I'm hoping Canon's 5DX/3 is not like the D800

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So, no doubt the D800 is a superb camera. The D700 was great, so if the D800 is even better, then cool :)

Here's a theory. Was the D800 conceived at a time when Nikon looked at the 21MP 5DII and thought “We are missing out on a market here”. If it was, then I guess you could go as far as saying the D800 was designed to blow the 5DII out of the water.

I sit here hoping that someone in the Canon offices looked at the D700 and said – “Hmmmm, we like that. Maybe our next 5D model should blow the D700 out of the water”.

I don’t want more MPs. My 5DIIs give me 21 gazillion of them. When I’m shooting portraits, I am still blown away by the detail (especially as I only shoot using L glass). With weddings I curse the 5DIIs inability to focus in very low light, the noise at high ISO and the size of the raw images.

So, for me – (and I know I am being selfish), from the 5DIII/X (whatever it is called), I want –

1. No more than 21MP (maybe slightly less)
2. A better focusing system
3. Higher ISO capabilities
4. Not just down to the camera, but how about a better ETTL system
5. I want a camera - not a video camera. So make it cheaper for me please.

If Canon launch the 5DIII/X with all the above, and ANOTHER camera with 30-40MP, I’ll be very happy.

Just my thoughts. I’d be interested in yours.

Cheers.

Dav
 
I agree with the most part of what you said, particularly surrounding the focusing and ISO handling. I used one on a photoshoot last weekend and I was happier with my 500D than that.

We can all guess that it'll be powerful as hell, Digic5 processor(s?) and it'll take a huge bite out of the 7D's cake with focusing.

I can't see it being cheaper because of the video though. Canon didn't realise when they first released it just how big the camera would actually be, so now they will give it incredible video capabilities alongside amazing imaging technology.

I can't wait for it to come out, simply because the 5D3 will be competitively priced and if I don't want it, I'll get a 7D. :)
 
Can I add, built in wireless flash (radio) + WIFI enable for wireless tethering!
 
So far you have described 1Dx and perhaps 1DsIII... let's hope 5Dx gets close The wifi flash is very cool idea, but then would they leave it out from 1DX just to launch it in a lesser body a couple months later?
 
Hopefully the 5D3 adopts the focusing and ISO performance of the 7D, maybe better, boost the sensor to 24mp and improve on the 7Ds video.
 
don't think they will introduce wireless tether. They won't be able to charge you stupid amounts of money for the add on module anymore. I Might pick up a used mk2 when you boys are all selling up sounds like plenty will be going cheap :)
 
I'm looking forward to what the 5D3/X will bring over my 5D2, but for me I'm not going to buy another DSLR. Since buying m4/3 gear it's clear this is the future. My view is that a good CSC will be fine 80% of the time, for the other 20% you'll need a DSLR, but I'm more likely to take out my m4/3 gear due it's flexibility and size. Longer term mirrorless systems will continue to chip away at that 20%. Just my view.
 
I generally agree with the OP's points, although I can't see Canon not including video and to be honest I think the 5 D replacement will be a lot like the D800, look at the 1DX and D4, they are very similar (and actually fit the criteria mentioned too).
 
ShrubMonkey said:
I'm looking forward to what the 5D3/X will bring over my 5D2, but for me I'm not going to buy another DSLR. Since buying m4/3 gear it's clear this is the future. My view is that a good CSC will be fine 80% of the time, for the other 20% you'll need a DSLR, but I'm more likely to take out my m4/3 gear due it's flexibility and size. Longer term mirrorless systems will continue to chip away at that 20%. Just my view.
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I do agree with you, even if I don't currently own anything 4/3, I think it will be a couple years though before most would be willing to replace a crop of FF sensor with 4/3. I still think they're more experimental, young technology.
 
I doubt I'll be in the market for a D800 or 5DIII so I'm really just a tourist here.

What I can admire about Nikon is they seem to be moving things on with new models and don't seem too afraid about relatively cheaper models having features and capabilities which appear to slightly tread on the toes of more upmarket models. Canon seem (IMVHO) to be much more conservative in this regard and I'd therefore be surprised if they didn't hobble the 5DIII slightly in relation to other models in their lineup. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a 5DIII which is little more than a warmed over 5DII although it would be very disappointing if the 5DIII upgrades are just an increase in mp count and a higher res screen.

Slightly off at a tangent to MFT. I'm a bit of a fan of MFT at the moment and if there could be just a couple of tweaks, like a hybrid OVF/EVF so that I could use the OVF and preserve my night vision for the few occasions every year I shoot in almost darkness, and the release of some lenses to my liking, I'd be even more of a fan.
 
