Identity theft is not against the law

[KIPAX]

This week my wife has had three letters.. One from "TIDE" a business banking account thanking her for opening an account.. A simmilar one from " Counting up" same sort of letter and worryingly one form companies house confirming her new company and directorship... I ahve searched companies house and confirmed she is now a dirctor..

So I contacted the police through https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/ and was given a Crime reference number... I then contacted both the above business banking services... "Counting up" replied within ten minutes confirming that the process was started.. thanking me for the info.. they checked companies house and said in block capitols that they are not and will not be dealing wiht this company... excellent response from them... Nothing from TIDE yet

But i have recieved what i find to be a very upsetting and shocking reply from the police crime fraud prevention team who say they cant dso anything as identety theft is not a crime ??? see below (I have made the important bit bold not them)

Now I know some people will explain why this is the case.... I dont really care to be honest as i now know beyond any doubt that this is indeed the case as the police have told me below... BUT I was shocked and not very happy and wanted to share this with others who at some point may go through this... theres nothign we can do until the bailiffs arrive demanding repayment of something i guess

RE: xxxxxxxxxxx


Dear Miss xxxxxxx


You recently made a report which we recorded under NFRCxxxxxx


Home Office Counting Rules set out the circumstances under which we can record a crime and on this occasion the matter you reported to us cannot be classified as a police recorded crime. Home Office Counting Rules for Fraud and Cyber Dependent Crime can be found online at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/counting-rules-for-recorded-crime.


You have indicated within your report that the misuse of your personal details or that of a company trading style played a part in the matter you are reporting. The use of another person’s identity, often referred to as identity theft, is not a police recordable crime. Where the details are used to obtain goods or services, we can only record a crime on behalf of the person or organisation which was defrauded as a result of the misuse of an identity.


An example of a situation in which we could record a crime would be where details were used to obtain credit, the use of which left the provider of credit with a financial loss. In these circumstances we would record a crime for the provider of the credit and look to establish if there was scope for the matter to be investigated.


Whilst the misuse of your identity cannot be classified as a police recorded crime, we do recognise that identity theft can cause significant distress and inconvenience. For advice and support, please see www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud_protection/identity_fraud.

 

[woof woof]

Amazing.

That's modern policing I guess.

 

[Box Brownie]

Sounds more like the law/legal system has some catching up to do!

Though not directly akin to stalking which by news reports is a recordable crime (or is it?) Identity Theft could be seen in a similar manner i.e. a form of stalking with the aim of theft by deception!

 

[KIPAX]

Sounds more like the law/legal system has some catching up to do!

Though not directly akin to stalking which by news reports is a recordable crime (or is it?) Identity Theft could be seen in a similar manner i.e. a form of stalking with the aim of theft by deception!

The aim is surely going to be some sort of deception and money related... surely they can see that and they have the opportunity to prevent it .. but no

 

[woof woof]

The aim is surely going to be some sort of deception and money related... surely they can see that and they have the opportunity to prevent it .. but no

As the police seem unhelpful at this stage could a solicitor help?

 

[ecoleman]

They're a bit busy checking peoples thinking on t***ter

 

[Box Brownie]

The aim is surely going to be some sort of deception and money related... surely they can see that and they have the opportunity to prevent it .. but no

You mentioned Companies House......do they have a reporting system to let them know of the problem?

 

[lindsay]

Report it to Companies House too

 

[KIPAX]

already reported to companies house.. awaiting there response.... sorry forgot to list that in the op

 

[Box Brownie]

I wonder if a letter to your MP might trigger a response on the subject and it's apparent non criminality

 

[KIPAX]

I wonder if a letter to your MP might trigger a response on the subject and it's apparent non criminality

going to give companies hosue and the second bank company 24 hrs see if they respond as positive as the first bank.. if they can stop the company and other account then we should be ok

meanwhile worry what the postman brings tomorrow

 

[ecoleman]

I'd keep an eye on your credit report and get a note added to it

 

[KIPAX]

I'd keep an eye on your credit report and get a note added to it

never had one.... wouldnt know how... havent had anyhting on tick for 40 yrs

BUT good call thanks @ecoleman .. going to get on that

 

[KIPAX]

PS she hasnt had any dodgy emails so its just name and address being used

just did a credit score using clearscore.... first time we ever did this and she got 923 which looks good going to monitor that as i suppose anyone doing anyhting in her name will effect that... good call @ecoleman

 

[andya700]

They're a bit busy checking peoples thinking on t***ter

They also have to devote a lot of time to practice their Macarena skills for upcoming Pride events.
Kipax, I wonder if rattling the IPCC would do any good, or maybe your MP?

