Improving the TP sharing forums

how about reward for offering crit? like a reputation system of some sort

not something that i'm overly fussed with but might stimulate people?

1000 points = subname of choice, 2000 = name change if you want it 3000 = colourful name

i dunno but you get the idea :)
 
alexkidd said:
how about reward for offering crit? like a reputation system of some sort

not something that i'm overly fussed with but might stimulate people?

1000 points = subname of choice, 2000 = name change if you want it 3000 = colourful name

i dunno but you get the idea :)
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No offence meant but I really don't like any of the above idea at all :thumbsdown:
 
Yeah, me either, it's too much like the whole "Karma" thing that so many forums started doing about 6 or 7 years ago that just completely fails at every turn.
 
Amp34 said:
This thread was in response to the thread that I posted, which was about the lack of crit. This lack of crit seems to be (partly) caused by people worried about criting work. The solution to that worry is now being discussed. :)



But isn't that just what we have now? Problem is it doesn't seem to be working as well as it should.
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Quite true and I feel that is because there is this grey area between what what a OP is expecting when they post a shot and what they actually receive. If people have concerns about leaving any comments, because they feel they do not have the technical ability to provide C&C, then a 'Nice shot' type comment is better than no comment. The other end of the spectrum is where the manner of a comment results in dummy spitting which just doesn't work to anyones benefit and is likely to put people of making any comment.

I don't believe there is a definitive solution as everyone has there own interpretation as to what is a comment or what is critique e.g. 'Nice shot - would benefit from a tighter crop' Which camp does that fall into?

The fact the OP is posting a image is very much inviting something. If they indicated within the opening post if they are looking for just comments or critique as well would give any viewer an indication as to what is being sought and the viewer could use the posters post count as a guideline as to their response.
 
lost said:
The only reason i came up with that idea is that it seperates the 2 no more moaning that there's to many posts and people who only want to critque a image don't have to look to far they are all on one forum section. The images for sharing forum would probably suit long running threads , Bird ID, Behaviour traits And Humerous posts + pictures people wanted looked at and shared with a soft pointer or 2 or not. I think it's the best i can come up with so im now going to leave it to others and the site owners and watch what happens.

Regards
Richard
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Quite follow your reasoning Richard but I don't think it would beneficial to anyone.

For example you pop into the 'Nice shot' bird forum and look at a posted image, which with your experienced eye would be improved by say some sharpening, NR, different crop, dusties removed. Do you:

a. Just leave a 'Nice shot' comment
b. Leave a 'Nice shot but would benefit from.....' comment
c. Leave no comment which leaves the OP in a quandary as to why their image is receiving no feedback and therefore their ability to improve is limited.
 
littlemonster said:
And all you can think is "WELL THERE AIN'T GOING TO BLOOMIN BE A NEXT TIME IS THERE!" :D And you end up suicidal realising you ruined your once in a lifetime shots, kill yourself, family members find out why, consult lawyers, forum gets shut down and everybody suffers. Think how much more horrid that would be than 1 non C&C forum?
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:shrug: perhaps it would be an idea to have the contact details for the Samaritans in the header to each forum :exit:

:D
 
I haven't posted any images for a while and the simple reason for this is i haven't took any that are particularly good or that I want c + c on. When I do post I really want C + C because it really helps an amateur like me learn , I dont care If no one likes them because theres something not quite right with my shots , so long as people post and tell me whats wrong . if people post nice shot everytime (which doesn't happen much with my stuff!) then I'm not learning much. I consider myself able to take crit and wouldn't post if this wasn't the case.
i'd hate to see this great forum get dumbed down in any shape of form and I think any wholesale changes need to be considered very carefully

I personally think people need educating and that its peoples mindset that need changing and not the nuts and bolts of the forum
 
Surely as this is a photography forum, then members come here to be involved in and learn about PHOTOGRAPHY and thus should be prepared for crit if they post an image :shrug: where ever they post it :bat:
If the image is the once in a lifetime, never to be repeated "youpi, I got a (insert dream model here) at last" then it's quite easy to note that in the post, that way peeps know that C&C is not really required, other than that it's de rigueur. Simple, everyone knows where they stand.

