Have I been lucky (Car mechanical talk)

Galaxy66

Galaxy66

Jeremy Beadle
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Just nearing home after a trip out today and I hear a noise from the engine, more like a flapping non metallic noise, at the same time I could smell something burning and coasted home with just enough momentum to reach my drive.
I upped the bonnet and guessed the burning smell was coming from the timing belt area, I just had this replaced by the Honda dealers at 70,000 miles now 72,000.
We needed to go out again this afternoon so the car had to be moved from where it was to get Mrs G's car. I took a chance and started it up to move it and immediately could hear this rattling flapping noise from the timing belt area and also the smell was there.
So have I been extremely lucky in getting the car home and not having the belt snap?
Am I right in thinking it is the belt, maybe it will be all frayed about to snap, I don't know all that much about cars.
I will be arranging with the garage to collect it

The car is a 1.6 2001 sohc Honda Civic Aerodeck (estate).

Any opinions from the car mechanic brethren on this forum?

Have to go out now so will not read any replies till later, thanks in advance.
 
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Not the alternator belt? Have you checked the timing and other belts for visible damage?
 
If your timing belt was replaced at 70.000 and youve only done 2000 miles on it youve been ripped off. Probably the fanbelt or the belt for the power steering (if that model has one) Just make sure it's not the timing belt been installed incorrectly and not flapping about or your in deep dodo if it breaks. Running it with out the fanbelt can cause the engine to overheat and seize up.
 
Obvious checks as mentioned are fan/multifunction belts and PAS belt if it has one. If its timing belt, then it should be covered by warranty bythe garage that did the work. For the record, any belt that has to be removed during a timing belt replacement, WE would replace with new [fan/PAS belts in the case of renaults] but that will depend on engine layout.
 
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i would get the AA or RAc out, failing that, ge tthe garage that replaced it on the phone and tell them something is wrong, they may come out to see it
 
First thing to do is park the car up, then call the dealer and let them take over.

Re the previous comment re. Being ripped off, you don't know that !

This problem could be caused by the failure of an idler or tensioner that has not been replaced as part of a routine cam belt changed.
 
If its the timing belt flapping about after 2000 miles in my book he's been ripped off. Either the job has not been done or shoddy workmanship or dodgy parts. Idlers and tensioners should be replaced as part of the job and the customer advised why. If not and the customer tried to save a few quid by not having them done then sorry but I have no sympathy.

It's like replacing a clutch plate without renewing a pressure plate ir thrust bearing , false economy.
 
frank said:
If its the timing belt flapping about after 2000 miles in my book he's been ripped off. Either the job has not been done or shoddy workmanship or dodgy parts. Idlers and tensioners should be replaced as part of the job and the customer advised why. If not and the customer tried to save a few quid by not having them done then sorry but I have no sympathy.

It's like replacing a clutch plate without renewing a pressure plate ir thrust bearing , false economy.
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First point, you dont know what has failed, second point, how can the garage that fitted be responsible for failed parts? Thats why these jobs usually come with a labour and PARTS warranty - they cannot control manufacturing faults.

Galaxy, as suggested, park the car and take it from there. FWIW, in many years in the motor trade I have never know a timing belt to fray enough to flap without breaking almost immediately - the fact that car has made it home, and been started again means that so far it hasn't completely snapped. Not saying it can't happen, presumably it can, but the tension and force they are under usually results in a straight forward snap, even if they have been incorrectly fitted. You need to get it looked at on your drive before attmepting to drive it anywhere is the bottom line. Whether thats bu AA/RAC or someone with mechanical knowledge, or by the garage that did the timing belt job is basically down to yourself. Whatever way you choose, good luck with gettin git sorted quickly and efficiently. :thumbs:
 
If there`s any concern at all that it`s the belt or tensioners, DO NOT RUN/START the car until it`s checked properly.

If it breaks, there`s serious damage possible. I know it wouldn`t be down to you, but please don`t risk it.
 
Thanks for the advice,
Steep,
I have checked and all other belts are ok.

Frank,
It was not done at some ripoff backstreet garage, it was done by a major dealership that has serviced my Honda's for the past 15 years, I have got to know the mechanics and the service manager well in that time, I trust them 100% which is why I continue to have a 7 year old car serviced by them.

