only paying £450 for the photographer, which isn't a lot these days - my rates for weddings used to start at £750 - ten years ago.

I know we'd all like to side with our fellow forum readers, but I really think you have no right to complain about any treatment you recieved on the day. If I'd been the official photographer and I'd found another paid photographer stealing my set-ups, I'd have been bloody furious.
 
Arkady said:
If I was a paid phot on a wedding and some guest tried to poach my set-ups, I'd put his head down a toilet. No S***.
If he/they/you wanted to re-create the set-ups after I'd finished, fine, but shooting over my shoulder, or asking the guests to 'just look this way while I...' before I did the next set-up? No way.......snip......I know we'd all like to side with our fellow forum readers, but I really think you have no right to complain about any treatment you recieved on the day. If I'd been the official photographer and I'd found another paid photographer stealing my set-ups, I'd have been bloody furious.
Click to expand...

I've been keeping my eye on this thread and I have to say there has been some reluctance on my part to post what might appear to be an unpopular view here especially as I'm a little new and people DO like to support their forum buddies... Which is okay as far as it goes.

So it pleases me immensely that Arkady has posted his reply which echoes some of my feelings about the whole venture and saves me much typing.

So here's an :agree: emoticon.
 
I'm the resident Gene Hunt...

Rhyming Slang, perhaps?
 
Arkady said:
I'm the resident Gene Hunt...

Rhyming Slang, perhaps?
Click to expand...

:lol:

Well I like the style. Somebody has to say it like it is.

I'm hoping to develop a similar style that allows me to post the following one day.

"Your picture is cr@p. There's no hope. Sell your gear and give up. I'd take up knitting if were you". :D
 
Irritable_Rabbit said:
:lol:

Well I like the style. Somebody has to say it like it is.

I'm hoping to develop a similar style that allows me to post the following one day.

"Your picture is cr@p. There's no hope. Sell your gear and give up. I'd take up knitting if were you". :D
Click to expand...

I did that. People left. Crying. And took up knitting. My favourite is rubbish photos of rubbish birds in rubbishy gardens. Or dogs/cats/babies...


Back on topic. Don't undercut Pros. It's their Living.
 
Arkady said:
I did that. People left. Crying. And took up knitting. My favourite is rubbish photos of rubbish birds in rubbishy gardens. Or dogs/cats/babies...


Back on topic. Don't undercut Pros. It's their Living.
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll develop a thick skin when I post rubbish photos of rubbish birds in Africa then. Which is only SLIGHTLY better.

And on topic also.
If you do get paid and manage to survive the wrath of the real pro tog, then declare your earnings! The tax office gets around to most people eventually.
 
I'm not sure if anyones mentioned it, but theres a good reason why it can be bad having another guy hovering taking photos while one guy is working. Eye contact. Two cameras means the people look at both so they're eye contact is all over the shop on one image. I can fully appreciate that the guy's wife was telling you to back off.

Also after you having a go at me on IRC about what I said, which I admit was wrong of me, its a little unprofessional to be doing it yourself. I love film but I know I'm really not good enough to use it professionally. I tried at a gig and the lab said the 2 rolls I shot were too under-exposed to tell where one shot started and the other finished. If I saw a film user at a wedding I'd be quite interested in their set up more than anything. Photography is light, not kit.

I do hope you've got some nice images and that its been a good experience for you both.
 
It's perhaps also worth pointing out that from the pro's point of view every shot you duplicate means another lost print sale so it's probably not surprising that they'll be a little upset about it.
 
I love knitting.....and photography....and Arky! :naughty: you didn't mean me did you?
 
petemc said:
I'm not sure if anyones mentioned it, but theres a good reason why it can be bad having another guy hovering taking photos while one guy is working. Eye contact. Two cameras means the people look at both so they're eye contact is all over the shop on one image.
Click to expand...

This can be a nightmare scenario. Some of the stuff I do means that not only do I have a lot of noise and a very tight timescale to contend with, but also loving mummies and daddies who want to make sure they get a lovely shot of their little treasure with their favourite rider. All well and good but their camera phone is unlikely to come up with a result quite as good as my SLR, not least when the riders are well versed in keeping their eyes fixed on me and ignoring distractions. On one occasion I actually had to borrow a set of eyes from a previous team mascot to paste into a shot! (And the parents presumably never noticed this - classic!) The kids get given a set of shots from the night so there's not really even any need for the parents to have cameras out.
 
Well I've just seen the shots that the "pro" has given to the lady whose wedding we shot.

I have to say that I'm rather pleased at the results we managed to put together for our first attempt. Firstly, his photos are printed at 8x6 and are all bent - that is they are arced so that they dont sit flat. I could never hand over anything that was in that condition - if it happened at the lab, you send them back to the lab and have them reprint and package them properly.

Half of the photos have people with eyes shut, many of the outdoor photos have blown highlights, two of the most important shots - the one of the two rings on fingers with the bouquet and the only shot (that they got) of the bride and groom walking down the aisle are completely out of focus.

The shot with all of the blokes on it has a giant lens flare in the top middle of the picture. She is going to ask him to sort that out for her, I told her it would have to be removed digitally using the computer so he'd have to scan it in and change it from there.

Many photos also have very dark shadows on faces - I presume this would have been sorted with fill flash like we were using?

I didn't say anything about the flaws to her other than let her point out to me and I agreed with her when she said this one there are eyes closed, that one is out of focus, etc.

The photos also have a matt finish, she was expecting gloss (or she hadn't specified either way), I know that ours were a matt finish in our album though so this might be the standard that people print to - I printed ours with a gloss finish.

So she's £500 down, without an album (that was his excuse for them being bent - they don't usually do them without an album, the cheapest he could do a spicer hallfield album for without putting any money on it was £150, I know for a fact I could remake our own wedding album and do it for about £97 including the actual prints - I didn't tell her this though) and a mediocre set of prints, the bloke really should stick to his day job, or at least embrace digital so that he can check for eyes being shut.

Now I take on board the points raised about the problems I might have caused with eye contact but Sue and I were the only ones there from the forum that day, and from seeing the results that were gained from the guy I know that my observations and concerns were rightly placed. There were only two possible shots where I might have caused problems with eye contact and they were fine (apart from lighting).

Perhaps my attitude wasn't the most professional, I was just rather annoyed that someone had paid a lot of money (compared to what we paid last year) and had put one of the most important days of their lives into the hands of someone who didn't (in my opinion) do them justice.

It does make me smile when I remember what his wife said to me on the day after she asked me to stop copying their shots, "they're paying for the poses, because as you know anyone can take a photo".

Yes, anyone can take a photo, but not everyone can take a good photo....
 
I'll sort some 800px wide photos out later for you Glo ;)

Sorry didn't realise you were on dialup :(
 
Thanks Matt! :thumbs:
6 months on and SKY still have the tag on my line. No help from BT Wholesale or OFFCOM.
My begging letters & phonecalls to SKY have long since turned to phone-rage!
Alas... Im still on the dreaded dial-up :bang:

Look forward to the pics!
 
Congrats, there's a lot of great candid moments in there. The only thing that really stood out as a problem is that a lot of the shots had the persons head centre frame which left nearly half the frame empty :(
 
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