For the tricky beast that is giving critique, then:

If you really hate a shot best to say nothing.
If you can point out where the shot has gone off the rails technically then do so.
Most people respond better to the carrot and stick rather than just the stick, so try and show a little respect for the person you are critiquing and don't just slap them down ( I know most don't ;))

For those posting images, If you get critique you don't like, remove ego and have another look at the shot considering the crit given, don't just throw the dummy and pout.

Mind you, all this has been said before and will I'm sure be said again :shrug:

AGGHHH, it's a lost cause we're doomed, all doomed.

:tumbleweed: :exit:
 
erding said:
Quite follow your reasoning Richard but I don't think it would beneficial to anyone.

For example you pop into the 'Nice shot' bird forum and look at a posted image, which with your experienced eye would be improved by say some sharpening, NR, different crop, dusties removed. Do you:

a. Just leave a 'Nice shot' comment
b. Leave a 'Nice shot but would benefit from.....' comment
c. Leave no comment which leaves the OP in a quandary as to why their image is receiving no feedback and therefore their ability to improve is limited.
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Or in birds there is the 4th option:

d. The posters who are not part of the 'gang' basically get ignored and have no feedback whatsoever.

At least that is usually what happens to mine. :(
 
RobertP said:
Looking at some of the ideas earlier in the thread how about..

A simple [critique please] prefix (like in the bargains section) that you choose if you want indepth (or whatever you get) critique. default is no prefix so you posted for sharing and nice shot only. Don't ask don't get.

All become fluffy kittens sections unless you choose the prefix, in depth goes and so does the renamed fluffy kittens just for sharing section.

nsfw cant have critique as well just to keep it simple. Maybe say 2 images max if you choose critique and you must add some explanation text of what you tried/need help on or it don't count?
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Thats what i think would work more than anything !

Dark Star said:
I think the prefix should be for NO C+C as the default should be C+C unless you request otherwise! Just my view. The majority of shots are here for C+C let the minority use a prefix ;)

4 better than 2 as well :)
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Sorry mate, dont agree with 4 shots at all, 2 max if you want critique of them, otherwise you fall into the "oh gawd, ive got to crit all 4 of these if i do one" camp !

Think the category should be crit please as at the moment there isnt much crit happening. And putting no crit wont change anything lol ;)
 
I agree with a smaller number of images. It will hopefully maker the photographer think more about which shots to post.
I crit some but will crit more if there is not so much to go through.
 
OK, I'm not all the way through this thread but for what it's worth (nowt!) I'll add my input.

Are people really that shallow that it matters whom the criticism is off? As already been said, photography is subjective and you don't have to be a photography god to be able to comment or criticise. OK, so we shouldn't post up the obvious shots with photo bombers or lampsosts in the middle of the car types, they're not really 'best' shots that you want critique on anyway.

All memebers should be encouraged to post comments, and as again has been said the 'nice shot' is acceptable as long as it is qualified with why the viewer thinks it's nice.

I have only made a small handful of posts (5) with pics in for a couple of reasons:

1) I'm new here
2) I'm not that good. I know it, but I am here to learn and expand.
3) the In depth crit section scares me!
4) I don't get out anywhere near as much as I would like to or am able to.

When I have made these posts, I have had a little critique, but not a lot (between 0 :'( and 5 responses)

That makes me think that a) I'm worse than I thought I was, b) nobody likes me :(

I've not posted that to get people to track all 5 down and throw comments my way but I start to feel that it's not worth bothering posting anything else up. I'm obviously just posting mediocre pics, I don't know how to make it better and I'm not getting any guidance or help.

