Same financial considerations apply to supermarkets online, though there are some advantages of personal shopping, I have one a mile away and easy to get to but I doubt it is cheaper to drive there than have it delivered. That’s within walking distance of course if you can carry the stuff & so on.
I think your living in cloud cuckoo land , they can’t stop hundreds of illegals crossing the channel each week .. so to verify a grey area is beyond there capabilities .. let alone the tens of millions of pounds worth of tobacco products still coming into the country daily . Hope they bring back duty free limits ,I used to enjoy my legal weekly trips to IrelandTrue.
In the current circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised to see local HMRC offices receiving long lists of suspect deliveries and sending out the juniors to "check up" on the goods. As a numbers game, they'd expect to pick up a good amount of unpaid duty from the people who thought they were unlikely to be fingered.
I think you would have to define a “grey importer”. I’m fairly sure it used to mean a U.K. based firm selling stuff they imported privately without going through the manufacture’s official importer whereas now it seems to refer to a firm based overseas.
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Thank you for your skilled analysis of my mental state.
Your logic is impeccable :banghead:
I think you would have to define a “grey importer”. I’m fairly sure it used to mean a U.K. based firm selling stuff they imported privately without going through the manufacture’s official importer whereas now it seems to refer to a firm based overseas.
I expect the first kind did pay/charge duty & tax whereas the second type pays, as you say, all they are liable for, which is nil as the final customer (you) is the importer. They do cough up on behalf of the customer when they get caught red-handed because it a cheap way to do business
I think this has all been done to death here many times before. I suppose the smugglers feel guilty and want reassurance from their fellows
The only smuggling I’ve done was pre joining the “EU” with fags, booze, salami and cheese in personal quantities. I never felt guilty but rather enjoyed following the ancient tradition of cheating the Exisemen
If you say so, though that’s not the impression I’ve had from previous threads on TP.
. I haven’t bough from any of them so no personal experience.
There are very few UK-based grey importers (HDEW is one and I think Microglobe is another, both of which have premises you can visit in person). Which ones do you think are based in the UK? All the big names I've checked previously have obviously just rented virtual office space, forwarding addresses and telephone numbers. None of these require a physical presence. 'Warehouses' have in some cases turned out to be residential addresses. Check the small print in the terms and conditions, and you'll generally see the company is registered in Hong Kong, outside HMRC jurisdiction. That doesn't necessarily mean that VAT isn't being paid (it sounds like Nodal Ninja are doing the right thing), but nobody in any of these threads has ever produced a bill showing itemised VAT from one of the Usual Suspects, and several of these companies have a documented history of massively under-declaring shipment values. If you believe otherwise, simply request an itemised bill like the one you receive from Nodal Ninja and see how far you get.
So, I’ve just been through Panamoz’s site and I can’t see anywhere that they say the goods are duty & tax paid. What they say are various versions of:
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HDEW is not an importer grey or otherwise. I have to say their site is very clear! They say:
So, I’ve just been through Panamoz’s site and I can’t see anywhere that they say the goods are duty & tax paid. What they say are various versions of:
In addition, all import charges will be covered by us fully, and will be either billed to our shipping account or refunded to you immediately if billed to you. Please contact us by email if you are billed and we will send you a refund in full within 24 hour
”covered fully” is not the same as paid and the “billed to you“ bit means, to me, if we are caught out we’ll reimburse you
No idea, but have they staff to chase up all these scofflaws who are buying the stuff? Probably they should sell the debts and let the collectors keep the triple duty or whatever it is now.
Surely, then, it would be a simple matter for one of these reputable companies to provide a VAT receipt? That would clear up the matter once and for all. Why do you suppose they don't?
In the case of HDEW it seems it's also possible to buy directly from them. In the Terms: 'If you come to collect the product from our UK premises or you are a business requiring UK vat supply then you can request this service and buy from HDEW Cameras' (though the section it references seems to contradict this). In the FAQ: 'Yes of course you are more than welcome to come and collect from us. We would just require you to call us first on 020 8669 5668 to place an order with us beforehand to check stock availability, and once your order is ready to collect, our sales team will contact you. This would be a purchase from us and not direct from our supplier.' Perhaps if you have a physical property from which a customer is obtaining goods they have paid for, then you can't claim to be anything other than a retailer, hence the different arrangement?
HMRC don’t have ‘local’ offices, their ‘junior’ staff sit in call centres handling enquiries, giving tax advice to citizens, that for some bizarre reason isn’t legally binding.True.
In the current circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised to see local HMRC offices receiving long lists of suspect deliveries and sending out the juniors to "check up" on the goods. As a numbers game, they'd expect to pick up a good amount of unpaid duty from the people who thought they were unlikely to be fingered.
afaik The only outsourcing HMRC do is debt collection, which is a million miles away from investigating tax fraud.
Take them to court how?
Apart from using contract IT staff (which isn't outsourcing I agree), HMRC do in fact use an external company to create the text for the speculative threatening letters they send out - the ones along the lines of "We believe that you have paid the incorrect amount of [National Insurance/PAYE/Dividend Tax] and will be investigating your returns. If you wish to make a voluntary declaration and payment, we may be able to close the enquiry. Failure to do so..." and they call this company and the HMRC staff employing them the "Behavioural Management Unit". In other words, the unit that persuades people to pay more tax which they may not even owe just in case, to avoid unspecified consequences. I have had personal experience of this involving numerous lawyers, accountants and several judicial reviews, including at least one where the judges criticised HMRC tactics severely, not that it made any difference.
I'm curious: have you ever worked for HMRC or their predecessors, to have this specialised knowledge of how they operate?
It’s expensive doing business here, rents, wages, consumer protections etc etc are dearer than HK or China.
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I live in Birmingham and have done all my life so no need to be dramatic.It’s expensive doing business here, rents, wages, consumer protections etc etc are dearer than HK or China.
But feel free to hate U.K. Not sure what nationality you are but … you know the rest
I certainly do not hate the UK, but we do expect a higher return and margin than Just about any other country.It’s expensive doing business here, rents, wages, consumer protections etc etc are dearer than HK or China.
But feel free to hate U.K. Not sure what nationality you are but … you know the rest
