the black fox
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 17,082
- Name
- Jeff
- Edit My Images
- No
The Olympus one works on any camera , I had one for a short while but found it to unreliable and fiddly to set up
How do you shoot birds in flight?
- Thread starter Crotal Bell
- Start date
sk66
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 9,557
- Name
- Steven
- Edit My Images
- Yes
They are all cross compatible as long as the camera has a standard hotshoe (ISO 518:2006). The Olympus EE-1, Nikon DF-M1, etc will all work on a Canon DSLR. But I wouldn't actually recommend those... they allow too much play/movement, they have a comparatively small FOV (the frames/covers are pretty obstructive), and they cost too much for what they are.
Instead I suggest getting a separate hotshoe mounting rail and then you can use any holographic sight you want (total cost can be well under $100). Just look for a mounting rail that actually firmly locks into place in some manner rather than the typical twist down friction knob like many flashes use.
Last edited:
The EE-1 works well for me, I did end up getting a hotshoe adapter to help it mount more snug onto my Sony hotshoe though. The adapter also raises the dot sight higher which helps with larger diameter lenses.
Yes if you knock the sight, it might shift though I don't have any issue with that in the field. As SK66 says any holo sight will do if you can work out how to mount it (and as long as you have elevation + windage adjustments to dial it in correctly).
The little Swallows that I photograph are almost impossible to follow through the viewfinder at any reasonably magnification when they're hunting and I don't think I would get very many hits at close range without the dot sight. I've never really needed it for larger / slower flying birds, but it's always on my camera just in case. The same when I'm panning - much easier to judge the speed and direction of a motorcycle with the dot sight.
Yes if you knock the sight, it might shift though I don't have any issue with that in the field. As SK66 says any holo sight will do if you can work out how to mount it (and as long as you have elevation + windage adjustments to dial it in correctly).
The little Swallows that I photograph are almost impossible to follow through the viewfinder at any reasonably magnification when they're hunting and I don't think I would get very many hits at close range without the dot sight. I've never really needed it for larger / slower flying birds, but it's always on my camera just in case. The same when I'm panning - much easier to judge the speed and direction of a motorcycle with the dot sight.
gilbouk
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 3,527
- Name
- Gil
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Brentor
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 1,596
- Name
- Steve
- Edit My Images
- No
Sorry for the follow up, but any recommendations for holographic sights as Amazon has several and most get reviews from great to rubbish. Also how easy are they to use as you seem to have to hold them further away from your eye than you would with an optical viewfinder. Perhaps you use the sight initially and then switch to the viewfinder?
the black fox
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 17,082
- Name
- Jeff
- Edit My Images
- No
As a long term 20+ years wildlife shooter with long lenses , and having tried one of these out . My view is it’s purely pot luck with them . To be successful with b.i.f you HAVE to ensure a focus lock is obtained before depressing the shutter .
You will get the same results as with a dot sight just by holding the camera at arms length in the direction of the bird/s and pressing the shutter . Some of the shots will be in focus inevitably .. . .
There is no way round it whatever brand / type of camera you use the longer the lens the harder it gets
You will get the same results as with a dot sight just by holding the camera at arms length in the direction of the bird/s and pressing the shutter . Some of the shots will be in focus inevitably .. . .
There is no way round it whatever brand / type of camera you use the longer the lens the harder it gets
ezraszandala
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 6
- Name
- Ezra
- Edit My Images
- No
Hi Crotal, I'm new to the forum so sorry for my newbie status.
But I did want to add a couple of points if its ok as I've had some luck with decent bird photos in the past.
- Shoot in burst mode if you can, I know its a lot of extra effort going through and deleting unwanted files but you'll have a better chance for capturing a great shot
- As fast shutter as you can whilst balancing the aperture you can afford whilst keeping ISO low
- Of course then you have challenge of focus. On the one hand a fast, auto focus lens is great, but I actually use manual focus lenses (I know not always practical) but at least I can speed up the burst rate by focus not being used. So sometimes I'll need to use reference points to focus on, but over the years I've come to pull focus while in burst mode and it often does the job. So within a range of focus I'll take maybe 5-10 shots whilst slowly winding the manual focus as I'm tracking the subject. And because the shutter speed is really high (2K to 4K usually when on f2-3.5) I'm not too concerned about camera shake.
