Hobbyist selling shots?

[wyx087]

What is the best place and method to sell a few of my best photos?

Having done photography for a while, there are a few of my best shots I think could fetch a few pennies. I've hang a few on friend and family walls and they really liked it. So I'm just wondering are there any services that handles the sales part, you just have to upload your best shots.


I've found Alamy, which seems good, just wondering any better ones? is this website the right one for landscape shots?

Also what is the general view on this?

 

[steveo_mcg]

I have a horrible feeling about this thread...

I should clarify I don't think there is anything wrong with the suggestion but I've seen the way similar threads end up round here.

 

[MWHCVT]

Smugmug has been recommended to me as a place for you to sell images from the information in the OP I don't think Alamy is the thing your looking for, I guess your looking for a full sales and fulfilment service e.g. you just take a cut of the sale where Alamy is directed at corporate sales of images for corporate use e.g. advertising etc

 

[admirable]

Do you mean stock image sites or selling them yourself via your own website/local cafe/ebay?

 

[Durbs]

500px.com let you sell your images - they just take a comission.

 

[wyx087]

Smugmug isn't free, I doubt I'd make more than what they are asking as subscription.

does the free account of 500px get ability to sell? can't seem to find how it works with 500px.

I think I mean stock image website, as a hobbyist I don't really want to get burdened by business side of things.

 

[steveo_mcg]

From my understanding you need to have a lot of images with the stock agencies to get any meaningful return.

 

[MWHCVT]

Smugmug isn't free, I doubt I'd make more than what they are asking as subscription.

does the free account of 500px get ability to sell? can't seem to find how it works with 500px.

I think I mean stock image website, as a hobbyist I don't really want to get burdened by business side of things.

I cannot tell you about 500px last time I logged in they had just lost there sales fulfilment supplier but they may well have got a new one now, I believe the free accounts also offer he sales option

I'm not sure that you do want a stock site, to be honest I think that your a little confused about what you want

Fully Serviced Picture Sale
Basically sites like 500px, Smugmug etc offer you the ability to sell say a nice landscape to Mrs Smith on a Canvas, Smugmug charge Mrs Smith £100 for a canvas, it cost £50 to make the canvas and post it and then the porfits split between you and the service provider,

Stock Library
The likes of Getty, Alamy etc, these companies have your images on file and then sell the images to clients looking for an image to use for the likes of Advertising etc

Those are very basic interpretation of the difference, which are you thinking off??

 

[wyx087]

thanks Matthew for the clear explanation. You are correct, I am thinking of Fully Serviced Picture Sale. To offer a quick click to print for anyone happen to venture on my landscape shots.

sounds like 500px is the place to be?

 

[David Stallard]

Personally I would go with Smugmug but then I would say that - been with them for a few years and really can't fault them.

As the old saying goes - you get what you pay for!

.DAVID.

 

[MWHCVT]

thanks Matthew for the clear explanation. You are correct, I am thinking of Fully Serviced Picture Sale. To offer a quick click to print for anyone happen to venture on my landscape shots.

sounds like 500px is the place to be?

no worries :thumbs

Personally I would go with Smugmug but then I would say that - been with them for a few years and really can't fault them.

As the old saying goes - you get what you pay for!

.DAVID.

David, if you don't mind me asking, but how do you find your sales on there, what type of thing do you sell, and how often, interested to know as I've been evaluating smugmug for a while now

 

[ChrisGilbert]

I have always sold more pictures at exhibitions than online services. People like to have an idea of how something will look hung on thier wall and that's best achieved if they can see the thing for real.

 

[James J]

Fine art america is better than 500px for selling photos on as a hobbyist. 500px doesn't have enough flexibility for sales to be anything other than complete luck.

 

[David Stallard]

no worries :thumbs



David, if you don't mind me asking, but how do you find your sales on there, what type of thing do you sell, and how often, interested to know as I've been evaluating smugmug for a while now

PM sent ;-)

 

[Moreorless]

I have always sold more pictures at exhibitions than online services. People like to have an idea of how something will look hung on thier wall and that's best achieved if they can see the thing for real.

