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sue

sue

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Well matt has lined up for us to photograph someones wedding a week on saturday, I personally am a bit nervous about it, dont want to make a mess of it, there is another photographer they have booked who is taking 35 shots (so they have told matt) we are going to take some extra, matt says he is going to take similar shots to the other photographer and suggested I tried some more candid, natural shots. I arent sure what sort of thing this includes, anyone got some they can show/share withme. Also all advice very welcome, as I am getting worried and it is over a week away.

He has also arrange to do a wedding next August which sounds like it is going to be set up very similar to our wedding getting married in the same place as us and then photos in the park follow the ceremony which is the same place as ours were taken so know the area and what the shots will look like.
 
Take every single bit of kit you own, just incase. If need be, leave the spares in the car, fully charged, but to hand ;)
 
Do we need the 100-400 ???? They could stay in the car I guess. Got a new card so should have plenty of memory.
 
sue said:
...there is another photographer they have booked who is taking 35 shots (so they have told matt) we are going to take some extra, matt says he is going to take similar shots to the other photographer and suggested I tried some more candid, natural shots.
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35 shots? Interesting concept, I'm sure it will catch on....

Make sure all your batteries are charged (including spares), memory cards are formatted and ready to go, shoot in RAW as it will give you more flexibility when it comes to PP. If you have to change your ISO for shooting indoors remember to switch it back when you go outside, this I learnt from bitter experience at my first wedding. ;)

As to candid shots, try and stick on something like a 70-200mm and watch from the periphery, you will be able to get some great ones without the subjects knowing. Before the ceremony try and concentrate on the groom, best man immediate family and any obvious 'characters'.

I've tended to concentrate on the candid shots on weddings I've done and you will be able to do the same as there is no pressure, they have an official photographer so anything on top is a bonus. Above all try and relax and enjoy the day, it is exhausting yet exhilarating at the same time.

Here are a few examples:

Wedding #1

Wedding #2

Wedding #3
 
Thanks for the tips guys, we're going to need to pick up as many tips and practise our backsides off before the day.

Basically the other tog is going to be there for two hours and will take 36 shots - they have had to pick the 36 shots that they would like and have therefore had to sacrifice many shots that they wanted.

Shes already paid out about £450 for him and I know how I felt after I found out about costs and things after our wedding last year.

Basically the deal is this....We'll go for the wedding, the whole thing, the day, the meal, the reception, the night do and we'll take photos - Sue can maybe concentrate on candids whilst I do the structured stuff if she'd prefer that. I'll mirror some of the shots from the official tog and will do whatever she wants me to get as well - I've given her the list that Tom put up in another thread, he only has his mum and she has mum, dad and stepdad so there are going to be photos they don't want because some of the family relationships aren't that great.

I'm going to bring in the DVD on monday that we got given with all of our shots on it, as well as our wedding album so that she can see what we were given and what we chose as a result.

Because she's already laid out for a photographer what I've said is probably £50 for the day for the actual being there (more than fine for me at this stage - its the first attempt and its not fair for her to fork out for two photographers). I'm going to give her the prints at pretty much cost price and do some photobooks too probably for relatives - I might add a couple of quid on here and there, I've also said that I will give her a CD with high quality JPGs once the initial print is done which gives her the ability to get her own reprints done. I will retain copyright and the pictures will go into our portfolio but as far as return business goes, I don't care - she'll only scan the photos in and do it that way anyway (we didn't do that honest).

As a result, shes said that she would like it if we would put business cards out on the table, she isn't allowing the other tog to do this.

I know its not standard practice to give away the photos, its not the way its always going to be. As far as I'm concerned, its free experience for me and Sue in a low pressure environment, they have a photographer and have paid a fair whack for him to do a job. If we manage to get 30 or so shots from the day that are good shots I'll be happy with that (we'll take plenty more I would wager). By charging a low fee (£50 + free meals), the expectations will be low which means we can sort of underpromise and overdeliver (something I love doing).

That was from the 1st training session I delivered, came about as I was talking about photography and she said it was a shame she didn't know sooner and was already upset about the lack of photos being taken - thats a very bad way to do business, theres no way someone should be regretting it before the event (or after for that matter).

In the 2nd training session I picked up a PC repair job, PC riddled with spyware, getting that sorted next week and get my tea made for me (told her £10 per hour, £20 minimum charge, which is my standard for home visits - I'm cheap).

In the 3rd Training session, I think I might have picked up a wedding for August 08 - the mother of a girl who is getting married in a similar setup to us - same registry office, wanting to go to the park we had our photos done in and even using the same car company so it'll be the same wedding cars.

