Glass Upgrade - 70-200mm

Sko77y

Sko77y

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Scott
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Hi all, looking for a bit of sound advice.

Having recently upgraded my 450d to a 50d, I was taken by a whim to go full frame.......:bonk:

But, after having read through a couple of similar threads on here I have decided that upgrading my glass may be the way to go instead.

Currently I have:
Tamron 17-50 f2.8 Non VC (ideal walk around lens)
Canon 55-200 IS (only use for motorsport)

Predominantly I photograph cars/light painting, portrait/studio lighting etc but this season past got into Motorsport and bought the 55-200 to satisfy an urgent requirement. Now the seasons over (and its almost Christmas) I think its the best time to look into upgrades.

Have had a quick look and the Canon 70-200 F4 L Non IS is coming in around what I would like to spend (£300 2nd hand).

So, the question(s) I am asking are: which lens should I upgrade? Is the 70-200 a viable replacement for the 55-200 (if so is it a good idea)? or do I stop daydreaming and stick with what I have for now.

Thanks in advance
Scott
 
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Hi,

I have a 70-200 f4L, and it's a fine lens, but for your needs, might I suggest the 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM ? It's very, very good indeed, and matches, perhaps betters the L lens in some respects, and it has IS in both axis. Costs around the same price. It's a beautifully made lens, fast and quiet, and it's one of my all time favourites
 
dougdarter said:
Hi,

I have a 70-200 f4L, and it's a fine lens, but for your needs, might I suggest the 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM ? It's very, very good indeed, and matches, perhaps betters the L lens in some respects, and it has IS in both axis. Costs around the same price. It's a beautifully made lens, fast and quiet, and it's one of my all time favourites
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No chance the cheap 70-300 is anywhere near the IQ or speed (autofocus and aperture) of the L lens. The 70-300L is great but it is 3x more expensive.
 
dougdarter said:
Hi,

I have a 70-200 f4L, and it's a fine lens, but for your needs, might I suggest the 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM ? It's very, very good indeed, and matches, perhaps betters the L lens in some respects, and it has IS in both axis. Costs around the same price. It's a beautifully made lens, fast and quiet, and it's one of my all time favourites
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Thanks for the quick input Doug, I did look into the 70-300 but read that sharpness falls off after 200mm. I'm looking for quick autofocus and image quality. I'll have a look into it, but it'd be second hand so would make a good saving on the £300 budget

daugirdas said:
No chance the cheap 70-300 is anywhere near the IQ or speed (autofocus and aperture) of the L lens. The 70-300L is great but it is 3x more expensive.
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Sadly cannot justify 3x the price at the moment, is the 70-200 a genuinely smart upgrade?
 
daugirdas said:
No chance the cheap 70-300 is anywhere near the IQ or speed (autofocus and aperture) of the L lens. The 70-300L is great but it is 3x more expensive.
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Sorry, this is not my experience.

Photozone.de, one of the most respected test site has this to say about the 70-300IS:

MTF (resolution)
As hinted in the introduction the lens features an UD (ultra-low dispersion) element which is quite unusual for a consumer grade Canon lens. This special kind of glass is usually only used in Canon L (professional grade) lenses.
In the lab the effect of the new design became pretty obvious with surprisingly high resolution figures throughout the range. In fact the data was so impressive that I was already wondering whether I had mixed up the RAW files with a (supposedly) better lens.

The lens produced very good to excellent MTF figures. As to be expected the performance is best at 70mm with excellent center and border quality at all tested apertures. At 200mm and a little more so at 300mm there's a slight decrease in resolution but the results stay easily within very good territory reaching even excellent center figures at the respective performance peaks. Compared to true L grade lenses the contrast level seems to be a tad lower at 300mm. Nonetheless this is truly baffling for such an affordable lens.

Verdict
The performance of the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 USM IS came as a total surprise. Unlike its predecessor the lens is capable to produce a very high performance throughout the zoom range without the significant drop in quality at 300mm typical for most consumer grade lenses in this range. It seems as if the new UD element helps to lift the optical quality significantly. Distortions, CAs as well as vignetting are also very respectable. So in terms of optical quality the EF 70-300mm IS can be almost described as a hidden Canon L lens. As much as it may promise here its build quality remains in line to what you can expect from a consumer grade lens and the small max. aperture is limiting its scope specifically regarding portraits where you seek for a pronounced fore-/background blurr only possible via large apertures (f/2.8 and larger). However, if you're looking for a very good, light-weight tele zoom e.g. for travel photography this lens should be high on your shopping list.
 
dougdarter said:
Sorry, this is not my experience.

