had my collar felt for the first time by a security gaurd today (happy ending)

[Steve]

The very worst case scenario is that you are going to get a slap, and you can always give one back.

Brilliant.

 

[Bassit]

For the record here - I spend a lot of time at the moment on MOD property. I'd like to see some of the internet hero's on here telling a Warrant Officer their "rights" if they were rocking around happy snapping.

Just in case anyone reading this isn't aware, the "rights" only apply on public property not private land.

 

[Steve]

Just in case anyone reading this isn't aware, the "rights" only apply on public property not private land.

Exactly... hopefully no-one would be stupid enough to go photographing on MoD property.

 

[gramps]

hopefully no-one would be stupid enough to go photographing on MoD property.

Oh I don't know ... they can be very accommodating if approached in a friendly way

 

[supersammy]

Exactly... hopefully no-one would be stupid enough to go photographing on MoD property.

Ask nicely and you will be surprised what they will let you do. They will tell you what's off limits and might even ask for a copy of a photo which they like. Gob off and demand and you are likely to be publicly humiliated.

Moral of the story - don't be one of the "itz my rightz innit" brigade, be civil and realise that the person asking probably doesn't have a chip on his/her shoulder, they have just been taught to challenge anything which is remotely questionable.

 

[Steve]

Oh I don't know ... they can be very accommodating if approached in a friendly way

Now be honest gramps....we all know you crawled under the barbed wire fence in camous to get this

 

[Steve]

Ask nicely and you will be surprised what they will let you do. They will tell you what's off limits and might even ask for a copy of a photo which they like. Gob off and demand and you are likely to be publicly humiliated.

Moral of the story - don't be one of the "itz my rightz innit" brigade, be civil and realise that the person asking probably doesn't have a chip on his/her shoulder, they have just been taught to challenge anything which is remotely questionable.

I should have added 'without permission' to my sentence.

So... hopefully no-one would be stupid enough to go photographing on MoD property without permission.

 

[gramps]

Barbed wire holds no fear for me Steve ... but crawling

 

[London Headshots]

I can't believe that people have been arguing about this for three pages now :0.

It's simple, if someone is civil with you then humor them, and be polite back. If someone want's to make an issue and act obnoxiously either do the same or tell them to f-off. The very worst case scenario is that you are going to get a slap, and you can always give one back.

For the record here - I spend a lot of time at the moment on MOD property. I'd like to see some of the internet hero's on here telling a Warrant Officer their "rights" if they were rocking around happy snapping.

Listen to Chuck Norris. I love that you talk about 'internet heroes' at the same time as inferring that you're willing to have a fist fight over someone questioning you whilst out shooting.

 

[supersammy]

Listen to Chuck Norris. I love that you talk about 'internet heroes' at the same time as inferring that you're willing to have a fist fight over someone questioning you whilst out shooting.

I said that the worst case scenario is you getting a slap, and you could always give one back. It was tongue in cheek, but my bruised face and lack of use my left hand after a few too many beers last night indicates that is someone upset me enough or threatened to take my property which I work for and pay for I'd be happy to go. My point was, that you should just be pleasant until you can't be and then do what you think it correct.

 

[London Headshots]

I said that the worst case scenario is you getting a slap, and you could always give one back. It was tongue in cheek, but my bruised face and lack of use my left hand after a few too many beers last night indicates that is someone upset me enough or threatened to take my property which I work for and pay for I'd be happy to go. My point was, that you should just be pleasant until you can't be and then do what you think it correct.

No, your bruised face and lack of use of your left hand after "a few too many beers" indicates that you're an uneducated mindless thug who can't punch properly. Nobody is threatening to take your property, this isn't a Franz Kafka novel, it's a thread about a pleasant experience someone had with a security guard.

Good God, this forum is like some tacky working men's club sometimes.

 

[supersammy]

No, your bruised face and lack of use of your left hand after "a few too many beers" indicates that you're an uneducated mindless thug who can't punch properly. Nobody is threatening to take your property, this isn't a Franz Kafka novel, it's a thread about a pleasant experience someone had with a security guard.

Good God, this forum is like some tacky working men's club sometimes.

OK this is going off topic. And I don't want to be a part of that. All I will add is that your photo's are brilliant, and I'd rather talk about them than other nonsense.

 

[st599]

This is the difficult part for me... whereas personally I would probably co-operate to a high level, rights are there for a reason.

Why should I have to assert my rights? They are rights....they should be automatic and available without question. Why should asserting them cause suspicion and escalation?

Which rights specifically? You have no right to privacy in public, no right to free speech...