I'd happily have someone (anyone) come up and say 'that's just average and you could have done.....' At least it points me in the right direction.

Maybe it's me that is taking this the wrong way and I ma expecting far too much from the community :thinking: I went out for a wander and managed to capture a Roe deer in a nice simple pic that to me was worth the effort and the couple of hours I'd spent out that night. 1 person commented to confirm it was a Roe which is good, as for the pic.... nothing :(

OK, a bit of a moan, a bit of a rant in a way. Regardless, this is the perspective of someone new to the site and not that experienced. There's some great people on here that do share, and I appreciate everyone's time is finite but some extra advice/comments to those posts with only 1 or 2 comments or by people who have 'new here' or 'getting comfy' wouldn't go amiss to make those people feel part of the community and to help them become better in what they do.

I say that all pics should be open to crit, some common sense from the poster to look at how long someone has been here to give an indicator on how 'harsh' to be, but is it not entirely obvious by the pictures someone is posting at what their level is?

Sorry, going on again, I'll leave it there for now

K
 
erding said:
Quite follow your reasoning Richard but I don't think it would beneficial to anyone.

For example you pop into the 'Nice shot' bird forum and look at a posted image, which with your experienced eye would be improved by say some sharpening, NR, different crop, dusties removed. Do you:

a. Just leave a 'Nice shot' comment
b. Leave a 'Nice shot but would benefit from.....' comment
c. Leave no comment which leaves the OP in a quandary as to why their image is receiving no feedback and therefore their ability to improve is limited.
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And there Tom you have hit the nail on the head. I just feel that 2 seperate sections would work better. If people are in the critque section they want their photographs critqued then you critque them and no one need worry about upsetting people because they have asked for that. Then the other section for sharing isn't just your fluffy kitten section it's a mix of everything else

When im on i work my way down the page new members and old i don't pick and choose. I will be honest if i come to a thread and there's 20 posts and they have covered everything and theres not a lot wrong with it ie it's sharp composition is reasonable exposure is correct i will leave a nice shot comment. Or if it is bordering on very good i will leave a great shot, And if it is really Good a superb comment that's me im lazy and don't like covering the same ground as other people . If people want a full Critique im quite happy to do it.
If a photograph isn't great i won't slate the whole thing i will pick what i feel is the images greatest fault and suggest maybe you could sharpen it a bit more and maybe while you are at it try cropping a touch from the top of The image sometimes this alone makes a difference to future posts by a person.

I believe in encouraging people without destroying their enthusiasm for a subject i.e telling them it's a crap image not worth my time critiqueing
like some of the posts




menthel said:
Or in birds there is the 4th option:

d. The posters who are not part of the 'gang' basically get ignored and have no feedback whatsoever.

At least that is usually what happens to mine. :(
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Hi Menthel
Im sorry if i have missed some of your posts but it's not intentional
on my part i never pick and choose. I will look out for 1 or 2 people i share a laugh with but i do try to go through other peoples threads as well. One of the problems is the amount of turnover in posts not all get spotted.


Regards
Richard
 
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been thinking a bit more about this and i reckon theres a very simple way of getting rid of a lot of "nice shot "type comments

get rid of the post count feature

probably wouldn't be too popular though
 
mrgas said:
been thinking a bit more about this and i reckon theres a very simple way of getting rid of a lot of "nice shot "type comments

get rid of the post count feature

probably wouldn't be too popular though
Click to expand...

I genuinely believe that, apart from those rushing to get access to classifieds ;), the 'nice post' shots are indviduals simply wishing to register their appreciation of a shot...all we need is for them to have the confidence to expand on 'nice shot'
 
mrgas said:
been thinking a bit more about this and i reckon theres a very simple way of getting rid of a lot of "nice shot "type comments

get rid of the post count feature

probably wouldn't be too popular though
Click to expand...