Photozone.de, one of the most respected test site has this to say about the 70-300IS:

MTF (resolution)
As hinted in the introduction the lens features an UD (ultra-low dispersion) element which is quite unusual for a consumer grade Canon lens. This special kind of glass is usually only used in Canon L (professional grade) lenses.
In the lab the effect of the new design became pretty obvious with surprisingly high resolution figures throughout the range. In fact the data was so impressive that I was already wondering whether I had mixed up the RAW files with a (supposedly) better lens.

The lens produced very good to excellent MTF figures. As to be expected the performance is best at 70mm with excellent center and border quality at all tested apertures. At 200mm and a little more so at 300mm there's a slight decrease in resolution but the results stay easily within very good territory reaching even excellent center figures at the respective performance peaks. Compared to true L grade lenses the contrast level seems to be a tad lower at 300mm. Nonetheless this is truly baffling for such an affordable lens.

Verdict
The performance of the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 USM IS came as a total surprise. Unlike its predecessor the lens is capable to produce a very high performance throughout the zoom range without the significant drop in quality at 300mm typical for most consumer grade lenses in this range. It seems as if the new UD element helps to lift the optical quality significantly. Distortions, CAs as well as vignetting are also very respectable. So in terms of optical quality the EF 70-300mm IS can be almost described as a hidden Canon L lens. As much as it may promise here its build quality remains in line to what you can expect from a consumer grade lens and the small max. aperture is limiting its scope specifically regarding portraits where you seek for a pronounced fore-/background blurr only possible via large apertures (f/2.8 and larger). However, if you're looking for a very good, light-weight tele zoom e.g. for travel photography this lens should be high on your shopping list.
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Thanks Doug, possibly I've overlooked this one. I'm in no rush so plenty of time to read all the reviews.

On a side note, awesome avatar :)
 
I've actually packed up my copy of this lens for sale, but I've unpacked it, and taken a couple of pics. Conditions are pretty murky, we've had 1.6" of rain in the last 24 hrs. The subject is a church, about 3/4 mile away across the fields. Given that the church is due south, lighting is almost contre jour!

70mm:

IMG_0226_zps1da3aa1a.jpg


300mm (enlarged 10% to demonstrate detail)

IMG_0225_zps5ad6b305.jpg


Not brilliant perhaps, but given the conditions, not too shabby either.
 
I've just had a quick look on MPB and for the same sort of money as the 70-200 F4, you can get a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 EX DG HSM Macro (both second hand).

I've not had the chance to research if the quality of image/auto focus is up to scratch or whether the Macro tag has any derogatory effects. But it seems as though this may be another option.

Both lenses are around the £400 mark on MPB.

Thanks
Scott
 
Ok after some research:

There are 3 lenses I would consider: Canon 70-200 F4 (non IS), Sigma 70-200 f2.8 EX DF HSM Macro or Tamron 70-200 f2.8 Di Macro.

All around the same sort of busget, after looking at reviews though both Sigma and Tamron have varying IQ and the Canon is more consistant.

BUT, the f2.8 would be handy in other aspects of my photography and not just motorsport.

Now I have started looking into this I can't seem to stop!

Anyone able to offer some suggestions?

Edit: I've looked and there is also a Sigma 100-300 F4 Ex APO IF HSM but that is pushing my budget a little too far!

Cheers
Scott
 
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I'm always a bit nervous of Sigma lenses because they reverse engineer to work with Canon, as Canon wont give out any info, so, there's always a risk an 'old' lens wont work on some bodies. Some Sigmas can be re-mapped/chipped to work, but not all, for that reason I'd buy new, taking that into account, or not at all unless the seller agreed to take it back if it didnt work with whatever body I had at that time. Of course if you go FF in the future you run the risk that the non Canon lens you buy now wont work, could be a problem and one I'm not prepared to risk, others do and it all works fine of course.
Matt
 