 

[scottishguy]

Early last year I was doing light trails on a bridge above the M8, saw a police go underneath the bridge I was, about 10 minutes later, the same police car pulled up beside and the officer asked me what I was doing, I said "erm taking photo's", both laughed and said "stupid question really", asked to see what I'd taken and gladly showed them a few pics, one officer said he had bought his son the same camera for xmas, but couldnt understand how I managed to have "long streaky lights" (his words) in a photograph. told them how I done it, but he had no idea what I was on about lol.
Just before they left, one of them did say he was impressed that I had a high viz vest on.
Authority isnt always a bad thing.

 

[foto-paul]

Early last year I was doing light trails on a bridge above the M8, saw a police go underneath the bridge I was, about 10 minutes later, the same police car pulled up beside and the officer asked me what I was doing, I said "erm taking photo's", both laughed and said "stupid question really", asked to see what I'd taken and gladly showed them a few pics, one officer said he had bought his son the same camera for xmas, but couldnt understand how I managed to have "long streaky lights" (his words) in a photograph. told them how I done it, but he had no idea what I was on about lol.
Just before they left, one of them did say he was impressed that I had a high viz vest on.
Authority isnt always a bad thing.

There we go being civil and polite works every time it's not difficult,

 

[scottishguy]

There we go being civil and polite works every time it's not difficult,

So true Paul, my last job was driving about the UK climbing phone masts and taking 360 degrees panoramics, some places there where schools near by and a teacher always came out and asked what I was taking picture's of. Always showed them and never had any problem's.

Being polite and having manners cost nothing, its always nice to be nice!

 

[DemiLion]

I said that the worst case scenario is you getting a slap, and you could always give one back. It was tongue in cheek, but my bruised face and lack of use my left hand after a few too many beers last night indicates that is someone upset me enough or threatened to take my property which I work for and pay for I'd be happy to go. My point was, that you should just be pleasant until you can't be and then do what you think it correct.

With any luck you'll get nicked next time you hit someone when plastered.

 

[Bassit]

There we go being civil and polite works every time it's not difficult,

It never is when someone is civil and polite to you, its when someone isn't civil and polite to you, that's when it becomes challenging.

Have a read of some of the comments in this thread if you don't get what i mean.

 

[foto-paul]

It never is when someone is civil and polite to you, its when someone isn't civil and polite to you, that's when it becomes challenging.

Have a read of some of the comments in this thread if you don't get what i mean.

I totally agree with you and I think that 99% of the time most people are civil and polite it's just unfortunate that there will always be one. But life is to short to worry about them.

 

[Steve]

Which rights specifically? You have no right to privacy in public, no right to free speech...

Well specifically in relation to this thread, the right to go about my lawlful business without discrimination.

Privacy in public and free speech are irrelevant in relation to this thread.

Although the only time I hear people claim we have no right to free speech, they usually turn out to be extreme left angy they cant demonstrate anywhere and everywhere, or the extreme right angry they can't make racist comments.

 

[DemiLion]

Which rights specifically? You have no right to privacy in public, no right to free speech...

What? Apart from Article 10 of the HRA you mean?

 

[HMansfield]

There seems to be much of an attitude in this thread that you're either compliant and polite, or non-compliant and inpolite.

It's perfectly possible to be both non-compliant and polite. If a security guard is being a dick with you, you can decline to co-operate without getting aggressive and stand-offish about it. Rather than argue, just smile and walk away.

 

[Steve]

There seems to be much of an attitude in this thread that you're either compliant and polite, or non-compliant and inpolite.

Sorry, I don't really agree with that.

It is possible and easy to assert your rights while remaining polite. There is no reason at all to get stroppy while asserting your rights. Smiling, not raising your voice, not being sarcastic or antagonistic, and calmly stating your rights would be the way to go.

I can't see anyone on this thread who advocates asserting your rights saying anything to the contrary.

Why is there an assumption that by asserting your rights, you are being stroppy and impolite?

 

[Bassit]

Sorry, I don't really agree with that.

It is possible and easy to assert your rights while remaining polite. There is no reason at all to get stroppy while asserting your rights. Smiling, not raising your voice, not being sarcastic or antagonistic, and calmly stating your rights would be the way to go.

I can't see anyone on this thread who advocates asserting your rights saying anything to the contrary.

Why is there an assumption that by asserting your rights, you are being stroppy and impolite?

Agreed , I have found its usually the people that feel it is wrong to assert your rights in any way, shape or form are the ones that are usually antagonistic and sarcastic. :shrug:

There is also another option, smile, don't respond and carry on with what you was doing.

 

[ernesto]

The fact that some people feel the need to take such an aggressive stance for their photographic rights in the UK is all the evidence we need that the UK is a pretty good place to live when it comes to rights as these really are 'first world' rights...

 

[jj_glos]

There seems to be much of an attitude in this thread that you're either compliant and polite, or non-compliant and inpolite.

It's perfectly possible to be both non-compliant and polite. If a security guard is being a dick with you, you can decline to co-operate without getting aggressive and stand-offish about it. Rather than argue, just smile and walk away.