But I did want to add a couple of points if its ok as I've had some luck with decent bird photos in the past.
- Shoot in burst mode if you can, I know its a lot of extra effort going through and deleting unwanted files but you'll have a better chance for capturing a great shot
- As fast shutter as you can whilst balancing the aperture you can afford whilst keeping ISO low
- Of course then you have challenge of focus. On the one hand a fast, auto focus lens is great, but I actually use manual focus lenses (I know not always practical) but at least I can speed up the burst rate by focus not being used. So sometimes I'll need to use reference points to focus on, but over the years I've come to pull focus while in burst mode and it often does the job. So within a range of focus I'll take maybe 5-10 shots whilst slowly winding the manual focus as I'm tracking the subject. And because the shutter speed is really high (2K to 4K usually when on f2-3.5) I'm not too concerned about camera shake.
OP
Crotal Bell
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 3,470
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Thanks that's something for me to think about and try.
ezraszandala
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 6
- Name
- Ezra
- Edit My Images
- No
Hi Keith, sorry I just realised our names and usernames, sorry didn't mean to miss that. Also I read my reply and didn't mean it to sound like anything you might not have already known! I was just thinking about how much of a challenge I've had shooting manual focus (cause my lenses were initially for videography anyway) but they come across amazingly for photos its just hard nailing focus!
OP
Crotal Bell
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 3,470
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I've noticed this. I took your advice and had a couple of practice sessions on the local Seagulls. My hit rate has increased because I am being more patient and obtaining focus before pressing the shutter. It may sound obvious to some, but as a beginner I was lifting the camera and shooting too soon, always in a hurry to start a burst and get images.
I am calmer now, I let the camera do it's job and shoot when the time is right, and it's working pretty well even with Panasonic DFD.
I still have much to learn but I do think I am getting better, I don't get so over-excited and rush the moments now.
OP
Crotal Bell
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 3,470
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I appreciated the comments buddy, when people try to help me I'm always grateful.
ezraszandala
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 6
- Name
- Ezra
- Edit My Images
- No
Awesome any time! Can't wait to see more of your pics!
sk66
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 9,557
- Name
- Steven
- Edit My Images
- Yes
This is the type of sight I prefer because it has 3 levels of brightness and two colors which can help make it more visible or less obtrusive in different situations.
They are quite easy to use; you simply align the sight with the center focus point while the camera is in live view (a tripod helps a lot). Once aligned, if the sight is on the subject, so is the central focus point... well, that's the idea anyway.
In reality the sight's alignment is only accurate within a given focus range around the distance at which it was aligned... if you have a subject much closer/farther away then the focus point will be high/low; but knowing that you can compensate. And, due to parallax, the focus point can move around a little depending on your eye alignment (varies some with different sights)... so it is never entirely consistent. It tends to work better with cleaner backgrounds and with AF settings like Group (Nikon) or AF Point Expansion (Canon). And since you are not looking through the viewfinder to see what's actually going on you may (probably will) find yourself taking many more OOF pictures (depends on other settings and the situation as well).
But when it's a really difficult subject (swifts/swallows/etc) or high magnification (short distances/long lenses), to where you are struggling to get anything at all, it can make a big difference. Still, whenever possible I prefer to use the viewfinder and not the red dot sight... I've never found it beneficial to switch between them. And sometimes just using a looser composition and cropping in post can work just as well.
I have to disagree... in fact I use release priority (primarily/Nikon) precisely so that the camera will take a picture even if it does not have focus lock. I have many images over the years where the camera's AF was behind/off but the subject was still in focus (or w/in the DOF). And using a sight is (can/should be) far more accurate than just holding the camera at arms length and pointing it in the subject's direction... But when using a sight I might choose to switch to focus priority instead (will not take a picture w/o focus lock) just to minimize the number of misses/qtty of junk.
But that I agree with; the smaller/faster the subject, or the greater the magnification (longer FL or shorter distance), the harder it gets... exponentially.