Matty,
I am not a member of any breakdown service.

Brian,
It could be an idler or tensioner as it sounded as if something was loose in that area, but would I be so lucky that the belt did not jump if it were slack? Would that cause a burning smell?.

Frank,
False economy is not part of my lifestyle.

LL
I am going to contact the service manager in the morning and see whether they will arrange collection or whether I can get it there myself, I have contacts with 4x4's and plant trailers, I might not trust some breakdown recovery operator getting my pride and joy there without damaging it.
After moving the the car it is in a position to be easily winched on to a trailer.

Minky Monkey.

I did take a risk restarting it to move but it was the only way to get at the other car because I had to go out again today, it will not be restarted.

Just to add, on Friday a fault code had set my engine management indicator light on, I was not all that bothered as it has come on before and was the oxy sensors which can be temperamental. I had already arranged with the service to have it checked out tomorrow, FOC of course. The warning indicator went off yesterday.

At the end of the day it will be repaired whether by warranty if it is the timing belt, or at any cost to me if it is something else, despite it being 7 years old and 72000 miles it is in mint condition.

Thanks again for the advice, promise to keep you informed of the outcome:thumbs:
 
I`ve had Honda`s for about fifteen years years, they`re excellently reliable cars generally I`ve currently got a civic hybrid. The only problem I had was with an Accord that set fire! And even that I don`t think was a fault with the car as such, I`d had it valeted and they`d sprayed polish around the switchgear and that`s what ignited!

I agree, it`d definitely be worth keeping.

I wouldn`t worry about the skill of most recovery operators, I`ve been one for 18 years. Most are very proffesional, just be wary of very cheap tows. There`s a good reason for being that cheap! Honda`s have probably got someone they`d recommend anyway.

I had something very similar to your`s on a 2001 VW recovery transporter. Everything was fine, I switched of the lorry to get diesel. When I got back in and started it up there was a horrible noise so I switched it off and lifted the bonnet, spun it over and there was a horrible burning smell coming from the timing belt cover. Jumped into the truck and turned it off. Had it recovered - not letting the guy start the truck - and towed it to the garage.

When they took the cover off, a tensioner had given way and the belt was virtually broken. They did say if I`d started it to get it onto the tow truck, it would`ve broken. It was out of warranty and the repair bill would have been close to 2k.

Very lucky!
 
minky_monkey said:
I`ve had Honda`s for about fifteen years years, they`re excellently reliable cars generally I`ve currently got a civic hybrid. The only problem I had was with an Accord that set fire! And even that I don`t think was a fault with the car as such, I`d had it valeted and they`d sprayed polish around the switchgear and that`s what ignited!

I agree, it`d definitely be worth keeping.

I wouldn`t worry about the skill of most recovery operators, I`ve been one for 18 years. Most are very proffesional, just be wary of very cheap tows. There`s a good reason for being that cheap! Honda`s have probably got someone they`d recommend anyway.

I had something very similar to your`s on a 2001 VW recovery transporter. Everything was fine, I switched of the lorry to get diesel. When I got back in and started it up there was a horrible noise so I switched it off and lifted the bonnet, spun it over and there was a horrible burning smell coming from the timing belt cover. Jumped into the truck and turned it off. Had it recovered - not letting the guy start the truck - and towed it to the garage.

When they took the cover off, a tensioner had given way and the belt was virtually broken. They did say if I`d started it to get it onto the tow truck, it would`ve broken. It was out of warranty and the repair bill would have been close to 2k.

Very lucky!
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Beginning to think after reading this it could very well be the belt/tensioner/idler and very fortunate it happened only 500 mtrs from the house. In fact I had to coast down a hill first hoping to gain enough momentum to take it up a hill to get there.
 
whatever you do don't start it up again, if you want cheap breakdown recovery autoaid offer the same level of cover as the top level AA/RAC (excluding hotels and european cover)for £36 a year, the difference is it's a pay and claim service, if you break down they send a local garage out, if they can't fix it they take you wherever you want to go, you pay them by credit card then claim it back

http://www.autoaidbreakdown.co.uk/
 
wack61 said:
whatever you do don't start it up again, if you want cheap breakdown recovery autoaid offer the same level of cover as the top level AA/RAC (excluding hotels and european cover)for £36 a year, the difference is it's a pay and claim service, if you break down they send a local garage out, if they can't fix it they take you wherever you want to go, you pay them by credit card then claim it back

http://www.autoaidbreakdown.co.uk/
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I like this bit,

[Recovery of the vehicle and its passengers
If the vehicle cannot be repaired at the scene of the breakdown, we will arrange and reimburse any reasonable cost of taking the vehicle, you and up to 5 passengers from the place where the vehicle has broken down to anyone place you choose.]

