Improving the TP sharing forums

[toonamp]

I do agree that it is helpful to the person posting a pic to say that if something is too noisy, then to add how this could be rectified or tackled would be an ideal.

But ...... if I say that something is noisy, but have no idea how to suggest to combat it, should I just shut up instead? How about if something is specific to a camera system that is being used? Should I not say anything if I don't know anything about Nikon's for example?

Sometimes just by posting a basic comment, someone else can come along and run with it from there.

If you're knowledgeable enough, and have the time to make a crit, surely you can find the time to google for some positive advice, otherwise you can couch it in terms of your lack of knowledge of course.

I don't mean to be argumentative with you Sara, I'm just trying to point out that giving crit means a lot more than the equivalent of "Spiffing pixz mate"

This is trying to keep the thought process behind this thread going. If we're being asked to give crit, lets make sure it's of a decent quality, otherwise we're back to square one.

Could we have a grumpy old gits forum to let off steam please, that would be great and improve many peoples lives on here Immensely. Oh and it needs to be PC free too.

*snigger*

...Best post on the thread so far..............

Now Ade you would be one of my choices for writing a critters tutorial

 

[Matt]

the way that ideas are delivered is just as important as the content, the recent minor spat in this thread proves that point very well.

 

[toonamp]

the way that ideas are delivered is just as important as the content, the recent minor spat in this thread proves that point very well.

I agree, politeness and forethought are allways preferable, but substance and truth counts for much.

 

[SarahLee]

In the interests of moving this forward, I'm going to make my own commitment to try to contribute to the solution.

I'm on here most nights and spend most of my time in the personal challenges section - so from now on I will try to offer C&C on at least 2 shots outside of the areas that I usually visit.
I'm not very good at the technical side of things, but I do try to articulate what it is I like about an image, what I think would improve it and why.
If I can do it anyone can (and probably far better than me).

I reckon that if everyone who's contributed to this thread agreed to make a similar commitment, it would at least be a step in the right direction.

 

[fracster]

the way that ideas are delivered is just as important as the content, the recent minor spat in this thread proves that point very well.

Utter *******s, a good spat is good for all concerned...........

 

[swag72]

If you're knowledgeable enough, and have the time to make a crit, surely you can find the time to google for some positive advice, otherwise you can couch it in terms of your lack of knowledge of course.

Lets imagine the scenario - I am not knowledgeable in comparison to a large number of peeps on TP, but I do have time as I sit on my terrace in Spain D) - I can see a pic and see something that I think is wrong, but certainly wouldn't know how to google for the correct terminology etc (assuming that everything I find on google is correct of course ) - Should I say anything or leave it alone as I don't have the know how to say why it is wrong technically, let alone how to put it right.

I don't mean to be argumentative with you Sara, I'm just trying to point out that giving crit means a lot more than the equivalent of "Spiffing pixz mate"

I am with you on this, I want to see more crit, but just don't want peeps to feel they're not capable of giving it and so keep quiet instead

BTW toonamp - Are we having a spat?!!

 

[Dark Star]

I agree, politeness and forethought are allways preferable, but substance and truth counts for much.

And substance and truth and politeness and forethought are not mutually exclusive

 

[toonamp]

<excerpt>

I am with you on this, I want to see more crit, but just don't want peeps to feel they're not capable of giving it and so keep quiet instead

BTW toonamp - Are we having a spat?!!

<excerpt>

I thought we we're having a lively discussion, but then far be it for me to criticize those with a different viewpoint

My last thought was to discourage anyone from being a critter, just to make sure it's as good as the OPs posts and efforts deserve.

 

[Matt]

I thought we we're having a lively discussion, but then far be it for me to criticize those with a different viewpoint

My last thought was to discourage anyone from being a critter, just to make sure it's as good as the OPs posts and efforts deserve.

thats another thing, some people will view what you say and how you say it in a different way to how you may have intended it to come across.

 

[RKC]

OK, I'm not all the way through this thread but for what it's worth (nowt!) I'll add my input.

of course its worth something, fresh pair of eyes etc

I have only made a small handful of posts (5) with pics in for a couple of reasons:

1) I'm new here
2) I'm not that good. I know it, but I am here to learn and expand.
3) the In depth crit section scares me!
4) I don't get out anywhere near as much as I would like to or am able to.

