GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!! (Rant warning)

great shot. :thumbs:

i wish i had some decent pics of me back in my sporting days :shrug:

a quality shot like that should be worth a few quid of anybodys money :clap:
maybe offer the guy asking for the freebie some advice about the best place to stand with his point & shoot when he tries to do it for himself :lol:
 
EOS_JD said:
That's not quite true. A little more complicated and not quite as black and white.
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POAH said:
not quite - he can supply the image for editoral use but for any sort of advertisment/promotion he needs a model release.
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Sorry but wrong, wrong and wrong.

He does not need a model release. UK law does not dictate this anywhere, and if you can point me to it, I shall stand corrected.

If of course, he was to use the image commercially, without previously laying down the terms, then the person in the image may of course deem the usage to be defamatory, falsely endorsing a product/service etc, in which case he would be facing a lawsuit and a big bill.

...and so, model releases are preferential. The fact most advertising companies and the like wouldn't touch an image without a model release does not make needing one law, or even required.. that is just proof of them covering their own backs as the publishers. Which is common sense.

If you didn't have a model release, you wouldn't be selling your work to them (which is counter productive in ones career) but to say he needs one outright is misguiding.

Perhaps they should just be law ;)

I occasionally shoot for an events company, who use 'real' photographs as their examples, and so could be deemed to being used commercially (displayed to aid financial gain) but as far as I know, there were no model releases signed. Is that wrong? Is it likely to lead to being sued? Would it even be realistically possible to chase down the individual in the picture?
 
Cracking shot - I did not read ALL of the posts but I have to say some of the ones I did read were very funny and offered advice that would make you look quite childish. My customers ask me for massive discounts that are completely impossible all the time! Dealing with that is just part of salesmanship. You should qualify this guy in or out as a sales target by asking him some pretty simple questions.

He's just trying it on for gods sake. Grin and explain that you don't do freebies. If he asks why then just tell him why - whatever your reason is. For me it might be something along the lines of the fact that you have invested thousands in your pass-time and the skills you have developed allow you to recoup a tiny part of that through this kind of photographic sale. Keep a straight face and be polite. He hasn't just chatted up your wife or called your mum names! :) He's just tried it on.

Just my opinion.

Dub
 
hmm im not sure what i would do. He is the manager so is he doing you a favour by letting you do the photos? If you start making money from other parents buying pics then maybe giving him a freebie isnt too bad (as you may end up making a fair bit from this), but if he just wants a free pic for nothing then i would ask him what for? If he wants to stick it on a website then you can ask for a credit and maybe give him a few freebies in exchange for advertising your service. I wouldnt just give stuff away for free, you are worth more than that. If he really wants the photo then he will pay for it anyway.
 
RicherSea said:
This is certainly very common at all the events we go to, people ask all the time for free prints. Recently someone want to take some of our samples for free, as they recognised someone in the photos from a previous event!

My take is always that I'll give event organisers some website sized JPGs for advertising in return for booking us to attend an event. These are generally photos that other people have ordered and that would be processed anyway.

I'd never give someone a free print just because they ask for it unless the circumstances were exceptional. It sets a precedent that is difficult to negotiate out of. It also give the impression that the print itself is easy and very cheap to produce, which may or may not be true, but that's what people assume if you give stuff away. All that does is further de-value photography in their eyes, which doesn't help future sales.

Unless you absolutely need this person for you continued business survival I'd send him a polite message along the lines of

"Although I can supply small electronic images for free, the costs associated with editing, preparing for print, printing, checking, packaging and posting a physical print mean that supplying paper products for free is not possible. A smaller size does not materially reduce these costs, and distributing free prints too all my event clients would reduce my profit to unsustainable levels."

I'd attach an electronic copy, the same size and quality as the ones you provide the club for we advertising, including any watermark if you mark the others.

That way you have done something for him, and if and when anyone asks why he only has the small low quality image he'll have to say because he didn't want to pay £7 for it...

Excellent shot by the way:thumbs:
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Great shot, I think Andy has offered the best advice, and this is what I would do.
 
I love the Rugby shot:thumbs: Definitely worth something. Occasionally I take pictures at the marina where I keep my boat. I have given a few away, sold a couple from an assignment.

. . . this one:
LadupmastrwDSC_0046.jpg


Nothing special, I was testing out a new camera and the lad was having a great time being winched up the mast of his dads boat in a bosons chair for the first time . . . not sure who was having the most fun, dad doing the winching, or son protesting, "its to high"!!!! :lol:

I gave them a 7x5 the next week, mum was most appreciative . . . it was a freebie, dad tried to 'push' money in my hand . . . on another occasion, I was presented with a bottle of Champagne for a photo I had don a few weeks previous, of a boat owners 'sea dog';) liver labradors are a pig to do, no contrast . . .

There are some good folk out there . . . I wonder if your 'rugby father' might take the 'thank you very much' approach?