As John says, the only people who post "nice shot" to increase their post count are the ones who are after classifieds access and the are dealt with in a different way. ;)
 
Dark Star said:
the 'nice post' shots are indviduals simply wishing to register their appreciation of a shot...all we need is for them to have the confidence to expand on 'nice shot'
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:agree:

and at the same time not being the subject of some dummy spitting because they gave their opinion on a photo.
 
Sorry, but 'nice shot' has to be an option - sometimes you just like a shot that's just not of your own genre, but can't qualify it in words. It's either that or you are forced to pick a fault with it, which is unfair.

To me the biggest problem is still the number of images that can be posted in one thread - more than 4-5 and I'm outta there, no matter how good they are. It's either that or 'nice shots,' as trying to individually crit 10-12 images just make it a full-time job and hard work.
 
Dark Star said:
I genuinely believe that, apart from those rushing to get access to classifieds ;), the 'nice post' shots are indviduals simply wishing to register their appreciation of a shot...all we need is for them to have the confidence to expand on 'nice shot'
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Confidence or ability?

I don't think there are many people on here that are capable of giving good criticism.

Loads who think they can though ;)

Do some tutorials on "How to give crit"
 
toonamp said:
Confidence or ability?

I don't think there are many people on here that are capable of giving good criticism.

Loads who think they can though ;)

Do some tutorials on "How to give crit"
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A bit of both, we have plenty of that material in and around and perhaps it should be stickied

There is critique and there is critique

Each of us knows why we like or do not like an image (ok sometimes its indefinable) but in the main if people said 'Nice shot...I like this because...." or "Hmmm doesn't work for me because....." thats a step in the right direction

Equally (and I am guilty of this) when a shot is posted if the poster explains what they like about it or want advice on then it all becomes easier to comment against and I will certainly change my style after this thread!

At the more expert end of the scale there is the expert critique, the technical stuff...well we all have to start somewhere and expanding on 'nice shot' is the first step to getting people thinking about critique properly.

I agree though a tutorial is a good idea (if there isnt one already!)
 
toonamp said:
I don't think there are many people on here that are capable of giving good criticism.

Loads who think they can though ;)

Do some tutorials on "How to give crit"
Click to expand...

In my opinion only, this is exactly the sort of comment and perception that stops people giving criticism in the first place. I have just spent how long trying to contribute to TP to have it inferred that I can not give good crit as I'm not capable :bang:

Grrrrrrr. Best get my coat then :coat:
 
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toonamp said:
Confidence or ability?

I don't think there are many people on here that are capable of giving good criticism.

Loads who think they can though ;)

Do some tutorials on "How to give crit"
Click to expand...

Expressing why you yourself like a picture should be possible for almost anyone. For instance, someone could say 'I like it, because it's nice and sharp and the colours are good'.

You don't have to go into aperture/depth of field/shutter speed/detailed EXIF discussions/composition/etc to explain why you like something.

You could even provide more constructive criticism by describing what you do not like about a shot and suggesting how it might be improved upon, without using technical terms/principles - 'It might look better if those blades of grass were not in front of the pet', or 'Consider taking pictures of birds when there is better light outside, such as earlier or later in the day'.

I am sure that if people know that it's fine if they provide comments which elaborate more on what they think about a picture, without having to delve too deep into how photography/cameras works exactly, they will gladly do so.

PS. Tutorials are fine as long as they are not rules on what to say when and how to say it. I'd rather have someone use their own words when giving their opinion, as we're not pieces of software evaluating an imported image, we're people :D
 
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Just an observation

1 I bet we don't get more than 1% of the people on TP voice an opinion :thumbsdown:

2 I have watched threads unfold once you have a couple of nice picture comments most people follow suit :wave:

3 Im waiting for people having to expand their critique descriptions some will copy what has gone before human nature im afraid :naughty:

4 Maybe i'll be wrong about the above and people will really go to town on the critique and we will have wholesale blood letting :bonk:

Human nature very rarely surprises me :shrug:

Just occasionally i see a spark of hope ;)

Then again if the majority like it the saying if it ain't broke don't fix it :eek: springs to mind

Regards
Richard
 
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swag72 said:
In my opinion only, this is exactly the sort of comment and perception that stops people giving criticism in the first place. I have just spent how long trying to contribute to TP to have it inferred that I can not give good crit as I'm not capable :bang:

Grrrrrrr. Best get my coat then :coat:
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In my opinion only, this is exactly the sort of comment and perception that stops people from bothering to comment in threads such as this.

