Hobbyist selling shots?

[Phil V]

Erm, from the OP himself :shrug:

And i'm not trying to advise him on tax matters (he appears to have a similar opinion to my own anyway), all i'm saying is sticking a few select photos on Photobox with a small mark up to make some pocket money is a world of difference away from a weekend Wedding tog, all of this is my own opinion and i am away that we never agree on anything like this Phil so i'm not just saying this for arguments sake, but i'm sure there are lots of people who think this was too (like the thousands of traders on eBay)

Personally i'd be more than happy to stick a 100% markup on my prints and sell online, for me i'd be more excited if anyone actually bought one than the money i could make from it (and i know this differs from 99% of the people that frequent the business section) but to some it's not all about the big bucks

You can be as excited as you like Rich, but when the tax inspector knocks on your door and you don't have a full set of records, expect them to make an assessment based on 'other similar professionals' and if all the other 'similar professionals' that earn £100 per year haven't filed returns, but all the 'similar professionals' selling £100k a year have - guess who you'll be compared to?

And burying your head because you're not the same as other photographers that charge will change nothing.

That's why hobbyists that charge keep away from the business section - they think it's irrelevant. It isn't but they hope if they ignore the facts, they'll go away.

I'll post the relevant link from the HMRC site later. They may tell you not to bother sending returns after a couple of years of a tiny income (you've proved), but if you've got no records, you've got no evidence to support having no tax liability.

 

[big soft moose]

You can be as excited as you like Rich, but when the tax inspector knocks on your door and you don't have a full set of records, expect them to make an assessment based on 'other similar professionals' and if all the other 'similar professionals' that earn £100 per year haven't filed returns, but all the 'similar professionals' selling £100k a year have - guess who you'll be compared to?

And burying your head because you're not the same as other photographers that charge will change nothing.

That's why hobbyists that charge keep away from the business section - they think it's irrelevant. It isn't but they hope if they ignore the facts, they'll go away.

I'll post the relevant link from the HMRC site later. They may tell you not to bother sending returns after a couple of years of a tiny income (you've proved), but if you've got no records, you've got no evidence to support having no tax liability.

my advice is if you seriously think you are only going to litteraly make a 'few quid', why bother ? , if you are a hobbyist and want to stay that way without the faff of business , don't offer any photos for sale - simples

 

[Nod]

Again IIRC, the taxman is one of a select breed who can come a'knocking with a universal key like plod, the Fire Service and the gasman (who suspects a leak) can use.

 

[DemiLion]

Again IIRC, the taxman is one of a select breed who can come a'knocking with a universal key like plod, the Fire Service and the gasman (who suspects a leak) can use.

It's a bit more confused now. VAT inspectors didn't require a warrant, where-as revenue inspectors did (as do the Police unless under fairly specific circumstances). However, with the merger of HM Customs and HM Revenue Service, I'm not sure which powers have been transferred across and which have been lost.

 

[Steve]

Please please please don't rely on tax advice from a photography forum.

Just because lots of people believe something doesn't make it true.

Many accountants offer a free half or one hour consultation. Get proper advice.

I have had several clients come to me when they have been the subject of HMRC investigations. I can assure you that you really really do not want this to happen to you.

Get professional advice specific to your situation...it's relatively easy and fast, and could save you a lot of pain in the future.

 

[Nod]

It's a bit more confused now. VAT inspectors didn't require a warrant, where-as revenue inspectors did (as do the Police unless under fairly specific circumstances). However, with the merger of HM Customs and HM Revenue Service, I'm not sure which powers have been transferred across and which have been lost.

I doubt the taxman knows either! As you say, they might need a warrant now but I know the VAT man didn't. I'll ask next time I see a taxman, although as a desk jockey, he may not know.

 

[Phil V]

I doubt the taxman knows either! As you say, they might need a warrant now but I know the VAT man didn't. I'll ask next time I see a taxman, although as a desk jockey, he may not know.

Tax inspectors, like benefit fraud investigators hold a warrant card (I believe). Anyway it's a fairly moot point, they can assess your income and come up with whatever figure they like if you have no evidence to the contrary.

Why anyone would risk that happening to them is beyond me

My new mantra for these situations will be:
If it's a hobby - keep it that way. If you want to earn some money - don't pretend it's a hobby.

And if you're planning to earn a few quid on the side, without declaring it as income - don't join an internet forum and tell everyone you're doing it - unless you're hoping to get caught

Here's what the taxman says.

 

[big soft moose]

If it's a hobby - keep it that way. If you want to earn some money - don't pretend it's a hobby.

we should have that emblazoned accross the top of talk business in letters of fire

trouble is the majority of the discontent in there comes from people who don't want to take that advice (or similar on insurance, back up, contracts, proffesional behavior etc) throwing their teddies and because its often more comfortable n the short term to bury their head in the sand

 

[fracster]

in my experience HMRC are really helpful if you play fair by them , they only get the arse if they think you are trying to hide and evade

Agree completely.

I`d better go for a lie down.

 

[MadWoman]

I rang HMRC before setting up my (teeny weeny) dog photography business, and found them incredibly helpful - I really couldn't fault them at all. I registered as self-employed on their advice (in addition to PAYE) and completed my first tax return a couple of months ago - I paid 20p tax . The whole process was much simpler than I expected, and I found the advice in Talk Business invaluable - I don't feel professional enough to post there, but read it a lot. I now have a very enjoyable afternoon / weekend business, delighted customers (so far), pocket money to help fund the hobby and HMRC are happy to boot.

In my experience as a hobbyist with a little business, the tax side certainly isn't complicated enough to make it worth the risk of not declaring earnings,

 

[mortimerhill]

Genuine question because I stay away from Talk Arguments (Business).

Taking this hypothetical hobbyist who sells 2 grands, after printing and framing, worth of high quality landscape photos having just bought his large format camera twos week before, could he then write off his 4k+ plus of camera, film, associated equipment, travel to the west highlands, camping gear etc, against this income? There for generate a net loss?

Edit: damn ninjas!

He would have to show the kit was solely used for business ie no personal use. Also would have to prove that the travel expenses were a genuine business expense and not just a holiday.

 

[big soft moose]

and also the tax office wil only wear that for a year, or two at the most - you can'y run at a loss and get va rebate on your paye tax for ever as sooner or later they'll tell you not to submit anymore returns until you are making a profit

 

[Steve]

You cannot use a hobby and pretend it is a trade to produce a trading loss to offset it against other income.

This would be considered a contrived loss and is clear tax evasion.

Please be careful, and get professional advice.