Since when does asking a question qualify as "being a dick"? Total lack of perspective as usual in this thread. The OP acted in a sensible manner yet now is the harbinger of a dystopian society leading to the end of man kind.

 

[HMansfield]

I wasn't specifically referring to the original post. There are - however - many cases where private security guards behave in ways that qualify as "being a dick".

 

[Bassit]

Whilst taking some pics in my local town centre today, i was approached by the town warden and told i had been spotted on the towns cctv and asked what i was doing, to which i replied taking some photos, he replied ok and left, no drama, no smiles, no angry faces or :boxer:, just a quick and easy reply, hardly worthy of a mention but hey ho, while we are here..:shrug:

But it does go to show how much we (as photographers) are distrusted in this overly paranoid and cynical world we live in today.
I also saw the irony in being spotted on camera and being asked why i had a camera.

 

[Steve Smith]

was approached by the town warden and told i had been spotted on the towns cctv and asked what i was doing, to which i replied taking some photos, he replied ok and left

He probably knew that before he asked you!

Steve.

 

[jj_glos]

I wasn't specifically referring to the original post. There are - however - many cases where private security guards behave in ways that qualify as "being a dick".

Just as there are many cases of a photographer behaving in a way that qualifies as "being a dick".

As the photographer you know that you are taking photographs for a certain purpose in an area that you have a right to do so. By the mere fact that someone is asking you a question about what you are doing, they obviously do not know what your intentions are. You can answer politely by actually explaining what you are doing, or you can choose not to answer at all. Not answering will only provoke a response and will escalate the situation in most cases. It's up to the individual how you handle it.

 

[Laudrup]

Why would not answering need to provoke a response? Why would it need escalated? If they were trained properly they'd be on their way and leave the person in peace.

 

[foto-paul]

Why would you not answer a simple question? By not doing something so simple you just come across as a 'dick photographer' and instantly put people's backs up !!!

 

[Bassit]

He probably knew that before he asked you!

Steve.

I realise that, the guy was just doing his job and probably had to ask the question and the simple reply he got was good enough for him.

My point is that a simple answer is really (& should always be) enough of a reply to satisfy the person doing there job, if they are a reasonable person and don't think they have authority over you, which is the reason some people (usually some idiot security guard :nuts:) get all uppity about a simple reply.

I am very protective about my rights as a human being :rules:, but unlike some of the earlier suggestions, answered the simple and politely asked question in an easy and polite manner, with the outcome of no drama from either side.

 

[Phil V]

Why would not answering need to provoke a response? Why would it need escalated? If they were trained properly they'd be on their way and leave the person in peace.

So the 'correct response' for a trained security guard is:

Sees something that appears to be suspicious behaviour

Approaches individual to clarify situation

Individual ignores security guard and walks off.

Security guard happy that the situation is resolved and gets on with his day!

He wouldn't be expected to follow up a situation where a 'suspicious' subject absconds?

 

[jj_glos]

Why would not answering need to provoke a response? Why would it need escalated? If they were trained properly they'd be on their way and leave the person in peace.

This is just as foolish as your other posts in this thread. You refuse to see the issue from both parties in order to see the whole picture.

 

[Steve]

So are we saying anyone taking photographs is automatically deemed to be acting suspiciously?

 

[Phil V]

So are we saying anyone taking photographs is automatically deemed to be acting suspiciously?

No:

We're saying that if someone taking photo's is deemed to be acting suspiciously then the normal guidelines of human contact ought to be observed.

Even if you believe that someone asking you a question is being a ****, that's not even a reason to behave like a **** too. Whatever happened to being polite, and doing unto others etc.

 

[foto-paul]

No:

We're saying that if someone taking photo's is deemed to be acting suspiciously then the normal guidelines of human contact ought to be observed.

Even if you believe that someone asking you a question is being a ****, that's not even a reason to behave like a **** too. Whatever happened to being polite, and doing unto others etc.

Absolutely why can't everyone see this !!!

Also part being a successful photographer is people skills, no mater what you shoot if your friendly and polite it gets you into places Jo public has no access to

 

[Steve]

I'm not advocating being rude and totally agree that the sensible option is to be polite and even if the person questioning is behaving unreasonably, I would like to think I would rise above that and continue to be poilte and helpful.

I'm just not sure why security guards and wardens seem to automatically treat photographers as behaving suspiciusly just for taking photos.

 

[Bassit]

Absolutely why can't everyone see this !!!

I think its you that cant see the other side of this tbh, if you are doing nothing other than taking some photographs then why should it be viewed as being suspicious in the first place, the person being questioned doesn't have to answer any questions, obviously it would be in that persons interest to answer a simple question, but the point is they don't have to if they don't want to, these are just some of our fundamental rights as human beings and you should respect everyone's view, by not doing so is the start to undoing these fundamental rights.