How to shoot a wiper blade and keep it ALL in focus?

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nawest

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I do all sorts of product photography but I'm having real problems trying to achieve the right results with this one!

I need to shoot several car wiper blades looking from one end but with the full blade pin sharp and large (i.e. filling the frame). I'm able to shoot close up and sharp but with a shallow depth of field, OR I can shoot with a large depth of field but the image is soft.

Currently, I'm trying different combinations of 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm and 70-300mm lenses, with differing distances from the subject and various aperture settings, but I'm finding that no approach gives me more than a few inches of the blade in sharp focus. I'm having to take multiple pics focused on different points and then merge them in Photoshop. But even here, I have problems, because even manually changing the focus, changes the size of the blade in the resulting image, meaning I can't simply take lots of pics, overlay them, and mask the blurred parts of each. Have you tried manually aligning partially blurred images in PS? - it's not easy!

Any suggestions for a different approach, or is it simply that I don't have the correct lens for the job?
 
why not see adverts for wiper blades that show them. It may give some help

Realspeed
 
fast shutter speed and possibly some flash to help freeze the motion.
 
Motion?
 
Use a smaller sensor camera, this doesn't sound like a situation that needs high iso or mega dynamic range.
 
I take it that your shooting these are product/studio type photo's rather than on the car? if so the easiest thing to do would be to shoot from a flat angle at say f/8 and that should a nice sharp image, if however you want a more dynamic angle, I'm not sure but it sounds like you need multiple blades in frame in a line up, that's going to make it harder, I'd suggest maybe considered focus stacking and merging multiple exposures into a single image :thumbs:
 
The best answer is a tilt shift lens using the tilt function to put the plane of sharp focus along the blade .
Lenses for hire in the UK have this one Nikon PC-E 45mm f/2.8 D ED Micro which should do the job
 
Try using the 50mm at f5.6,at 3 meters from blades, gives you DOF of 0.826m. You can then crop the pic to what's needed.
Think that's right!
 
nawest said:
Any suggestions for a different approach, or is it simply that I don't have the correct lens for the job?
Click to expand...

If the blade's nearest end is very close to the camera you'll find this very hard with a SLR, or any rigid body camera. You could focus stack it of course.

I'd be using large format for this job, as you can alter the plane of focus with movements. You could shoot the blade at relatively modest apertures and keep it all sharp from front to back. Maybe not helpful.. but if you do a lo of work like this, it's something to consider. There's a reason still life photographers still use it.

I'd probably focus stack it if I had no equipment that allowed movements.
 
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Thanks all

In no particular order:
I'm shooting one blade at a time
Hanging using fishing line in a studio
Camera is a D90 on a tripod
No movement

A few of you have mentioned image stacking which I'm having to do, but what I hadn't realised is that changing the focus (without moving camera or blade) actually resizes the image on the sensor. Meaning I get a series of images that are all different sizes. Also, because there are not enough corresponding 'sharp' points on the images, PS appears unable to resize and stack them, so they need doing manually, which isn't easy!

Scottishguy, you mention using a 50mm at 3m which would give a useable depth of field but the blade would be tiny in the resulting image - I need to use as much resolution as the camera can give me. i.e. the blade filling the frame.

I think several of you are right with the tilt-shift lens, but the job doesn't warrant the additional cost. All the blades are going to be digitally 'airbrushed' anyway, so I can fix any problems then, but I was trying to get the best possible image to start work with.
 
Can you be certain that fishing line is keeping the blade still.....this sounds like one reason why you are struggling. (there must be a reason why you are hanging the blades though although I cannot think of one)

Personally I would lay the blade flat on white, shoot from above and move the blade and not the camera along the plane, then join in PS - cut out - and you have a wiper blade.

Without all the facts, you make trying to help harder.
 
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Your only options, if good image quality is to be maintained, are either focus stacking or a tilting lens.

Shooting smaller and cropping to increase DoF won't work because will diffraction kick in earlier. A large format camera with tilt movement could do it but you'd need f/64 or something crazy. There is reciprocity between formats for this kind of thing resulting in swings and roundabouts compromises.
 
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Steve Smith said:
With an LF camera and tilting and swinging lens board you could do it almost wide open.


Steve.
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No chance. The larger format starts out with much shallower DoF, but you can stop down further because diffraction starts much higher up the aperture range.
 
I like the idea of using a (preferably high grade) compact if the budget's tight.
 
DemiLion said:
I like the idea of using a (preferably high grade) compact if the budget's tight.
Click to expand...

That will increase DoF, but with diffraction hitting some three to four stops lower down the aperture range, image quality is stuffed.
 
Only way to do it is tilt and shift, even a F64 you would be struggling...
 
A sample image or example image would have been useful....

Presume something like this is what you're after producing?? But sharp along the whole length?

Focus stacking is likely to be your way forward. (With the kit you have).
 