 

[ecoleman]

PS she hasnt had any dodgy emails so its just name and address being used

just did a credit score using clearscore.... first time we ever did this and she got 923 which looks good going to monitor that as i suppose anyone doing anyhting in her name will effect that... good call @ecoleman

Don't just wait for the score to drop, you should be able to see things like hard searches which would indicate somebody applying for credit.

Also CIFAS is something to look at. This is related to fraudulent activity. This will affect not only the ability to get credit but even just opening a bank account.

 

[tarric]

Speaking to the BBC back in Feb this year the Kwasi Kwateng the then Business Secretary claimed the Prime Minister was correct to leave out fraud when quoting statistics stating crime has decreased, as they no longer count fraud as a “crime that people experience in their day-to-day lives”, unfortunately this man is now the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

 

[Box Brownie]

Speaking to the BBC back in Feb this year the Kwasi Kwateng the then Business Secretary claimed the Prime Minister was correct to leave out fraud when quoting statistics stating crime has decreased, as they no longer count fraud as a “crime that people experience in their day-to-day lives”, unfortunately this man is now the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Is this the distinction between a "White collar crime" vs a "Blue collar" crime?

And is fraud excluded because no one is deemed to get hurt!!!!!

 

[4tea2]

This problem was discussed recently on Radio 4 You and Yours. I'm sorry to say that it makes very worrying listening. Listen again via this link

Or via BBC News via this link

 

[Milo King]

I would do a search on companies house for your wife's details, they rarely stop at just setting up one company when committing this kind of fraud.

 

[KIPAX]

Companies house has just responded and I am posting here to keep updated as I am sure someone else will go through this at some point..

Please note, this e-mail has been forwarded to the relevant department for a reply to your enquiry. You have been copied in for information only and do not need to respond.
Please could you provide us with a suitable response that we can forward to the customer within 10 working days. Please reply to the contact centre, ensuring that you include your full name, section and job title at the bottom of your response.
If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
To get in touch you can email us at enquiries@companieshouse.gov.uk or call our Contact Centre on +44(0)303 1234 500
Alternatively please visit our website at https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/companies-house

Yours faithfully, A. Howe Customer Advisor Companies House Contact Centre enquiries@companieshouse.gov.uk

So looks like no rush .... hopefully someone else will pick it up and do something... the sooner companies house sorts this the less chance of the scammer succeeding

 

[KIPAX]

I would do a search on companies house for your wife's details, they rarely stop at just setting up one company when committing this kind of fraud.

yep just the two entries for the one company as secretary and director

 

[KIPAX]

Is this the distinction between a "White collar crime" vs a "Blue collar" crime?

And is fraud excluded because no one is deemed to get hurt!!!!!

But my wife is deeply upset (shes like that.. my english rose..very delicate 33 years together never heard her say a swear word... that sort of person) .. a lot more upset than a footballer being called names on twitter i would guess and they get the full force of the law helping them

 

[Box Brownie]

yep just the two entries for the one company as secretary and director

Is the registered address of the company your address or another and if another have you looked on street view for what the address actually is?

Such as an Accountant or Solicitor or (more likely?) a mail drop shop.

 

[Box Brownie]

But my wife is deeply upset (shes like that.. my english rose..very delicate 33 years together never heard her say a swear word... that sort of person) .. a lot more upset than a footballer being called names on twitter i would guess and they get the full force of the law helping them

Exactly my point that is the Identity theft is not a police notification offence but the misuse of that ID theft to obtain money is the offence that is the 'disconnect' in that harm is caused before, during & after to the person in your wife's position.

The police/legal position seems to be "there, there don't worry dear" ~ that wrongness in the law I find offensive and reprehensible

 

[Tringa]

Companies house has just responded and I am posting here to keep updated as I am sure someone else will go through this at some point..




So looks like no rush .... hopefully someone else will pick it up and do something... the sooner companies house sorts this the less chance of the scammer succeeding

A confusing, to me anyway, reply you got from Companies House says -

They do not want you to respond, but want you to send a "suitable response that we can send to the customer ...." Who is , "the customer?"

Agree about contacting your MP and it is mad that using someone's identity isn't a recordable crime.

Dave

 

[Box Brownie]

A confusing, to me anyway, reply you got from Companies House says -

They do not want you to respond, but want you to send a "suitable response that we can send to the customer ...." Who is , "the customer?"

Agree about contacting your MP and it is mad that using someone's identity isn't a recordable crime.

Dave

@KIPAX is the "Customer" the reply he received was a notification that his enquiry had been forwarded to the relevant department who would provide an answer to his enquiry........for 'them' to send to Kipax.