When I have made these posts, I have had a little critique, but not a lot (between 0 and 5 responses)

That makes me think that a) I'm worse than I thought I was, b) nobody likes me

Paul if you want some more advice/input you can bump your thread here http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=138929 never be afraid to post any pic and ask for the feedback, all what you have said is how i used to feel when i first starting using forums

 

[toonamp]

thats another thing, some people will view what you say and how you say it in a different way to how you may have intended it to come across.

Yes I know I've had ample evidence.

So tell me how can I say this without offending anyone.

Most people on this forum cannot give decent crit. there are a few hundred that probably can, but you can't expect them to carry the weight of responsible crit on their shoulders.

If you start a thread and ask how to improve it expect people to give ideas that may not be acceptable to all.


Look at this post

You can only lead by example for so long. I've tried it in the past in the Landscapes section. It takes a few hours to go through just one page leaving considered comments and you just can't keep it up.

In the end it will just revert to nice shot once you take a day or two off.

We need much less critiqued content I think. That way there is a chance of improved quality.

A page of 30 landscapes post where 4 requested critique is do-able. 26 posts of I like' it' or 'sorry not to my taste' don't take too long.

Educate people, myself included.

I only came into this thread as it appeared to be getting bogged down in "Yes but what colour should we make the larfing monkey symbol in the level 42 forum for those wishing only real crit on a sunday?" type posts.

I hope I hav'nt come over as a sitting on the fence type.

*humour* *irony* *etc*

 

[lost]

thats another thing, some people will view what you say and how you say it in a different way to how you may have intended it to come across.

And that's how people get upset with critique i think the point has just been made over how answers are worded.
Everyone on this forum is different if we go down the route of critiqueing someones image and we pick faults we have got to be able to back up our words with what to do to put the image right. If we can't what right does it give us to criticize someones work in the first place.
Don't think im having a pop at any one im not but i can see a lot of trouble with the way this is going. There have been a good many ideas put forward but how do we implement them.
There has been a decent bit of feed back and im more interested in hearing what the site owners want to do. Maybe they should put a questonaire together and get every member to tick off what they want from the forum. Then maybe we might make progress

Regards
Richard

 

[kaz10]

Just a thought don t know if its been mentioned, would it usefull to beginners is we all posted exif details it might help people ask the questions why they were took with the settings we choose and why

 

[tiler65]

Why do the majority of the longest threads on TP contain NO photographs???????

 

[..MD..]

Why do the majority of the longest threads on TP contain NO photographs???????

Cos nobody needs to comment on them and upset anyone....


MD

 

[Snap_Happy]

The whole point is that everybody has a right to give criticism and everybody's opinion is valuable. You may not agree with it but it doesn't make it bad. Bad critique is when you don't say why you have a particular opinion.

Are you volunteering to write the tutorial?

To be fair, I've tried to once, but it never got converted to a full tutorial - if someone wants to resurrect/rewrite it, then feel free!

 

[alexkidd]

No offence meant but I really don't like any of the above idea at all :thumbsdown:

not really a massive fan of it myself but if it's wanted for people to post crit (especially new peeps) then there'll need to be some incentive

can't really see this all being sorted myself, it's one of those teacup in a storm moments, where we discuss and move on

 

[erding]

Would have thought that by now there would be some feedback from the admin regarding the various suggestions made in the thread as it been running a fair time now.

 

[smooth]

Would have thought that by now there would be some feedback from the admin regarding the various suggestions made in the thread as it been running a fair time now.

There has been throughout the thread to each main suggestion. None of them have really provided a solution...

 

[erding]

There has been throughout the thread to each main suggestion. None of them have really provided a solution...

Certainly nothing from Marcel, the OP, as to his views on the suggestions made, neither from DF.

Realistically there is never going to be a definitive solution but after suggestions/comments made here there should be some +ve's to come out of it.

 

[smooth]

Fair doos. Matty has commented though.

 

[fracster]

I`m sure the thread has been read and i`m sure it is under discussion in the cobweb festooned back rooms of TP..............

 

[erding]

I`m sure the thread has been read and i`m sure it is under discussion in the cobweb festooned back rooms of TP..............

aka the Jaffa den.

 

[erding]

Fair doos. Matty has commented though.

Quite agree - but if I recall correctly that has been more against specific suggestions to highlight the difficulties to implement that suggestion.

 

[cowasaki]

Oh and it needs to be PC free too.