1 - Megapixels
There are jobs where 10Meg is fine and others where I've wished for the ability to aggressively crop. I just want the ability to chose which to use for each job. Mid 20's is fine by me. Larger files can make PP too slow.

2 AF
Must be faster
Must work in low light
Must work at more than just the centre point in low light. (I use 2.8 gLass)

3 - Iso
A clear 64k would allow me to skip flash in the typical light conditions I'm in.

4 - Shutter sync speed
No less than 1/250th.

5 - Dual memory card slots

6 - a nice large grip.
There seems to be a disturbing trend to make grips smaller. I dont want to go back to having my fingers bleed after a long days shoot from the nails digging into the body.

The Nikon D800 seems to have met my upgrade criteria so it will be interesting to see if Canon can too. If not... Hello Nikon? - Assuming their grip isnt too small now!
 
"I'm hoping Canon's 5DX/3 is not like the D800 "

I'm actually in the opposite camp to that.The D800 looks to tick every box for me in a camera(for 2012 anyway).
They don't cripple their cameras which Canon are notorious for(below 1 series).I'm just worried it will be more of the same with the 5D3/X whatever.
Some of the stand outs for me on the D800 are pro level AF,built in flash,AF at F8(very useful on a full frame camera),great AEB options,built in timelaspe functions,twin cards,36mp that allows for a very handy 16mp crop or 25mp 1.2 crop.Stick on the battery grip and you potentially have a 1 camera does it all scenario for a large chunk of people.
Will Canon tick these boxes for "me".I really hope so but doubt it.I hope they pull one out of the bag and very quickly.
I think we could actually end up with a lot of people swapping brands here.It looks a bit like Nikon have made the 5D replacement and Canon are about to make the D700 replacement.

It's boiling down to D800 or 17 TS&E for me.

Gary
 
You might not like the video but it's proven to be a huge hit with programme/film makers for it's cost and versatility/size.

I'd say video stays in but the hdmi output will be full 1080 for external monitors.
They'll introduce features from the 60D such as small vga mode shooting, 16:9 4:3 format, perhaps more options for audio control.

Perhaps they'll look at magic lantern's offerings and add a few more features.
 
vulcan2912 said:
"I'm hoping Canon's 5DX/3 is not like the D800 "

I'm actually in the opposite camp to that.The D800 looks to tick every box for me in a camera(for 2012 anyway).
They don't cripple their cameras which Canon are notorious for(below 1 series).I'm just worried it will be more of the same with the 5D3/X whatever.
Some of the stand outs for me on the D800 are pro level AF,built in flash,AF at F8(very useful on a full frame camera),great AEB options,built in timelaspe functions,twin cards,36mp that allows for a very handy 16mp crop or 25mp 1.2 crop.Stick on the battery grip and you potentially have a 1 camera does it all scenario for a large chunk of people.
Will Canon tick these boxes for "me".I really hope so but doubt it.I hope they pull one out of the bag and very quickly.
I think we could actually end up with a lot of people swapping brands here.It looks a bit like Nikon have made the 5D replacement and Canon are about to make the D700 replacement.

It's boiling down to D800 or 17 TS&E for me.

Gary
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My guess is that it will still be crippled related to the 1DX in some way, or why would people buy the 1DX?

Personally, I'd rather not see built in flash, I'd rather have the continuous metal over the top for a more solid body.

Time lapse feature would be nice, although I understand that is something that Nikon have offered for years, so isn't new with the D800.
 
All it needs is better AF in lower light and an improved high iso rating.

A bonus would be radio triggers for OCflash built in but that would require a new flash gun too but The 580II and it's ettl is overdue an upgrade any way.
 
The D800 is not for me. far too many mp. I was more than happy with the output from my 5D2 in terms of IQ. I'd take a dent in mp for improved high ISO and increase in DR. I don't want a view finder stuffed with focus points.

TBH if they released a 5D2s with an upgraded AF system that worked better in low light and had more cross type points I'd be more than happy. not bothered about video and most of that is probably software anyway.
 
My two-penneth...

Without doubt the most successful by-product of the 5D2 was its video functionality, no matter how flawed it may or may not be several years after its release compared top newer cameras. It probably still stacks up really well. I doubt canon would sacrifice this feature, as it's one that has undoubtedly accounted for an increase in sales to non-photographers.

I can't see canon going down a retrograde route either by taking on the D700. Megapixels will increase for sure, probably to mid-20s but I think you're right on all other accounts regarding AF and ISO, although I wouldn't want to guess at how Canon would integrate wireless flash. I haven't used the 7D's wireless function so can't comment on its effectiveness opt whether it'd suit a newer camera.

Whatever happens, I don't think Canon will get it wrong; it's more about how 'right' they get it in comparison to the existing model's flaws....
 