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MatBin said:
I'm always a bit nervous of Sigma lenses because they reverse engineer to work with Canon, as Canon wont give out any info, so, there's always a risk an 'old' lens wont work on some bodies. Some Sigmas can be re-mapped/chipped to work, but not all, for that reason I'd buy new, taking that into account, or not at all unless the seller agreed to take it back if it didnt work with whatever body I had at that time. Of course if you go FF in the future you run the risk that the non Canon lens you buy now wont work, could be a problem and one I'm not prepared to risk, others do and it all works fine of course.
Matt
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Thanks for commenting Matt, moving to FF later I hadn't even thought of the impact, I'll take it only the Canon would be compatible. All options would only be bought 2nd hand and all are about £400 from mpb at the moment.
 
the 70-200 f4 is a very very good lens ,you say your getting into motorsport, if this is including the odd rally a f2.8 lens may be a good bet as a lot are held in forrests and there will be trees blocking the light a lot in dense woodland ,
 
hoochy1 said:
the 70-200 f4 is a very very good lens ,you say your getting into motorsport, if this is including the odd rally a f2.8 lens may be a good bet as a lot are held in forrests and there will be trees blocking the light a lot in dense woodland ,
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Thanks for the reply Hoochy, its more track based events but who knows about the future, the f2.8 was more for prtraot work and better low light.

But the Canon gets very good reviews from everyone on here so far, plus it being an 'L'!
 
the 70-200 f4 would do you and you could allways ad a tc later on if you found you need more range ,i went the 50-500 sigma ,can i ask what tracks your going to kames is a good track so is knockhill, and crail, forgot to add wex have the 70-200 f4 non is for £499
 
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hoochy1 said:
the 70-200 f4 would do you and you could allways ad a tc later on if you found you need more range ,i went the 50-500 sigma ,can i ask what tracks your going to kames is a good track so is knockhill, and crail, forgot to add wex have the 70-200 f4 non is for £499
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Thanks again Hoochy, as long as it would still perform with a tc then that sounds ideal, even if it didn't they seem to hold resale value well.

I don't think I would buy new, second hand on here is £300 while MPB are charging £400.

Tracks are Alford, Boyndie and Fintray Hill Sprint - it was just events on the Scottish Hill Climb and Sprint calander. A few MX practice days. Hopefully get to a few more events next season, the Doune Hill sprint looks like quite a good day out.
 
Anyone able to offer advice on the tamron 70-200 f2.8 & sigma 70-200 f2.8?

The f2.8 is starting to sound quite attractive anf there's no chance I could afford the L f2.8. A move to ff wouldnt be happening for a long time if at all.
 
There a really good comparison on YouTube by thatnikonguy (under his new name), doesn't do the sigma as they didn't let him have one though but it is mentioned.
 
Update, I didn't realise you were looking at the older models, so that reviews not so much use, sorry.
 
The 70-200 f4 always have good reviews re image quality. I've only used a 2.8 (borrowed) and the length is ok looking down the straight but ideal for panning.
Remember on the 50D you get 1.6 x extra length due to the crop factor. If you went ff you would lose this.
If the f4 is in budget i'd get it and start using it. If you get some extra cash in the future it will still sell well.
The best gear is what you actually have!
 
JohnN said:
There a really good comparison on YouTube by thatnikonguy (under his new name), doesn't do the sigma as they didn't let him have one though but it is mentioned.
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JohnN said:
Update, I didn't realise you were looking at the older models, so that reviews not so much use, sorry.
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Thanks John, I'll still give them a watch when i get a chance. Thanks for the link.

minibloke said:
The 70-200 f4 always have good reviews re image quality. I've only used a 2.8 (borrowed) and the length is ok looking down the straight but ideal for panning.
Remember on the 50D you get 1.6 x extra length due to the crop factor. If you went ff you would lose this.
If the f4 is in budget i'd get it and start using it. If you get some extra cash in the future it will still sell well.
The best gear is what you actually have!
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minibloke said:
Just seen this
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=513010
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Thanks Anthony, I had seen that thread. It does seem like a very good lens for motorsport. But is it diverse enough for portrait? I'm getting swayed by f2.8 but the sharpness of the 'L' should really be a no brainer?

Plenty to think about. I'll try looking through reviews and see what the stats say.
 
Watched all the links last night by thatnikonguy, some very good reviews (for all of the mk2 lenses).