As its snowing outside I thought I would have a little play to show you the effect of a tilt/shift lens,apologies for the subject and lighting.
For info the front end of the rule is about 12 inches from the lens and the back of the rule with the holder is 26 inches from the lens.
The close ups are 100% crops from either end of the rule.

p1430130714-4.jpg


Then a crop from one end

p1430127792-4.jpg


and from the other end

p1430127782-4.jpg


These are using a Canon 24mm TS-E at f7.1

Hope its of use

Chris
 
troutfisher said:
As its snowing outside I thought I would have a little play to show you the effect of a tilt/shift lens,apologies for the subject and lighting.
For info the front end of the rule is about 12 inches from the lens and the back of the rule with the holder is 26 inches from the lens.
The close ups are 100% crops from either end of the rule.

<snip>

These are using a Canon 24mm TS-E at f7.1

Hope its of use

Chris
Click to expand...

Great example :thumbs:

It's hard to see how far the DoF extends beyond each end (if at all) and there's no comparison without using tilt, but a quick visit to DoFmaster suggests that without tilt and focused around 20in from the lens at roughly half way up the ruler, DoF would only be 7.4in total.
 
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Indeed a great example and shows what the answer is to the OP's problem. As Troutfisher has pointed out, Stewart at Lensesforhire has a TS Nikkor in his inventory and gives (IIRC) good rates to fellow forummers.
 
HoppyUK said:
Great example :thumbs:

It's hard to see how far the DoF extends beyond each end (if at all) and there's no comparison without using tilt, but a quick visit to DoFmaster suggests that without tilt and focused around 20in from the lens at say 8in on the ruler, DoF would only be 7.4in total.
Click to expand...

The DOF is wedge shaped with a T/S lens,what you are doing is placing the plane of sharp focus along the line of the object.
This explains it far better than I can
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/tilt-shift-lenses2.htm

Chris
 
HoppyUK said:
No chance. The larger format starts out with much shallower DoF, but you can stop down further because diffraction starts much higher up the aperture range.
Click to expand...

You could shoot that wiper blade at f5.6 on a large format camera... easy.

Have a butchers at [YOUTUBE]gR4m70xr9mE[/YOUTUBE].. that will explain.

Using a tilt shift lens is the same principle.
 
HoppyUK said:
No chance. The larger format starts out with much shallower DoF, but you can stop down further because diffraction starts much higher up the aperture range.
Click to expand...

But if you put the plane of focus precisely along the edge of the wiper blade, you don't need much depth of field.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4851246349_a4411b421a_o.png

Pookeyhead said:
You could shoot that wiper blade at f5.6 on a large format camera... easy.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I have seen that video before. It explains what can be a complex process in a very simple and easy to understand way.


Steve.
 
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overbez said:
A sample image or example image would have been useful....

Presume something like this is what you're after producing?? But sharp along the whole length?

Focus stacking is likely to be your way forward. (With the kit you have).
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I'm trying to achieve.

Thanks for all the comments, especially to troutfisher for your introduction to tilt shift - that's exactly what I need, but it's too late for this shoot.

Some have questioned why I'm hanging the blade to shoot. I'm doing it because my big, tripod-mounted, continuous, octagonal soft boxes don't drop down to table level, so the light from 'above' casts shadows on the table and blade. In a suspended position (at just below camera level), I can light it however I wish, including from below. In terms of movement, it does move if disturbed, but I make sure it doesn't whilst taking the pic.

I did try with a compact, a Sony RX100, but a variety of magnifications, apertures and distances didn't produce as good as the D90 could.

I the end, I've gone for the D90 and 70-300 at the 300mm end, f18 at about 2m away. I've had to take six shots and stack them manually in PS. It was the only way I could get a few reasonably sharp images that fill the frame with the kit I've got.

Thanks for all your help.
 
Pookeyhead said:
You could shoot that wiper blade at f5.6 on a large format camera... easy.
Click to expand...

O.K. Not easy but definitely possible. I have just done it with a 135mm f4.5 lens wide open on a view camera focusing on a Nissin coiled flash extension cable laid out over about 12" going away from the camera (perpendicular to the film and horizontal.

I can focus on the front or the back with the lens board parallel to the ground glass and can get the whole thing in focus without a lot of forward lens tilt. I'm guessing about twenty degrees.

Unfortunately, I'm having no luck photographing the ground glass otherwise I would show some pictures.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Unfortunately, I'm having no luck photographing the ground glass otherwise I would show some pictures.

Steve.
Click to expand...

Last time I did that it needed manual focus, man exposure at about +2EV and a towel over the head and camera to block out ambient light. It's not easy, but definitely possible! :)

Oh, and be prepared for a shed load of grain!
 
DemiLion said:
Last time I did that it needed manual focus, man exposure at about +2EV and a towel over the head and camera to block out ambient light. It's not easy, but definitely possible! :)

Oh, and be prepared for a shed load of grain!
Click to expand...