Yes, it reads torturously but that is what it says to me.

 

[KIPAX]

Juts had an email form the second bank account opened in my wifes name and the company name.... The first account was with https://countingup.com/ and they replied positively within ten minutes of my email to them.. The second account is with https://www.tide.co/ who have finally replied this morning... with... almost word for word the exact same reply as the first company...

Hi Julie,

Thanks for getting in touch and letting us know.
It appears that a business has been newly incorporated with Companies House and
appears to be registered under your address.

You have received a generic marketing letter based on the public information we
acquire from Companies House regarding the newly incorporated businesses. We can
confirm that we do not provide our services for this business.

We recommend that you raise this with Action fraud and we can confirm that we

have also taken necessary action from our end.

If you have any further questions please let us know.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[Box Brownie]

Juts had an email form the second bank account opened in my wifes name and the company name.... The first account was with https://countingup.com/ and they replied positively within ten minutes of my email to them.. The second account is with https://www.tide.co/ who have finally replied this morning... with... almost word for word the exact same reply as the first company...

Hmmm!

So are both banks are in effect.....saying they 'watch' Companies House for newly registered companies and then write to them 'on spec' inviting business

If so I suppose that is one way of marketing!

By implication your communication with Companies House is the only primary action you can take to underline that a (likely) fraudulent act has been perpetrated!

Though as I suggested earlier it may/is a good idea to write to your MP but I would copy that letter to:-
Home Secretary
Business Secretary
Justice Secretary
Police & Crime Commissioner (for your region)

Maybe even start a .Gov petition on the subject.

 

[KIPAX]

As nothing else has happened my plan now is to await an actual contact from companies house then see whats next... they have to reply within 10 days of yesterday so hopefully sooner rather than later.. If the company is dissolved or her name taken off that could be the end of it..

 

[lindsay]

Or you could, for £8 or £10, fill in form DS01 on the Companies House website to have the company closed and struck off. That might spike the guns of the fraudsters

 

[KIPAX]

Or you could, for £8 or £10, fill in form DS01 on the Companies House website to have the company closed and struck off. That might spike the guns of the fraudsters

i didnt know any of that? will google

 

[omens]

So we had a similar thing whereby someone had set up a business at our home address but under someone else’s name. Action fraud didn’t want to know. Companies house has a form to report on but also want proof of your ID, address etc. Funny how they didn’t need any of that when setting up the account!!!

 

[woof woof]

You know... This and a couple of other threads I've read recently have had me wondering what the country and indeed the world is coming to? Or maybe I'm just getting older and turning into Victor Meldrew.

I hope you get this bizarre and worrying situation sorted KIPAX.

 

[KIPAX]

Still nothing from companies house about the dodgy company.... But I have now recieved a letter from HMRC with a Unique tax Ref number in relation to said company

I will ahve to wait until Monday to try and sort that one out

 

[Pound Coin]

You know... This and a couple of other threads I've read recently have had me wondering what the country and indeed the world is coming to? Or maybe I'm just getting older and turning into Victor Meldrew.

I hope you get this bizarre and worrying situation sorted KIPAX.

I think the answer is clear.

Sucking money out of services like the police at a time when more is needed. Sucking money out of staffing businesses and organisations like the Inland Revenue, Companies House, just at a time when more staff are needed.

 

[woof woof]

I think the answer is clear.

Sucking money out of services like the police at a time when more is needed. Sucking money out of staffing businesses and organisations like the Inland Revenue, Companies House, just at a time when more staff are needed.

You forgot to get Brexit in there somewhere.

 

[woof woof]

Still nothing from companies house about the dodgy company.... But I have now recieved a letter from HMRC with a Unique tax Ref number in relation to said company

I will ahve to wait until Monday to try and sort that one out

If these things go to your address how does the scammer then get hold of them?

 

[Box Brownie]

Still nothing from companies house about the dodgy company.... But I have now recieved a letter from HMRC with a Unique tax Ref number in relation to said company

I will ahve to wait until Monday to try and sort that one out

If these things go to your address how does the scammer then get hold of them?

I thought that aspect a little odd too

Though, perhaps a bit like cloning a car number plate........ criminality can be committed but the miscreant is not the person pursued by the law! If this is the aim of the 'action' then hopefully the steps being taken by @KIPAX will be adequate.

Having said that I do wonder if he needs to take some legal advice to put up some (ring)fences, so to speak

 

[Pound Coin]

You forgot to get Brexit in there somewhere.

Why should I have done? This is caused by underfunding and demonisation of people their work. However, it is good to hear that you see Brexit as a negative factor.

Back on topic, I find Companies House response to be incomprehensible sloping shoulder stuff.