Now this one will be a different boat, we'll have more experience by then and I've told her that I will charge her a fair price and have also mentioned the cd with high quality pics on - I'd like that to be our trademark. The biggest gripe I have is that someone else owns our wedding photos and I have to pay over and above what I should for reprints (okay you could call it payback for processing done with the initial lot - that should be budgeted for there and then). I wanted a tog who would sell me the copyright, they wanted to charge a hell of a lot more for it, the photos will be in the portfolio obviously, but I have no need to keep ownership of them entirely and giving free high quality jps might seem like commercial suicide - I'd rather keep this job on in IT, do weddings at the weekend and be reccommended by people and have a great reputation. I know some might not agree with the plan but I'm going to see how it goes first :)

Thats a long post :o
 
I was going to say also - I'll be treating next week as a huge oppertunity to get experience without the pressure, It's a 12 hour day (if we stay till the end) and all the photo processing for £50, but if we do a good job, it should open some doors.

I'm really buzzing at the moment :)
 
Ok easy for matt, he can wear the suit he got married in all been well ;) but what should I wear??
 
Hmmmmm maybe an excuse to go shopping :) no I am sure I must have something.
 
sue said:
Ok easy for matt, he can wear the suit he got married in all been well ;) but what should I wear??
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Without the trainers, IIRC :D
 
I managed to wear my wedding shoes for most of the day, but wore some flat ones for the evening, I wear my work shoes for over 12 hours a day, so I should be ok. Dont know if matt will cope with his shoes for over 12 hours.
 
I might be doing another wedding in 4 weeks, a muslim 2-day event, which could be extremely interesting.

Wow its been a funny old day
 
Matt .... Is the other photographer aware that you will also be there next week doing your Gary Fong bit.

Some don't like other togs there ..... You need to check! (Before the day)

He may lose out on repeat sales etc if your shots are good or better than his.



:canon:
 
Just noticed you said they've prepicked 36 shots. I bet he takes many many more than that.

Its just that he'll be working to a set plan, and he has 36 types of shots to present the couple with afterwards, which is actually about right (I think)
 
hypnotic said:
Matt .... Is the other photographer aware that you will also be there next week doing your Gary Fong bit.

Some don't like other togs there ..... You need to check! (Before the day)

He may lose out on repeat sales etc if your shots are good or better than his.



:canon:
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As far as I'm aware there isn't a contract that says he has exclusivity - thats for him to deal with. I'm acting on request of the Bride who has booked him also, my dad was standing next to our tog at our wedding taking similar shots, he didn't say anything.

Thats not too harsh is it?

I dunno, I don't want to step on his toes, but at the same time I'm concerned that the Bride is regretting the photographer before a single shot has been taken.

Hmmmm :/
 
Marcel said:
Just noticed you said they've prepicked 36 shots. I bet he takes many many more than that.

Its just that he'll be working to a set plan, and he has 36 types of shots to present the couple with afterwards, which is actually about right (I think)
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He has 10 signature shots, the other 26 are ones they had to pick, they've had to decide which they do and don't want.

The tog is only there for 2 hours, Sue and I will be there all day.
 
Matt .... This is not something you can take a chance on the day and hope it is alright.

If you are taking the same sort of posed shots that he is ... He may well object ..... I would!

Find out who he is and ask him directly.
 
Well done on getting the jobs Matt - sounds like you're putting some work into this!

As far as the "mirror" shots from those that the other 'tog is taking, remember that you won't be able to get much if any eye contact in the ones you take - the other chap almost certainly will object if he has problems getting his shots because the guests and wedding party are being distracted by you - even if not deliberately. I've done one of these before although as a freebie for a friend - I was with her right from getting ready at the start of the day - (now THAT is something for Sue maybe if the bride agrees? Lovely chance to get some of the classic "Bride" shots and she'd probably feel relaxed with a woman more than a man too as she's getting herself ready...) and as a result I got a good few shots for them which were different to the normal formal stuff. I'm doing the same thing again at my cousin's wedding in July too which should be good fun. :)

*edit*

Just looking through my photo album I've just remembered that I have also done one following the groom through the day which was a bit different - this was my other half's best friend and was a terrifically formal wedding but some of the candid shots I came out with were rather nice and the couple loved them because they were a totally different view of the day. Sometimes a slightly offbeat view of things can provide good results.
 
Make sure you don't injure any of the guests / public with any of your kit etc, else you could be having an expensive day out.

Mate of mine did a wedding (thats his profession) and a guest "fell" over his foot in the church, it resulted in his insurance company paying out £10K to settle out of court.
 
mho01 said:
Make sure you don't injure any of the guests / public with any of your kit etc, else you could be having an expensive day out.

Mate of mine did a wedding (thats his profession) and a guest "fell" over his foot in the church, it resulted in his insurance company paying out £10K to settle out of court.
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Is there a quick way of getting this sort of insurance - as a just in case?