Now leads me to a more specific question, can anyone recomend the Sigma or Tamron 70-200 f2.8 (both no Image stabilised) or should I play it safe and go for the Canon 70-200 F4.

I would love f2.8 and image stabilisation, but for the moment (and forseable future/years) I cannot justify spending that sort of serious cash.

All the reviews and discussions on here seem to be for the mk2's.

Thanks in advance.
 
Sko77y said:
Watched all the links last night by thatnikonguy, some very good reviews (for all of the mk2 lenses). Now leads me to a more specific question, can anyone recomend the Sigma or Tamron 70-200 f2.8 (both no Image stabilised) or should I play it safe and go for the Canon 70-200 F4. I would love f2.8 and image stabilisation, but for the moment (and forseable future/years) I cannot justify spending that sort of serious cash. All the reviews and discussions on here seem to be for the mk2's. Thanks in advance.
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I haven't used either of the lenses, but when I was looking at the same. The sigma came out on top for focus speed and IQ. In the end tho I went for the tamron 70-200 f2.8 VC. Which is a belter if a lens. Paid £690 from Panamoz
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
I haven't used either of the lenses, but when I was looking at the same. The sigma came out on top for focus speed and IQ. In the end tho I went for the tamron 70-200 f2.8 VC. Which is a belter if a lens. Paid £690 from Panamoz
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How do you find the autofocus? It looks like a trade off between f4 all rounder for the Canon, iq for the tamron and autofocus for the sigma. Genuinly not sure what to fo.

Been offered an as new Canon 70-200 f4 usm for a good price.
 
Sko77y said:
How do you find the autofocus? It looks like a trade off between f4 all rounder for the Canon, iq for the tamron and autofocus for the sigma. Genuinly not sure what to fo.

Been offered an as new Canon 70-200 f4 usm for a good price.
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I tested it against the Sigma OS version and the Tamron is quicker, I didn't look at the Canon because I want the F2.8. However this video compares the Canon F4 L (non OS) and the Tamron 2.8 VC, as for sharpness and accuracy, I can't fault it on my 60D :thumbs:
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
I tested it against the Sigma OS version and the Tamron is quicker, I didn't look at the Canon because I want the F2.8. However this video compares the Canon F4 L (non OS) and the Tamron 2.8 VC, as for sharpness and accuracy, I can't fault it on my 60D :thumbs:
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Phil Young said:
Scott:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=511412

...I'm not on commission before people start thinking :p
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Thanks for you inputs Phil & Chris, very much appreciated! I've had a look and the only f2.8's that come into my budget that I can find are the non IS/VS/OSM. Unless I'm mistaken?

The Tamron: http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/us...es/tamron-70-200mm-f/2.8-di-macro,-canon-fit/

Sigma: http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/us...00mm-f/2.8-ex-dg-ii-hsm-macro---canon-ef-fit/

and the Canon has been offered to me off of the classifieds on here for sub £400 (basically new).

The sample pictures are excellent! got a soft spot for squirrels :lol:
 
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All, just thought I'd post a quick update, that I have sourced a Canon 70-200mm F4 L (non IS) from the classifieds on here.

Swooped in on a for sale thread where someone mentioned they had to shift a copy to purchase an f2.8 L lens.

Would have loved to go for a Tamron as suggested by Phil & Chris, but the Canon will hold its resale value so can always change it in future.

Now to convince the girlfriend that I've always had this pale grey lens in my camera bag.......

Will update when it arrives.
 
I bought the same a couple of weeks ago, you won't be disappointed! Image quality is fantastic compared to the 55-250 IS which I had previously. Don't particularly miss the IS for what I use it for
 
Sko77y said:
Hi all, looking for a bit of sound advice.

Having recently upgraded my 450d to a 50d, I was taken by a whim to go full frame.......:bonk:

But, after having read through a couple of similar threads on here I have decided that upgrading my glass may be the way to go instead.

Currently I have:
Tamron 17-50 f2.8 Non VC (ideal walk around lens)
Canon 55-200 IS (only use for motorsport)

Predominantly I photograph cars/light painting, portrait/studio lighting etc but this season past got into Motorsport and bought the 55-200 to satisfy an urgent requirement. Now the seasons over (and its almost Christmas) I think its the best time to look into upgrades.