I got a Mk1 and never jumped to the mk2, tbh I prefer the images I've seen from the mk1 to those of the mk2 on comparison sites. I hope as they did with the G series they drop the Mp count a little unless they can increase without getting all noisy above 1600.
Af as everyone knows needs an upgrade for low light work but that will take sales from the 7 and the 1 series, although if they dont they might lose sales to Nikon/A N Other anyway. A few more focusing point s wouldnt go amiss. I can see video playing a huge part in the new camera, even though I personally dont want it. I doubt there's enough room for twin cards. I dont want an onboard flash but a trigger would be nice to have, IR would be ok then it would be backwards compatable but I can see the call for radio for greater reliability.
Body size cant see that increasing.

Not actually sure what they can do from a stills image pov that wont take sales from other things in the line-up, maybe they wont make a mk3 but just let it slowly die in Mk2 form, we'd all moan but then maybe get a 7 instead.

Matt
 
Craikeybaby said:
Personally, I'd rather not see built in flash, I'd rather have the continuous metal over the top for a more solid body.
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A flash should not make one jot of difference to the solidity of the body.

A built in flash is a very useful thing IMVHO and although I do own a 5D the fact that it doesn't have a flash irritates and annoys me. Every single 35mm film SLR I owned had a flash and none of those fell apart in any way what so ever and what I've always wanted is a direct digital replacement for those cameras and it bugs the TOM that Canon still doesn't offer one.
 
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Dav, you've said everything I have said about the 5D's replacement.

To date, I've never turned the video on, I shoot mainly in dimly lit cabaret clubs, so high iso and ability to focus accurately on my chosen point within the frame is a must. A stop better iso performance would also be rather nice as I tend to shoot a fair bit at 3200 / 4000.

So, in a nut shell

Better ISO
Wider spread of focus points that actually work in low light to get the benefit of the ISO performace.

I'll be a happy bunny with those points now that my proposed upgrade to a 1d has been scuppered by the price hike for the 1dx
 
digitalfailure said:
Dav, you've said everything I have said about the 5D's replacement.

To date, I've never turned the video on, I shoot mainly in dimly lit cabaret clubs, so high iso and ability to focus accurately on my chosen point within the frame is a must. A stop better iso performance would also be rather nice as I tend to shoot a fair bit at 3200 / 4000.

So, in a nut shell

Better ISO
Wider spread of focus points that actually work in low light to get the benefit of the ISO performace.

I'll be a happy bunny with those points now that my proposed upgrade to a 1d has been scuppered by the price hike for the 1dx
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Seems like you need a D700 or a D3 variant ;)
 
removing video wont make it cheaper - all the technology for the video is made by live view - once live view is in the camera adding video doesn't add much cost.

I'm happy with the high ISO of the 5d, i never have an issue with noise.

I'd like the autofocus system of the 7d

I want the ability in Av mode to set a maximum limit for the shutter speed to drop down to and once it gets there it adjusts the ISO instead like you can do on a nikon.

Give me those two things and I'll be happy with a 5d mark 3
 
I'd like to see eye controlled focusing reintroduced
 
specialman said:
Seems like you need a D700 or a D3 variant ;)
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Nah, I have too many £ invested in glass to make the switch viable, otherwise I would have gone down the D3 route. IF canon can just give the new body an AF that is worthy of this decade and a smidge more iso performance so I can shoot at 6400 without resorting to excessive noise removal my wallet will open. On the whole the speed and functionality of the 5d2 is fine for me.
 
joescrivens said:
removing video wont make it cheaper - all the technology for the video is made by live view - once live view is in the camera adding video doesn't add much cost.

I'm happy with the high ISO of the 5d, i never have an issue with noise.

I'd like the autofocus system of the 7d

I want the ability in Av mode to set a maximum limit for the shutter speed to drop down to and once it gets there it adjusts the ISO instead like you can do on a nikon.

Give me those two things and I'll be happy with a 5d mark 3
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You want just what I want! The Nikon min shutter speed sounds great
 
I'm betting that this 5Dx (as a pure guess at the name) will be pretty near to the D800 spec wise.

Well I'm also betting I'll win the lottery soon as well.
 
I'm hoping Canon don't do a Nikon and shoot themselves in the foot to a major degree. They announce the D4 recently and say this is the flagship model (that will do battle with Canon's 1Dx) and price it at £4,800. Then a few weeks later they announce the D800, with 20Mp more, same AF system, lower bottom end ISO but fewer fps and price it at £2,400.
How many people apart from sports togs are going to spend twice as much for the extra fps and an ISO ability that your average person will never use. I'm pretty sure the pro & prosumer market will end up buying the D800 and Nikon will have to swallow a massive loss on the sales of the D4.