Going for the sympathy vote won't increase your ability to give good crit though.

If you've taken my post as relating to you personaly, so be it. You must be questioning yourself, good :D
 
toonamp said:
In my opinion only, this is exactly the sort of comment and perception that stops people from bothering to comment in threads such as this.

Going for the sympathy vote won't increase your ability to give good crit though.

If you've taken my post as relating to you personaly, so be it. You must be questioning yourself, good :D
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Not very nice imho ! :nono: not very constructive tbh nor very encouraging

IanC_UK said:
Sorry mate, dont agree with 4 shots at all, 2 max if you want critique of them, otherwise you fall into the "oh gawd, ive got to crit all 4 of these if i do one" camp !
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I disagree. I find with 6 shots I get people at least choosing which they like most and why - I find that useful. The more opportunities and ways there are to crit, without excessive photo posting, has to be a good thing.
 
Defiance said:
Not very nice imho ! :nono: not very constructive tbh nor very encouraging
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Id have to agree !

Defiance said:
I disagree. I find with 6 shots I get people at least choosing which they like most and why - I find that useful. The more opportunities and ways there are to crit, without excessive photo posting, has to be a good thing.
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I find with 6 shots i just hit the back button, or add nice set, which means you dont get any critique at all, if it was 1 or 2 shots im more likely to look and pass comment. I know thats just me, but with so many new pictures to look through every day, sitting trying to work out which of a set of 6 or more i like more and why just isnt feasible with the time i have available.

I guess if we all liked the same thing, things would be easier, but incredibly boring ;)
 
toonamp said:
Confidence or ability?

I don't think there are many people on here that are capable of giving good criticism.

Loads who think they can though ;)

Do some tutorials on "How to give crit"
Click to expand...

The whole point is that everybody has a right to give criticism and everybody's opinion is valuable. You may not agree with it but it doesn't make it bad. Bad critique is when you don't say why you have a particular opinion.

Are you volunteering to write the tutorial?
 
Perhaps I was tad overreactive to Saras response. My apologies Sara
 
As some of you know most of my stuff is posted in the bird forum.

There have been two main people that have dragged me out of the utter comtemtable class into the heady hights of almost acceptable. Their knowledge, and ability to to communicate it, with kindness and absolute clarity was my benchmark for crit.

Unsurprisingly they are IanC and CT. Ian used to post much more at one time. If there was a crit, there was without fail a solution, and often a posted example or edit of my pic, the old show and tell, hard to beat.

Most people now are wise about the "too noisy" "too sharp" kind of remark, and that's now passing as decent crit.
 
I agree that something needs to change in the critique sections for all the reasons outlined above.
Personally, I tend to stick to using shots for my 52 thread purely because when I've posted in the other sections there never seems to be much of a response.
However, I don't know what the answer is which is why I've avoided commenting in here until now :thinking:

Personally the whole idea of rankings and ratings leaves me cold. It's all a bit Flickr/Facebook-esque which is a big turn-off for me.
This site is called Talkphotography - so use the forums to talk :)

I absolutely agree that more information from the OP would help with C&C.
OK, a mediocre photo is still a mediocre photo no matter who posted it.
But if it's from somebody very experienced in that genre who normally posts superb images then that is very different to a beginner to that area. If somebody has struggled with a genre and has taken their photos from poor to mediocre IMO they deserve some encouragement as well as C&C on how to continue improving.