Last edited:
the black fox
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 17,082
- Name
- Jeff
- Edit My Images
- No
Manual focus is great once mastered ,I’m not sure on the specs on Keith’s OP Croatal bells camera . But if it has focus peaking that’s a great tool for helping to ensure you grab focus . I can do b.i.f with a adapted 300mm Nikon f.4 lens on my Olympus .just wait till the blinkies light up the bird and fire away .possibly more accurate than a.f mode at times .
OP
Crotal Bell
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 3,470
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- Yes
The G80 does have focus peaking, so does this lock on fast enough for BIF? Presumably when you see the peaking colour on the bird you press the shutter?
sk66
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 9,557
- Name
- Steven
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Depends on the bird... and the camera to some extent. I.e. the G80 (and all mirrorless cameras) is using the processed demosaiced video stream for focus peaking (and most AF); and that means the data in the viewfinder is fractionally later in time.
Plus, if the subject is small/fast enough I am convinced that no current AF system can even see it. With some cameras (Nikon, Pentax, Canon w/ Magic Lantern, etc) you can set up trap focus for when the camera can see the subject... which is basically manual zone focus with automatic release when the camera sees the subject in focus. Or you can use manual zone focus, w/wo focus peaking/confirmation as an aid (deep DOF helps).
the black fox
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 17,082
- Name
- Jeff
- Edit My Images
- No
yep thats the way to do it ..cant at the moment find any demo photos so will take some over the weekend ?
Last edited:
OP
Crotal Bell
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 3,470
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- Yes
So something like F8 focuses better than F2.8?
sk66
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 9,557
- Name
- Steven
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Not exactly... depends on the camera, if it has f/2.8 focus points (i.e. some Canon/Sony) then f/2.8 will focus more accurately. But f/8 has a deeper zone of acceptable focus, and f/8 focus points will tend to focus slightly faster... so f/8 can get you close enough quicker.
And that all depends on the camera as well... i.e. if it's a DSLR that focuses with the aperture wide open you're probably not focusing at f/8 using only f/8 points, and the Nikon mirrorless won't focus using apertures smaller than f/5.6 unless they have to. But all of them will use the selected aperture for the exposure, so you always get the DOF benefit.
Many will say "I want max aperture for blurry backgrounds/subject separation"... and that's fine. But background selection (angle/distance/etc) is far more important and beneficial when it is possible (and it almost always is).
OP
Crotal Bell
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 3,470
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Very interesting, thanks.
I disagree that it's pot luck, but there is definitely a learning curve to getting the most out of the dot sights. . Autofocus on modern cameras is fantastic, but it can't work miracles.
Success rate with the dot sight all comes down to your chosen background and your exposure settings. I really try to make sure I have a dark or plain coloured background, with the subject in the light. I don't really press the shutter until I know that the scene itself supports the autofocus, and that I have the best chance of getting a hit.
With the dot sight always start with the background first, then look for a subject. I used to be very reactionary with wildlife shots, walking around and aiming all over the place wherever the action was happening but my ratio of good shots to bad was very low. I'm not talking about shots in/out of focus, I mean aesthetically pleasing shots.
So with the dot sight I try to work with cross lighting wherever possible, find a patch of shade to act as my background, and wait for the subject to enter the bright light before hitting the shutter. Take the camera off any auto ISO modes and shoot completely manual, so that you're underexposing that shaded area and you're only exposing for the bright light. The autofocus has no choice but to lock onto the most prominent element in the scene, because it's the only thing properly exposed - so by making sure that the only thing of note in your scene is the subject you can't really fail, even if the background is a little messy.
It was a bit of a revelation for me because I've learned that with any reasonably modern camera, if you're working hard to confirm that the camera has achieved focused on the subject then the chances are that anyone viewing your photograph will be doing the same. If something is distracting the autofocus enough that it's missing your subject, it's probably not a strong enough element in the picture.
^ Of course there are exceptions to this, some subjects are very small in the frame and even the best cameras make errors in judgement, but it's a good rule of thumb that I try to follow.
When I first started using the above method I practiced on insects in flight. They are tiny in the frame, and using a long lens with shallow focus you have no room for error. It's a great way to hone in on what works and what doesn't with the dot sight.
Last edited:
Thank you, hope it can be helpful