So if I am anywhere in the country they will transport my car to my favourite Honda Dealers:) unless it is extra for that?.

Worth looking into this, thanks.
 
Galaxy66 said:
I like this bit,

[Recovery of the vehicle and its passengers
If the vehicle cannot be repaired at the scene of the breakdown, we will arrange and reimburse any reasonable cost of taking the vehicle, you and up to 5 passengers from the place where the vehicle has broken down to anyone place you choose.]

So if I am anywhere in the country they will transport my car to my favourite Honda Dealers:) unless it is extra for that?.

Worth looking into this, thanks.
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Yes, that's exactly how it works, it's just like the AA but you're not paying £150 for a service you might not use, someone on another forum got towed back to London from Scotland, the bill was over £500 but a week later he got a cheque in the post, I've claimed twice both times it was more than the £36 but I had no problem getting my money back.

It was owned by Equity Red Star last time I looked into it so not a fly by night company, there are certain rules, like you have to be married for your spouse to be covered but if you're Mr average like me you won't fall outside of these rules
 
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We do work for Equity, they`re a great company. They also run Autonational Rescue, basically it`s a prepaid scheme like the AA/RAC. I`ve just joined two cars with them and it came to 80 odd quid. That included recovery. They`re an excellent company, especially when it comes to odd recoveries involving "specialist" equipment. Normally most firms make the members pay the extra costs, Equity don`t.

The other thing to watch these days, is that the AA won`t come out to you if you`re involved in an accident. They`ll send someone out, but they also send you a bill for the job and expect you to claim it back off of your insurance.
 
wack61 said:
the bill was over £500 but a week later he got a cheque in the post, I've claimed twice both times it was more than the £36 but I had no problem getting my money back.
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So you have to pay out and then claim your money back? :eek:

I'm with the AA (keep changing between the AA and the RAC each year, whoever has the best deal).

wack61 said:
it's just like the AA but you're not paying £150 for a service you might not use
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£150? We pay just over £100, and that covers anything either of us drive.

I see http://www.autoaidbreakdown.co.uk/ have a nice little let out clause:

You must keep your vehicle properly maintained and serviced
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...so if you don't have service history on your car, they might not pay out (but you have already paid out the money anyway).

No thanks, I'll stick with the AA/RAC and not pay out anything.
 
Car has now been collected by the garage on a flatbed trailer no problems.
 
Update, the good/bad news is the timing belt is ok, the bad news is the compressor for my aircon is knackered. They gave me 4 options,
1. Fit new compressor.
Cost prohibitive !!.

2. Do without the air conditioning.
I can't do without it.

3.Part exchange it, with full value and no reduction for the lack of air con.
Never, it is too good a car to get rid of.

4. Obtain one from a breakers yard and they will fit it.

Decision, they will leave the aircon compressor belt off and I will go for option 4.
 
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Did the same with the back axle for my renault van when the garage couldn't get the old broken torsion bar off. I think it was about £200 delivered for a complete axle assembly (inc 4 torsion bars, brakes etc.)
 
there are other outlets for a/c compressors apart from dealers.

I'll have a wee look in my contacts a bit later and see if I can find someone who can help.

While breakers are an option, you're never really sure of the internal condition of the components.

My guess is the bearing in the electro magnetic cutch has failed ........... In most cases that's replacable as a seperate item. An A/C specialist will advise.
 
LadyLens said:
;) So you weren't ripped off then.