Having just started to try and sell some of my landscapes/macro's I'v found the same, not only does it help people visualise but it also means your up agenst far fewer rival sellers and can sell pics of an area in that area were I'd guess its most likely to appeal.

 

[Nod]

Do the likes of Smugmug et al communicate with HMR&C?

 

[ChrisGilbert]

Having just started to try and sell some of my landscapes/macro's I'v found the same, not only does it help people visualise but it also means your up agenst far fewer rival sellers and can sell pics of an area in that area were I'd guess its most likely to appeal.

Print-on-demand doesn't serve the spontaneous buyer.

 

[rpsmith79]

I am also interested in this as i have been looking too, the obe i have been looking most closely at is PhotoBox/PhotoBoxGallery as that is free to use

No idea on what the success rate is on there though

Do the likes of Smugmug et al communicate with HMR&C?

Do the likes of eBay and TP Classifieds communicate with HMRC?

 

[Nod]

HMR&C are starting to keep an eye on eBay (and have been watching boot sales for many years...) They're not bothered about people shifting unwanted kit but more and more people are trading there, so if you're one of them, keep good records and don't be too surprised if they come a'knocking.

 

[onomatopoeia]

Do the likes of Smugmug et al communicate with HMR&C?

If they are a company based in the UK they will have to file accounts, but I expect you knew that. Doesn't affect the OP selling their photos whether they do or do not.

 

[big soft moose]

HMR&C are starting to keep an eye on eBay (and have been watching boot sales for many years...) They're not bothered about people shifting unwanted kit but more and more people are trading there, so if you're one of them, keep good records and don't be too surprised if they come a'knocking.

Yep so long as someone isnt actually trading HMRC don't care

As long as you are not buying goods with the intention of selling them at a profit, you are not regarded as a trader," it says. "This means you do not have to notify us and declare the income on your tax return."

As trading is against the rules of the tp classified anyway, tax is irrelevant here

on the OP you will/should pay tax on any profits you make from selling your pictures via smugmug etc as HMRC will regard that as peoffesional activity - however smugmug etc don't actually communicate with hmrc (apart from their own tax return/accounts) as they'd see that as your problem

 

[Nod]

Like what I said Pete, loads of people are now actually trading on eBay while pretending to be private individuals (have a look at the queues of people in some Post Offices with bags of packages!) - it's those that the taxman will be after, not John Doe knocking out the crap he got for christmas!

TBH, I wouldn't be surprised if they started looking at the sales type sites, especially at accounts with a reasonable turnover! I suppose that if one were to be regarded as a trader, one's equipment could be set against any earnings for tax purposes.

 

[wyx087]

WRT tax, surely making 20p a year from this won't need to be declared? the time to fill out paperwork alone will cost more than the what I've earned.

Fine art america is better than 500px for selling photos on as a hobbyist. 500px doesn't have enough flexibility for sales to be anything other than complete luck.

interesting alternative, many thanks!

I am also interested in this as i have been looking too, the obe i have been looking most closely at is PhotoBox/PhotoBoxGallery as that is free to use

No idea on what the success rate is on there though

I have used PhotoBox for prints. they seem okay. the web interface for upload puts me off quite a bit.


so now it's 500px, Fine Arts America and PhotoBox. seeing they are free, can't hurt to upload to all?

 

[onomatopoeia]

WRT tax, surely making 20p a year from this won't need to be declared? the time to fill out paperwork alone will cost more than the what I've earned.

Yes, it will. You are creating stuff and selling it, so you are conducting a business and earning money on which no tax has been paid. You need to tell HMRC within three months, declare your income and expenditure and pay the appropriate taxes.

See also the one million topics about wedding photographers that only work at weekends ...

 

[steveo_mcg]

At what point then can one claim write off's for gear and travel then?

 

[Phil V]

Yes, it will. You are creating stuff and selling it, so you are conducting a business and earning money on which no tax has been paid. You need to tell HMRC within three months, declare your income and expenditure and pay the appropriate taxes.

See also the one million topics about wedding photographers that only work at weekends ...