I have tried all that (it was a changing bag over my head). I could do with more light on the subject, less in the rest of the room and more space.

It would be much easier if I had a Polaroid back.

Anyway, I did this to prove it to myself. The excellent video posted earlier proves that it can be done.


Steve.
 
Pookeyhead said:
You could shoot that wiper blade at f5.6 on a large format camera... easy.

Have a butchers at <snip> that will explain.

Using a tilt shift lens is the same principle.
Click to expand...

HoppyUK said:
No chance. The larger format starts out with much shallower DoF, but you can stop down further because diffraction starts much higher up the aperture range.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand large format camera movements and having used everything up to 10x8 extensively for product photography there's no way you would get good sharpness as in Troutfisher's example on any large format camera at f/5.6. That's maximum aperture on most LF lenses.

You can't just keep tilting the lens for more and more DoF as you then run out of depth of focus at the image plane. Maximum depth is set by Scheimpflug.

Edit: rough estimate, on large format to replicate TF's ruler example (taken with tilted 24mm lens at f/7.1 on FF) would be a 75mm lens at f/22, on 5x4in.
 
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Steve Smith said:
O.K. Not easy but definitely possible.
Click to expand...

Well.. maybe not easy if it's something new to you, but someone working regularly with camera movements would find that easy to shoot wide open. By easy, I meant easy to someone experienced... as in it's eminently possible.



HoppyUK said:
Yes, I understand large format camera movements and having used everything up to 10x8 extensively for product photography

You can't just keep tilting the lens for more and more DoF as you then run out of depth of focus at the image plane. Maximum depth is set by Scheimpflug.
Click to expand...


What.. this?


p1430130714-4.jpg



No.. because if you tilt to focus along the plane of the ruler, you still don't have enough DOF on the vertical plane, so the top of the tape measure housing would be soft, but with the OP's dilemma of the wiper blade... easy.

With the above example I've just replicated it, and got it all tack sharp at F11 with a 90mm. That's still a very wide aperture for such a problem... if I had a digital capable LF camera I'd show you, but I don't so you'll just have to take my word for it. :)
 
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I'm simply working on the assumption that if Troutfisher needed f/7.1 with a 24mm tilt lens on full frame (bearing in mind that's the only actual example we've got) then the same image with the same DoF on 5x4 would need a 75mm lens at f/22 - not f/5.6.

It's easy enough to work out, using the reciprocal relationship between formats and lenses.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Well.. maybe not easy if it's something new to you
Click to expand...

It's not new to me. The bit that wasn't easy was that the only camera I have (almost) in one piece, hasn't really got a long enough focusing rack to do this. I had to take it apart and rig up the front standard forward of where it should be.

If I had a monorail camera - easy!


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
It's not new to me. The bit that wasn't easy was that the only camera I have (almost) in one piece, hasn't really got a long enough focusing rack to do this. I had to take it apart and rig up the front standard forward of where it should be.

If I had a monorail camera - easy!


Steve.
Click to expand...

Why can't the wiper blade be put on a movement 'rail' so that the focus is at exactly the same point every time and then blend the images in PP?

If I have chance tomorrow I will try it. Cheap camera and kit lens too!
 
tiler65 said:
fast shutter speed and possibly some flash to help freeze the motion.
Click to expand...

tiler65 said:
get a tripod too!
Click to expand...

tiler65 said:
Can you be certain that fishing line is keeping the blade still.....this sounds like one reason why you are struggling. (there must be a reason why you are hanging the blades though although I cannot think of one)

Personally I would lay the blade flat on white, shoot from above and move the blade and not the camera along the plane, then join in PS - cut out - and you have a wiper blade.

Without all the facts, you make trying to help harder.
Click to expand...

tiler65 said:
Why can't the wiper blade be put on a movement 'rail' so that the focus is at exactly the same point every time and then blend the images in PP?

If I have chance tomorrow I will try it. Cheap camera and kit lens too!
Click to expand...

I just checked back in again, to see if anyone else had posted, and had a quick re-read of the posts. I noticed that Tiler65's posts appeared to be a mix of helpful and critical, but it was the final comment that riled me somewhat. I apologise Tiler65, if you weren't really implying that I was using a cheap camera and kit lens, which may be exactly the case. But your comment (with exclamation mark) comes across to me as an elitist put-down.

That said, thanks for your help.
 
nawest said:
I apologise Tiler65, if you weren't really implying that I was using a cheap camera and kit lens, which may be exactly the case. But your comment (with exclamation mark) comes across to me as an elitist put-down.

That said, thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

The conversation had moved on to large and medium format cameras, which are not cheap even before getting lenses. I think what Tom is getting at is that it may be possible to do what you want with a standard dslr and lens. I don`t believe he was was mocking what kit you have at your disposal.

Though I may be wrong of course.
 
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