As df says, be very careful if buying from a breakers and maybe let an aircon specialist advise, but glad you got to the bottom of the problem :thumbs:
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Cheers DF & LL think I will heed that advice and seek out an aircon specialist localy.
More money spent on an 8 year old car that is worth only £1600 book price might seem crazy to some, but to me it is worth much more than that as I have had it since new and know it inside out, and is worth spending the odd few hundred to keep it going rather than spend nearly £20,000 on the new Mazda 6 estate which is what I was considering not long ago.
Tow in was £60 plus there will be a labour charge for today's work.
 
If you're driving an 8 year old car you really should join a breakdown organisation, if you break down on a motorway the tow off will be extortionate, the police will organise it but they won't care what it costs as their only concern is road safety.

Like clampers breakdown companies can charge what they like, the autoaid link I gave you is worth joining, even if you only go for the basic AA cover at least they'll get you to a garage and out of danger.
 
A quick dig about suggests that you're talking about £3-400 for a new pump (non-oem) plus fitting.....
 
Galaxy66 said:
Cheers DF & LL think I will heed that advice and seek out an aircon specialist localy.
More money spent on an 8 year old car that is worth only £1600 book price might seem crazy to some, but to me it is worth much more than that as I have had it since new and know it inside out, and is worth spending the odd few hundred to keep it going rather than spend nearly £20,000 on the new Mazda 6 estate which is what I was considering not long ago.
Tow in was £60 plus there will be a labour charge for today's work.
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UNderstood mate. We have plenty of customers that will pay more to keep their car mechanically reliable than it can ever be worth. Most of them live on narrow residential streets in London and have umpteen grazes and door mirrors held on with gaffer tape, etc, but they are mechanically good. Their very valid argument is that there is little point them spending upwards of 11K for a new car when all that will happen is some t****r will take the side out of it within a month whilst its parked outside their own home, usually not bothering to stop and find the owner. :bonk:
 
Think of all the lenses you can buy if you don't "waste" money on a new car :thinking:

That's my excuse logic anyway :lol:
 
You don't have to spend 11k to get a decent car, it just takes some searching, I just bought a 55 plate Subaru Legacy 78k on the clock with full subaru history, all motorway miles which are the best kind as everything gets to operating temperature, lots of short stop starts are what kills cars.

£3,600, all my neighbours think i've spent 10k on it as it was 20k 3 years ago
 
wack61 said:
You don't have to spend 11k to get a decent car, it just takes some searching, I just bought a 55 plate Subaru Legacy 78k on the clock with full subaru history, all motorway miles which are the best kind as everything gets to operating temperature, lots of short stop starts are what kills cars.

£3,600, all my neighbours think i've spent 10k on it as it was 20k 3 years ago
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Uch, that's hardly run in at 78k ;)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
A quick dig about suggests that you're talking about £3-400 for a new pump (non-oem) plus fitting.....
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Where did you dig this up from I have been in touch with a few local companies and they say they would have to fit an OEM part.
 
I did a Google and came up with this ebay shop. They didn't actually have the exact model listed, but they had quite a few Honda ones (incl. an Aerodeck) from around the same age and that was a rough guide of the prices quoted.

Probably worth contacting them and seeing if the have te exact one for your car in stock
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I did a Google and came up with this ebay shop. They didn't actually have the exact model listed, but they had quite a few Honda ones (incl. an Aerodeck) from around the same age and that was a rough guide of the prices quoted.

Probably worth contacting them and seeing if the have te exact one for your car in stock
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Looks promising, checked the list and it does have my particular model there :thumbs:
Just sent them a question asking if they are new/reconditioned/or just tested, unless I missed it in the description.


I am not rushing into it.
 
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Galaxy66 said:
Looks promising, checked the list and it does have my particular model there :thumbs:
Just sent them a question asking if they are new/reconditioned/or just tested, unless I missed it in the description.


I am not rushing into it.
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Jolly good :)

Worth searching about - we were quoted £300 locally (trade,supply only) for a replacement cat to fit a Vauxhall Meriva, but got one delivered from a web seller down south for well under £200 :)
 
frank said:
Running it with out the fanbelt can cause the engine to overheat and seize up.
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They don`t have fanbelts, the fan is electrically controlled.
 
Unless you have an electric waterpump...........:)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Most people still call it a fanbelt, although technically it is a water pump drive belt :)
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Most water pumps are driven by the timing belt. The one that drives the Alternator/Powersteering/Aircon is an Auxiliary Drive Belt....
 
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