Have had a quick look and the Canon 70-200 F4 L Non IS is coming in around what I would like to spend (£300 2nd hand).

So, the question(s) I am asking are: which lens should I upgrade? Is the 70-200 a viable replacement for the 55-200 (if so is it a good idea)? or do I stop daydreaming and stick with what I have for now.

Thanks in advance
Scott
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Hi Scott

The 55-250IS is a great little lens for the money - the Canon 70-300IS is an upgrade on it for not a lot of money, but the 70-200L series is another step up - esp in terms of autofocus.

The difficult decision to make is trying to decide if you want IS on the 70-200 as it adds quite a bit to the price of the lens. I had the 70-200F4 (non IS) a few years back and loved it, only sold it as I wanted to upgrade and couldn't afford to keep it as well...

Congrats on your new purchase - enjoy it :)
 
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Sko77y said:
All, just thought I'd post a quick update, that I have sourced a Canon 70-200mm F4 L (non IS) from the classifieds on here.

Swooped in on a for sale thread where someone mentioned they had to shift a copy to purchase an f2.8 L lens.

Would have loved to go for a Tamron as suggested by Phil & Chris, but the Canon will hold its resale value so can always change it in future.

Now to convince the girlfriend that I've always had this pale grey lens in my camera bag.......

Will update when it arrives.
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you wont regret it, its a amazing lens i shoot 95% of the time motorsports i went from the 55-250 to the 70-200 F4 L and aint regretted it since
 
tp1109 said:
I bought the same a couple of weeks ago, you won't be disappointed! Image quality is fantastic compared to the 55-250 IS which I had previously. Don't particularly miss the IS for what I use it for
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alix said:
you wont regret it, its a amazing lens i shoot 95% of the time motorsports i went from the 55-250 to the 70-200 F4 L and aint regretted it since
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tp1109 said:
I bought the same a couple of weeks ago, you won't be disappointed! Image quality is fantastic compared to the 55-250 IS which I had previously. Don't particularly miss the IS for what I use it for
Click to expand...

Thanks guys for your input, glad I've made the correct choice. Could have gone for a newer model but this lens came with a plethora of additional bits (hood,tripod mount, lens case, UV filter) it'd end up saving me money. Should arrive today :D

Shall leave this thread open and post up results when I have it - might be of some use to someone else in the same boat.
 
You shouldn't be disappointed with the Canon 70-200. I had one for a few years and the autofocus speed and picture quality were superb. You will find at Fintray on a crop body that you can't quite get a whole car in when it's alongside though. I only sold mine when I upgraded to a 2.8 IS lens a few years ago, but my shoulders still miss the lighter weight of the F4 at the end of a day ;)
 
JohnStewart said:
You shouldn't be disappointed with the Canon 70-200. I had one for a few years and the autofocus speed and picture quality were superb. You will find at Fintray on a crop body that you can't quite get a whole car in when it's alongside though. I only sold mine when I upgraded to a 2.8 IS lens a few years ago, but my shoulders still miss the lighter weight of the F4 at the end of a day ;)
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Thanks John, I think you are right about Fintray I was at 55mm on the inside of the hairpins and only just getting the car in shot. If you are going to any of the events next year be good to meet you and have a natter (and see the beast f2.8!).

On a totally unrelated topic, upon writing this we had an identical amount of posts :lol:
 
Sko77y said:
Thanks John, I think you are right about Fintray I was at 55mm on the inside of the hairpins and only just getting the car in shot. If you are going to any of the events next year be good to meet you and have a natter (and see the beast f2.8!).

On a totally unrelated topic, upon writing this we had an identical amount of posts :lol:
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You'll be OK with the minis and imps, but some of the bigger single seaters you'll have to angle the camera body in your hand to try and fit the car in on the diagonal.

I live only 10 mins from Fintray in Kintore, and weather permitting I should hopefully make at least one or two of the rounds (I've done my fair share of wet events :D). I wouldn't say the 2.8 focuses any quicker than my F4 did, but it does allow me to use a 1.4x convertor when 200mm isn't quite enough and still get reasonable performance in lower light.

I also have a 100-400 which is just about perfect for Alford in terms of focal lengths.

Just give me a shout if you see me there - I'm normally wearing an orange Knockhill media vest :D
 
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