I'm a pure amateur at the photography lark, as you can see:lol:

CJS
 
Arkady said:
I'd charge him more like £70, but there you go...
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Thank Christ someone pointed that out. You are way way way under selling yourself. You are more than likely only going to make one sale from this photograph. You need to price it on that basis. You would need to sell 15 - 20 of this same photograph to make a half decent return on your current price. The likelihood of that happening is slim to none. Even if you sold 15 different photographs at 7GBP a pop to each one of the players your only making 105GBP.
 
I can not believe the rubbish I'm reading. If you want money you guys then act like a professional.

We shoot lots of sports teams and shoot clubs in traditional grp shots. These clubs have upto 12 teams of various ages.

We give the club/coach a free framed shot. The potential of each club shoot is £2k.

You are missing the whole picture here. Then from that you get other clubs and the tournaments that with 3 togs helping you can turn into a few grand from a weekend event.

Bitching about a free print, Jeeeez. you will earn shed lodes from treating the people who book you well.

Is it any wonder a lot of you are still doing a day job.

A club has nearly 150-200 kids in the club. at a £10 each you will coin it in. sell a average shot for £70...

How much? What will you sell? Nowt, big fat ZERO. I did not see David Bailey or Bob Carlos on this thread. These are everyday folk .

Wake up people. Please.
 
Daryl said:
I can not believe the rubbish I'm reading. If you want money you guys then act like a professional.

We shoot lots of sports teams and shoot clubs in traditional grp shots. These clubs have upto 12 teams of various ages.

We give the club/coach a free framed shot. The potential of each club shoot is £2k.

You are missing the whole picture here. Then from that you get other clubs and the tournaments that with 3 togs helping you can turn into a few grand from a weekend event.

Bitching about a free print, Jeeeez. you will earn shed lodes from treating the people who book you well.

Is it any wonder a lot of you are still doing a day job.

A club has nearly 150-200 kids in the club. at a £10 each you will coin it in. sell a average shot for £70...

How much? What will you sell? Nowt, big fat ZERO. I did not see David Bailey or Bob Carlos on this thread. These are everyday folk .

Wake up people. Please.
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Er Daryl I think you need to read the whole thread. I do not get booked to shoot these events, nor do I get paid. I merely go down of my own accord to get practice in. Any sales I make are a nice bonus. But I am in no way in a position where I can give away prints for free.

Don't get me wrong if I was getting paid to shoot these games then i'd be more than willing to do a few freebies, but until then I have to charge for all my prints.
 
You have to give a few to gain a few....
you are charging for some so give the guy a freebie. It could lead onto paid jobs.

Phil, if you want to do more of this stuff try Mike Weeks he may know some togs who want 2nd/3rd shooters. Or look up DE Photo. They are a Franchise but the local tog to you may need another shooter.

You can learn a lot and quicker than doing it alone. Not just shooting but the logistics of events and printing onsite/web sales etc.
 
Daryl said:
I can not believe the rubbish I'm reading. If you want money you guys then act like a professional.

We shoot lots of sports teams and shoot clubs in traditional grp shots. These clubs have upto 12 teams of various ages.

We give the club/coach a free framed shot. The potential of each club shoot is £2k.

You are missing the whole picture here. Then from that you get other clubs and the tournaments that with 3 togs helping you can turn into a few grand from a weekend event.

Bitching about a free print, Jeeeez. you will earn shed lodes from treating the people who book you well.

Is it any wonder a lot of you are still doing a day job.

A club has nearly 150-200 kids in the club. at a £10 each you will coin it in. sell a average shot for £70...

How much? What will you sell? Nowt, big fat ZERO. I did not see David Bailey or Bob Carlos on this thread. These are everyday folk .

Wake up people. Please.
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He's already given a freebie CD of images if I read it all correctly. This is an additional request.
If it's an on-going thing then £10 per image is fine - if you can guarantee a regular amount of work.
In the case of a one-off, £70 isn't too much to ask for a decent framed A3 presentation print.

Nice to see someone else from Wallingford BTW...:lol:
 
i think it's more a case of taking the p/ss because they had already agreed the freebie & this guy was trying to move the goal posts & frankly, if you let them move them once they will just keep on.
 
Hazemyster said:
hmm im not sure what i would do. He is the manager so is he doing you a favour by letting you do the photos?
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If it's the RFU then they have a fairly reasonably approach to photography and mostly openly welcome parents etc as photographers.
The RFU policy is at: http://www.rfu.com/ManagingRugby/Sa...es/2009/Safeguarding/Photographic Policy.ashx

Daryl said:
Or look up DE Photo. They are a Franchise but the local tog to you may need another shooter.
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Which is a good shout. Both my local-ish DE people have approached me at events asking if I'd like to work for them. They generally want you to have an idea of what you are doing and decent equipment and they seem to have a formula to shoot to, but the work seems consistant
 
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