Matt & Sue - when it comes to cropping at the post processing - remember to crop to 3:2 - see my other thread - otherwise you end up with loads of questions about white borders.
 
Matt, you really need to check the other tog out and the probs with exclusivity etc - you don't want a bad rep before you start.

Sounds like you are really looking forward to this. Hope everything goes really well for you.

In terms of insurance - this is not expensive. Approx £70 for third party cover for the year. We live in a litigious society and you can never be too careful.
 
The other tog is, as I understand it in the same boat as me - he does wedding photography on the side (well, not quite the same boat as me then).

I've been invited to the wedding by the bride, we're guests and we have DSLRs, thats all the other guy needs to know. He's there to do a job and we're there to do the rest.

I'll probably look into insurance today at some point.
 
Hi Matt & Sue

Last July I attended my Sister-in-Law's wedding as a guest - very similar conversation we had to that you mentioned above. The location was Hexham racecourse in Northumberland.

The official photographer had an assistant that p********d not only me off, but other guests trying to get any shot as they must have rehearsed where the assistant should stand to block anyone else's view. It appeared towards the end of the evening, non of the guests got decent photos. He was rather arrogant and the photographs he took (all film) were not that brilliant. Unfortunately, the compositions on mine were awful. I did manage some good candid ones when he was busy fussing over another group shot.
 
Hi Gilly, thanks for letting us know we're not the only ones who have similar predicaments.

I've had a chat with the bride today and told her that I might stay out of the official guys way. Apparently its him and his wife - I think his wife does the organisation of people. It depends on the guy and his wife on the day and how the atmosphere is, if he starts getting funny then I'll back off and just start doing my own thing, I'll just walk back a bit and mount the 100-400 and shoot over his shoulder from 20ft back ;)

I also have the list of the 36 shots that he is taking. They were told 36 shots, so they wrote down and agreed on 36 must have shots. I gave her the list that JL put up the other week and she's ticked a couple of those that she'd like too.

She said that everyone else will have a camera and will be taking pictures - we are no different and can take pictures of what we want and who we want. They paid £500 for the tog and are only getting prints - no album. She thought that was cheap.

For £500 we got 45 prints in a beautiful hand bound album from 103 available shots, with special pictures from the hotel where sue was getting ready with bridesmaids and her mum and dad. Now that really was extremely cheap when I put it into perpective.

I've found someone else's wedding site where he sells a CD with the prints on with a personal reprint license for £125 which I think is more than reasonable. Thats probably something I'll work into my packages once we're off the ground (if we do get off the ground).

I'm going to buy Rona Cox's start up photography course to cover the business side of things and I've sorted out an account with an album company/sorting out one with colab.

I've also now got the Public Liability Insurance.

We'll see how it plays out :)
 
The guy who did our photos has just gotten back to me with the name of the software he used to create our proof-cd slide shows, Pictures to EXE, only $30 for a business license too.
 
Now all I need to know is the place we are going and maybe plan a visit before hand to see what it is like. Any more tips and ideas would be great. Especially as I have never used a flash on my camera and dont want to look like a complete idiot on the day.
 
Matt, Sue, I would recommend approaching the tog before anything happens and telling him of your intentions. Be courteous and polite and let him know that you would be grateful if you could learn from him. This may massage his ego enough to 'work with you'.

In between his shots you guys are going to need the party looking at you. Whilst you don't want to ruin his shots (by taking the pictures at the same time and people looking in different directions), he may get a tad upset that you are prolonging his time - after all, he may indeed have another wedding to go to.

Good luck on the day though and hope it turns out really well - have you asked the Bride and Groom if you are able to post the pictures on the Internet for all to see as part of your portfolio (and a record of the day for us here interested in your work? :))
 
Sounds like you are getting it all covered now :clap:

Main thing is to relax.

I would check out the venues beforehand .... At the same time as the big day. Check the suns position.

Look into making a good slideshow from your shots .... Always goes down well. I use proshow gold but there are a few programs about.

Best of luck to you both.

We all want to see the results.


:canon:
 
Matt - I take it that you have business use on your car insurance? Worth considering if not because if the worst happened with all your kit in the car even if you have cover for personal possessions in the vehicle if the insurance co gets wind of the fact that it was being used for a business (not your regular employment) they won't pay out for any damaged kit, and might not pay out on anything else that's not third party either.
 
Domestic, Pleasure and commuting. Fully comp.

Seeing as though we don't actually have a business at present I don't think its an issue, commuting would cover it because we're going to the place, parking up and staying there all day, the kit will be with us all day, not leaving anything in the boot :)

But we're going to this one as guests anyway just guests with DSLRs ;)

Good point though and something to think about in the future, thankyou :)
 
Don't forget to take your camera, good luck.

Whens the event take place?
 