You need to keep records in case they come knocking. You'll not be making any real 'profit', but if you can't prove that then they can assume your profits and bill you accordingly.

So the average professional landscape photographer might make 60k, leaving you with a large tax bill if you can't prove all your earnings and expenditure.

I'm always amused by people who think they can set up a business that's 'not really a business':shrug: if you don't want a business, carry on taking photographs and stop thinking about selling them. It's easy to keep life simple, but you can't pick and choose which bits of 'running a business' you need to be involved in (unless its a big business and you pay someone else to do the bits that don't interest you).

 

[rpsmith79]

Yes, it will. You are creating stuff and selling it, so you are conducting a business and earning money on which no tax has been paid. You need to tell HMRC within three months, declare your income and expenditure and pay the appropriate taxes.

See also the one million topics about wedding photographers that only work at weekends ...

Totally different topic IMO, we are talking about a hobbyist putting a few select photos online to see if anyone want to buy one

We are not talking a guy touting for business and turning over hundreds of pounds in a weekend

I know in a perfect world this should be declared, but are you seriously saying alone selling one or 2 prints a year and making £50 say should send in a tax return, i'm sure the workload alone for the HMRC would run well over that in just processing it

And i'm sure 90% of the population wouldn't even know they had to declare something like this as taxable, and i don't see every Tom Dick and Harry being rounded up by the HMRC for the 10p worth of tax they owe

 

[Phil V]

Totally different topic IMO, we are talking about a hobbyist putting a few select photos online to see if anyone want to buy one

We are not talking a guy touting for business and turning over hundreds of pounds in a weekend

I know in a perfect world this should be declared, but are you seriously saying alone selling one or 2 prints a year and making £50 say should send in a tax return, i'm sure the workload alone for the HMRC would run well over that in just processing it

And i'm sure 90% of the population wouldn't even know they had to declare something like this as taxable, and i don't see every Tom Dick and Harry being rounded up by the HMRC for the 10p worth of tax they owe

The guidance is clear, if you have a hobby that creates a surplus and your mates want to buy your surplus, then it's still a hobby. If you start advertising goods or services, you're running a business.
The OP is looking at a way of making his goods available to the general public, how is that not an online shop?

Why would we assume the sums involved are significantly different? Fine art landscapes sell for a far greater profit margin than I'd make on a single print for a customer. If the OP is planning on selling images for peanuts, that just makes him a poor businessman, in both senses of the word.

People are fine to believe this is optional, but advising people on tax matters when you're not qualified to do so is completely nuts.

 

[Nod]

People have (in the past) been chased over £0.00 unpaid tax bills! Said people have just ignored the bills when they should (to stop the hassle) have sent back the payment slip so the relevant boxes got ticked and the £0.00 was regarded as paid!

Pretty sure the taxman won't be interested in the odd quid or 2 from the occasional print but someone hoping to earn rather more may well (and it could be argued should) be chased up.

 

[justinminns]

Redbubble.com is another place to sell prints but all of these sites require work (preferably in the real world) to generate sales, don't expect to upload and start selling as chances are it won't happen.

 

[Nod]

As Phil rightly says, to get proper, qualified advice, speak to an accountant. Their fees are tax deductable!

 

[Phil V]

As Phil rightly says, to get proper, qualified advice, speak to an accountant. Their fees are tax deductable!

 

[Durbs]

I had a chat with a tax man about a year back - not to do with photography, but my band...
I used to be self-employed, then had regular job & self-employed side-job, then just regular PAYE job, hence talking to them about tax returns etc.
The band I'm in occasionally make money from gigging, airplay & sales, so I asked at what figure I should declare it. The response was (paraphrased):
Technically, you should declare everything, but if it's under £200, it's not really worth it. Especially given we're likely not actually making a profit if you factor in expenses such as travel to gigs, marketing, studio fees etc.

If you sell a couple of photos for £200 total (random figure, pulled out the air), you could claim you'd spent £1000 on the gear to photograph it, and £60 for the fuel to go to the site to take the picture, so you haven't made a taxable profit.