With all the talk of the 5D3 announcement being imminent, surely Canon wont follow suit and bring out a 36 Mp FF sensor, similar 61 point AF, 50,000+ ISO, and maybe 6 fps and then only charge half the amount compared to the 1Dx. Maybe it's just me, but I can't see why anyone would buy the 1Dx (other than sports togs again) instead of the 5D3. If the 5D3 came out at 18Mp FF, similar AF to the 7D, 7 or 8 fps and a 50,000+ ISO it would sell by the bucketload and the sales of the 1Dx wouldn't plummet either.

Surely, it would cut massively into the sales of the D4 and 1Dx by releasing such fully featured cameras at this time, and what company in this economic climate would want to do just that. I just cannot work it out, anyone else got any ideas?
 
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One thing that will always interest me is better ISO performance, I despise flash in most situations.

However, I feel Canon should almost make a DSLR thats main focus is video, but then thats the C300....
 
TBH, all I care about is the price of it. I want it to be low enough (after the initial RRP madness subsides) to affect the prices of used 5DIIs.

Whatever the spec of the 5D3, I think a 5D2 and 7D combo will still be a better, more flexible solution.
 
Other thing I can think of is 1080p60 video, the 5Dmk2 pushed video boundaries, so why shouldn't the mk3 follow suit and be the first HDSLR to offer it?
 
If it has better af and slighlty better ISO performance I'm switching for sure. I love my D700, but much prefer the files from the 5DII and Canon glass.
 
The23rdman said:
If it has better af and slighlty better ISO performance I'm switching for sure. I love my D700, but much prefer the files from the 5DII and Canon glass.
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What is wrong with a d800 Dean?
 
I'm sure most of us hover around the canon rumours site, but If you don't, here is a cut n paste from their site.


Interesting thought
A split in the 5D line has been*rumoured*for a while now. This rumor was not submitted to me, instead it was sent to [NL]. It’s consistent with some things I have heard, however take this one with a large grain of salt.

5D X

45MP (With a pixel size similar to the power shot G1X)
61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)
3.4 fps, 100-6400 (50-12800)
1 Digic 5+ Digic 4
5D Mark III

22MP
61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)
6.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)
1 Digic 5+ Digic 4
Best HD video quality of any EOS camera
Both over $3k

Source: [NL]
 
tiler65 said:
What is wrong with a d800 Dean?
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Lenses, Tom. I much prefer Canon glass and skin tones from Canon.

I'll add that at least 1/250th sync is essential too.
 
Maybe Canon have both of the above cameras good to go and are seing what the reaction to the D800 is before deciding which one to unleash on the world.

The real good point for Canon shooters is the £2399 entry point for the D800.You would think Canon will have to really try to get somewhere close to it.The D800 is a good enough camera to woo potential buyers on it's own so if Canon come in with a stupid price it could just be the push a lot of potential switchers are looking for.

I have my advert for all my Canon gear ready to go if Canon try and palm us off with another crippled camera.

Gary
 
The23rdman said:
Lenses, Tom. I much prefer Canon glass and skin tones from Canon.

I'll add that at least 1/250th sync is essential too.
Click to expand...

Canon does indeed produce nice colours :love:. 1/250s+ is currently available in all 1-series cameras, so even if they mess up there will be some affordable 1DsIII to pick up. It's the best 35mm cam out there till the new ones hit the stores.

vulcan2912 said:
Maybe Canon have both of the above cameras good to go and are seing what the reaction to the D800 is before deciding which one to unleash on the world.

The real good point for Canon shooters is the £2399 entry point for the D800.You would think Canon will have to really try to get somewhere close to it.The D800 is a good enough camera to woo potential buyers on it's own so if Canon come in with a stupid price it could just be the push a lot of potential switchers are looking for.

I have my advert for all my Canon gear ready to go if Canon try and palm us off with another crippled camera.

Gary
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D800 is the first Nikon that looks really appealing to me. It is not quite enough yet to justify the switch, but if many other Canon users do I will be certainly looking forward to getting some more affordable quality glass.
 
Main thing for me would be better focus. Fed up of the slooow focus on my MK2. Oh, and even better ISO would be great. Megapixels....not so bothered. Really cant see when i would need more than 21 unless i wanted to do a stupid crop.
 
The23rdman said:
Lenses, Tom. I much prefer Canon glass and skin tones from Canon.

I'll add that at least 1/250th sync is essential too.
Click to expand...

:agree:

I've been tempted by the D800 but like you, I think that Canon's glass is so much nicer (although I'll admit that that's a subjective opinion)! ;)

I'm going to be very interested to see what Canon's answer will be.
 
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