Well I went and looked around the place yesterday around the time we would be there for the actual wedding, much the same to see as on the website http://www.hoylecourt.co.uk/Hoyle_Court/index.htm there is no big tree which to provide shade around lunch time, so will have to see on the day.
Looking forward to this, fingers crossed I manage ok with my flash.
 
Good luck with this you two.:thumbs:
 
Thanks everyone for the words of support.

We got on really well today - nerves settled down once we got started and I think we've come away with some good shots.

The official tog seemed like a nice bloke - his wife (the boss) was terrible. I'd had a little chat with him about the light and things and she'd been giving us filthy looks. I stayed out of the way whilst they were taking their structured shots, the bride arrived and they had no shots planned of her getting out of the car so I stepped up to take some, and he moved into shot...oh well he probably didn't realise I was there - nevermind.

I left a lot of the shots alone because I didn't think it was fair to the official tog/and the shot was one they would have anyway until it came to the ones with the car in the background - it was something I wouldn't be able to replicate later in the day but rather than getting a shot of what they were taking, I'd take half of the photo - so the bride and groom rather than the bride, groom and bridesmaids - just for something different.

I did this twice and stood behind and to the side of the tog, well out of his way. Sue had already had a nice chat with her and had said that we didn't want to get in the way, etc - being really nice - at this time, sue was in the room for the ceremony and I was outside getting arrival shots...anyway - After these two shots his wife approached me and said "would you mind not copying out shots please?"

It wasn't a nice question either - there was a lot of snobbishness and nastyness in the question - probably because of the size of the 30d/grip/580ex/fong - it looks like a monster.

I replied with "I'm in a public place and I can take pictures of what I like, thank you very much" - A little nasty of me I know, but she'd p***ed me off (its amazing how easy it is to do that to me at the moment). So she carried on "well, they're paying for the poses blah de blah" - and I said well yeah, they've already paid for them, I'm just trying to get additional shots to complement what they're getting from you. The bride then chipped in and said she wanted me to be able to take shots but she wasn't having any of it - I backed down completely (I didn't want her day ruined after all) and I left them to it.

Once I'd stopped taking photos she was nice as pie, chatting to me, asking if I did it as a hobby, etc. Talked about working together and how they wouldn't get in the way of any shots we were taking. And how I could take shots once we were round the back because everyone takes shots there.

I let them go off into the room and the ceremony took place and I was busy getting shots of the reception room whilst it was nice and empty. After they'd come out, I purposefully stood out of the way and didn't take photos - I didn't want any additional confrontation and they were just that way out. Sue did take some of the shots (after all, she'd only asked me not to take any shots :P) There was another lady there with a fuji compact with a fixed lens who was also taking shots with us.

Apparently in the ceremony the wife had been looking at the mirror at the front and had moved in the way of anyone attempting to take a photo - when we were out in the garden at the back she attempted the same. So much for working together professionally ;)

Some of the lighting positions they used with the bride sitting on the grass in bright sunshine I wouldn't have dared attempt (metering nightmare).

I came away with some usual shots but was frustrated that I didn't get access to the shots I wanted to take - at our wedding last year the tog had no problems whatsoever with people standing next to him taking what he was taking and he was a lovely bloke.

I don't think I'd be able to be secondary photographer at a wedding again, but I think we could handle the setup on our own - our tog did lots of things with hands and the way the dress fell and things like that - these just told them where to stand.

Oh and the reason they were only getting 36 shots?............the tog was shooting on a minolta film body - even more of a nightmare for that metering (blown out dress anyone?). At least with digital you can see whats going on if you've taken a shot - unless he's just that good that he knows whats going to come out of the camera rain or shine. The bride's mother also said they didn't get a contract/invoice and wanted paying cash (tax dodging anyone?). Oh well, thats enough of a slating, we'll judge them by their pictures when they come back, I just hope they've done the lovely couple justice.

I felt a lot more relaxed once they'd gone, and was able to get around and do what I wanted - Sue felt the same.

All in all a great day out and it didn't feel like work - we got to soak up the atmosphere and enjoy it, it was also fun because its the first wedding we've been to since we got married last year :)

Cards were out by the guestbook and we've had a few people asking about portraits so we'll see how we get on.
 
And I'm not criticising film in any way shape or form - its just in the digital age, I couldn't shoot a wedding and leave not having seen what I've taken. I hope the shots are great, I really do.
 
Well done Matt and Sue.

I think you did the honourable thing by stepping out of the way and hope that your good nature wins you some of those portrait commissions....you both deserve it.

Hope the photos turn out well for you.

I think from what you have written that the day has actually boosted your confidence.

Well done once again.
 
I apologised to the bride later too, and she said oh no don't be sorry, I was right there with you. Impressed she was not.

We had nice overcast skies to bright blasting down sunshine too - it was a right funny old day, but lovely weather overall.
 
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