I'm just not sure that tick boxes and ratings are the best way to convey that.:shrug:

Just my 2p worth - and if a ratings system will rejuvenate the site then maybe it's worth a try.
 
toonamp said:
Perhaps I was tad overreactive to Saras response. My apologies Sara
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Accepted.

I do stick by my original comment - And would like to clarify that I was no absolutely NO way going for a sympathy vote, just a statement of fact with regards how that kind of comment gets my goat up.

Capable of crit.......... For Heavens sake, you'll be saying we all need an NVQ to be able to write a comment. I write what I see, and if a horizon is wonky then I'll say so. I may not know the fundamentals of photography, but surely offering something up is better than nothing at all :shrug:
 
SarahLee said:
Personally the whole idea of rankings and ratings leaves me cold. It's all a bit Flickr/Facebook-esque which is a big turn-off for me.
This site is called Talkphotography - so use the forums to talk :)

I absolutely agree that more information from the OP would help with C&C.
OK, a mediocre photo is still a mediocre photo no matter who posted it.
But if it's from somebody very experienced in that genre who normally posts superb images then that is very different to a beginner to that area. If somebody has struggled with a genre and has taken their photos from poor to mediocre IMO they deserve some encouragement as well as C&C on how to continue improving.

I'm just not sure that tick boxes and ratings are the best way to convey that.:shrug:
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Wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments re ratings and tick boxes.

We are ALL photographers, whether we are beginners or expert/pro, we ALL have a valid opinion, as with art, its a purely personal thing how a picture makes us feel, and if there is something not quite right, we should be able to point at that, even if we dont know how to suggest its put right, somebody else may.
 
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Well, I am very new here. In general this is the best photo forum I have visited, there is a very wide range of subjects covered and the site is well structured.

My first impressions of the image feedback were everyone was trying to be nice, nothing wrong with that.

However if you are hoping to improve you have to listen to criticism, but you do not always need to act on it!

I think on the whole, how it is delivered is balanced. I would like a album with example images that have been slightly poorly processed, as sometimes I see a comment of "a little too much noise" or "over saturated" but I can not see what they mean.

As I said on the whole the short time I have been here I have learnt a lot just reading the posts, so thanks.
Amac
 
swag72 said:
Accepted.

I do stick by my original comment - And would like to clarify that I was no absolutely NO way going for a sympathy vote, just a statement of fact with regards how that kind of comment gets my goat up.

Capable of crit.......... For Heavens sake, you'll be saying we all need an NVQ to be able to write a comment. I write what I see, and if a horizon is wonky then I'll say so. I may not know the fundamentals of photography, but surely offering something up is better than nothing at all :shrug:
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Evidently not according to this thread. I stick by my original post though, that most people have no idea how to give crit.

If we're to say why it's a "Nice Piccy" I luvs the colours etc. Surely if we say "Too noisy" then say how to do it properly. If not at least come back and comment on the editing the OP has gone to the trouble to do. That's a rarity. It conjures up an image of the lone critter galloping across the threads dropping in to spread his wisdomly words and never to be seen again.
 
I do agree that it is helpful to the person posting a pic to say that if something is too noisy, then to add how this could be rectified or tackled would be an ideal.

But ...... if I say that something is noisy, but have no idea how to suggest to combat it, should I just shut up instead? How about if something is specific to a camera system that is being used? Should I not say anything if I don't know anything about Nikon's for example?

Sometimes just by posting a basic comment, someone else can come along and run with it from there.
 
Could we have a grumpy old gits forum to let off steam please, that would be great and improve many peoples lives on here Immensely. Oh and it needs to be PC free too.
 
Ajophotog said:
Could we have a grumpy old gits forum to let off steam please, that would be great and improve many peoples lives on here Immensely. Oh and it needs to be PC free too.
Click to expand...


:lol:...Best post on the thread so far..............:thumbs:
 
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