 

[steveo_mcg]

Genuine question because I stay away from Talk Arguments (Business).

Taking this hypothetical hobbyist who sells 2 grands, after printing and framing, worth of high quality landscape photos having just bought his large format camera twos week before, could he then write off his 4k+ plus of camera, film, associated equipment, travel to the west highlands, camping gear etc, against this income? There for generate a net loss?

Edit: damn ninjas!

 

[Nod]

In theory, yes, although he/she may have to prove that the kit is solely used for professional purposes and not for personal use. IIRC, the same applies to music equipment.

 

[Phil V]

Genuine question because I stay away from Talk Arguments (Business).

Taking this hypothetical hobbyist who sells 2 grands, after printing and framing, worth of high quality landscape photos having just bought his large format camera twos week before, could he then write off his 4k+ plus of camera, film, associated equipment, travel to the west highlands, camping gear etc, against this income? There for generate a net loss?

Edit: damn ninjas!

Yes, and if he already has a paye job he could get a rebate, but if he sells another £2k next year he'll have to pay tax, and the year after etc. of course he could wind the business up after year 1 but the taxman would expect to see a sale of the business assets if it was a transfer back to the photographer, it'd still incur tax as an income.

Most of the arguments in talk business are caused when people who don't know about 'business' insist on telling the pros what they're doing wrong.

 

[rpsmith79]

WRT tax, surely making 20p a year from this won't need to be declared? the time to fill out paperwork alone will cost more than the what I've earned.

Why would we assume the sums involved are significantly different?

People are fine to believe this is optional, but advising people on tax matters when you're not qualified to do so is completely nuts.

Erm, from the OP himself :shrug:

And i'm not trying to advise him on tax matters (he appears to have a similar opinion to my own anyway), all i'm saying is sticking a few select photos on Photobox with a small mark up to make some pocket money is a world of difference away from a weekend Wedding tog, all of this is my own opinion and i am away that we never agree on anything like this Phil so i'm not just saying this for arguments sake, but i'm sure there are lots of people who think this was too (like the thousands of traders on eBay)

Personally i'd be more than happy to stick a 100% markup on my prints and sell online, for me i'd be more excited if anyone actually bought one than the money i could make from it (and i know this differs from 99% of the people that frequent the business section) but to some it's not all about the big bucks

 

[steveo_mcg]

Yes, and if he already has a paye job he could get a rebate, but if he sells another £2k next year he'll have to pay tax, and the year after etc. of course he could wind the business up after year 1 but the taxman would expect to see a sale of the business assets if it was a transfer back to the photographer, it'd still incur tax as an income.

Most of the arguments in talk business are caused when people who don't know about 'business' insist on telling the pros what they're doing wrong.

Cheers. Is there a set income threshold where one starts being able to off set their gear, expenses etc.

This is purely hypothetical, I'm far too much of weakling to drag a LF camera round the west highlands!

In theory, yes, although he/she may have to prove that the kit is solely used for professional purposes and not for personal use. IIRC, the same applies to music equipment.

But as a hobbyist how would one separate the personal from the professional use? Would simply offering all the (decent) captures made for sale satisfy that all usage was professional?

 

[big soft moose]

Pretty sure the taxman won't be interested in the odd quid or 2 from the occasional print but someone hoping to earn rather more may well (and it could be argued should) be chased up.

i'm pretty sure they won't as well , but the key is to be upfront , ask them, and keep records - assuming they won't be interested is a really bad idea , as is taking tax advice from those who arent qualified to give it.

in my experience HMRC are really helpful if you play fair by them , they only get the arse if they think you are trying to hide and evade

 

[big soft moose]

But as a hobbyist how would one separate the personal from the professional use? Would simply offering all the (decent) captures made for sale satisfy that all usage was professional?

in reality you can't - but HMRC don't accept 'hobbyist making money' as a clasification , if you are actively selling pictures and making money they see you as a pro.

again take advice on this from someone qualified to give it, but in essence if you use gear for personal and business use you can split the value in proprtion to the use (but keep a time log to back that up if anyone checks)