Yes I agree, a Mac only thread would be useful

 

[ka$h]

Lets imagine the scenario - I am not knowledgeable in comparison to a large number of peeps on TP, but I do have time as I sit on my terrace in Spain D) - I can see a pic and see something that I think is wrong, but certainly wouldn't know how to google for the correct terminology etc (assuming that everything I find on google is correct of course ) - Should I say anything or leave it alone as I don't have the know how to say why it is wrong technically, let alone how to put it right.



I am with you on this, I want to see more crit, but just don't want peeps to feel they're not capable of giving it and so keep quiet instead

BTW toonamp - Are we having a spat?!!

Too add to your point Sara, if you offer a pointer on something you see wrong and don't know how to fix it, someone else comes along with the right solution, then both the OP and you yourself can learn from that so that's more benefit.

We are all still learning regardless of how good we are. Just some of us need to learn more than others.

 

[Marcel]

I've been keeping up to speed on the thread, and there are is a concurrent discussion going on in the staff room too

There are a few options in the offing, but they will be minor changes rather than something massive and radical. Re-educate the masses is the order of the day

 

[erding]

I've been keeping up to speed on the thread, and there are is a concurrent discussion going on in the staff room too

There are a few options in the offing, but they will be minor changes rather than something massive and radical. Re-educate the masses is the order of the day

'Minor changes' sounds like the Jaffa cakes are staying then......

 

[Marcel]

Jaffas are to be replaced by more dunkable alternatives like Hob Nobs.

And fruit for me.

 

[erding]

Jaffas are to be replaced by more dunkable alternatives like Hob Nobs.

And fruit for me.

Sounds like a +ve and healthy improvement Marcel

..........but dunking in what?????????

 

[tiler65]

Not just for the sharing forums but for all of them.....................

What about a differing colour for the threads that haven't been added to for say 12 months?

This way we won't get endless replies of 'Thread from the dead', 'this was two years ago, they never got married in the end', 'Bargain? they have dicontinued it now', 'if you are still looking for a second shooter this Sat May I offer my............wake up dude, this was last January!' etc. That must save time and space for the servers.

Keep up the good work chaps.

 

[desantnik]

I think the thing you are all missing when dis'ing people's ability to C&C photos correctly is that being able to analyse photos is a skill in photography far greater than any technical skill.

The analyse a shot correctly you need to understand what makes a good shot and why.

TP has some very good photographers who are regulars and offer help and advice regularly, but the ratio of "good" to "beginners" has shifted radically in the time I have been here and it does show when people ask for crit.

I'm not knocking beginners here, I am just saying that they are likely to feel they cannot comment in depth - because they haven't worked that bit out yet!

Its perhaps even more obvious in the critique sections that are more subject orientated than photography orientated. The denizens of animals, motorsport etc are probably more motivated by the content of the photo than the photography itself. A rubbish photo of a lesser spotted meerkat on Valentino Rossi's bike will attract a lot of attention, whereas a well composed and technical spot on picture of a starling sat on a Mini Metro will attract zero attention - even more so if there are 20 threads on the same thing because everyone was there to see the unveiling of the Starling-Mini-Metro.

So there is your problem - too many timid types not wanting to explore photography and people who care more about the subject than the art.

Chuck in on top the usual internet problems of it being a written medium and few these days seem to be able to string more than a sentence together, let alone present rational thought in such a way... and boom, forum meltdown.

Its not unique, forums have characters and lives of their own and they do change over time and you cannot control that dynamic. Some evolve into amazing places and others not - they are mearly mirrors of human social groupings in a virtual form. You can no more control this than you could with a group of real people, say a photography club.

Lastly, whether you like it or not, people will gravitate to only replying to certain people or at the very least being far more likely to respond to certain people than others. If I am chatty with you, you are more likely to be chatty with me on another subject in another time than you would if I was a total (virtual) stranger to you. Hence people perceive "clickyness" about forums - the same twenty people always comment on my photos and I on their's. It happens, its not deliberate, its just how humans form social bonds with each other. To get mega feedback and replies to your questions PARTICIPATE! If you are someone who feels they don't need any of that because you are "god", why are you taking part in a social network in the first place? Ask yourself that... you either enjoy the give and take or you don't so you might as go wash your dog or something else instead.

 

[posiview]

I've only been here a while and C&C as much as my limited knowledge allows me.

Where I have recieved C&C, sometimes I find myself reading comments and then saying, "and?"....

As an aside, I often think that there are too many photographs posted, especially where people post a lot in one post.

Perhaps limit to one or two per post....?