Getting A Clear White Background

HoppyUK said:
I would say the last shows it most, the group in post #36. The hair detail has gone. The foreground is also underexposed and if you were to increase the overall exposure to get that right, the background would be nuked. Turning up the front light would sort it :)
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Yes I see what you mean there. I also think I need to calibrate my meter as I do get quite a few under eexposed shots. My Lights may not match my L-358. This was a hard shot with a small soft box and a tight group with a 6' backdrop.

HoppyUK said:
The shot of the little lad shows what the subject should look like, but with a white background. It's a delicate balance and I find the best way to do it is to turn the background down until it just shows grey on the LCD/histogram, then turn it up just a notch. Only just white is still pure white and anything more starts to eat away at the subject outlines, and generally kills contrast over the whole image.
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Yes I have learned to turn the backdrop down - I need to use it more though. I certainly take the point of turning up my main light though. Thanks
 
EOS_JD said:
Yes I see what you mean there. I also think I need to calibrate my meter as I do get quite a few under eexposed shots. My Lights may not match my L-358. This was a hard shot with a small soft box and a tight group with a 6' backdrop.
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A light meter is very useful for setting up multiple lights quickly, and adjusting ratios, but all sorts of small compound errors can creep in by the time the light finally hits the sensor.

I find my flash meter readings are hardly ever spot on, which is why I always go by the histogram for final exposure adjustment. Nothing else matters actually - the histogram is derived directly from the final exposure and doesn't care in the least what the meter says.

And don't believe that your f/numbers are accurate in terms of exposure. They are sometimes quite an alarming way out (and no, I'm not refering to that other thread ;) ).
 
HoppyUK said:
A light meter is very useful for setting up multiple lights quickly, and adjusting ratios, but all sorts of small compound errors can creep in by the time the light finally hits the sensor.

I find my flash meter readings are hardly ever spot on, which is why I always go by the histogram for final exposure adjustment. Nothing else matters actually - the histogram is derived directly from the final exposure and doesn't care in the least what the meter says.

And don't believe that your f/numbers are accurate in terms of exposure. They are sometimes quite an alarming way out (and no, I'm not refering to that other thread ;) ).
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Yes I didn't think of that! I read that ISO can vary from cameras too so what your meter thinks is 100 your camera may be different!

Using the histogram is difficult in the studio no? Fine for the backdrop but how do you tell if your subject is exposed correctly? Zooming in on a small section? Enkoying the chat butr I need to go to bed shortly :)
 
EOS_JD said:
Yes I didn't think of that! I read that ISO can vary from cameras too so what your meter thinks is 100 your camera may be different!

Using the histogram is difficult in the studio no? Fine for the backdrop but how do you tell if your subject is exposed correctly? Zooming in on a small section? Enkoying the chat butr I need to go to bed shortly :)
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Quite ;)

You should learn to read the histogram. It's the only way to be sure, and it's not that hard.

Actually taking accurate light readings is sometimes not easy - with studio flash the distances are short and the inverse square law (double the distance = quarter the light) is a big factor. If your meter is six inches out of position, you can sometimes lose half a stop without even knowing.

ISO is a moveable feast as you say. F/numbers are not T-stops and there are light losses within the glass itself, plus a generous dose of vignetting with many modern zooms, meaning the corners can easily be a stop lower than the centre. (In fact, if you see darker corners in the white background, there's a good chance it's lens vignetting, not the light at all - get rid of it in post, not by increasing the light.) And at high f/numbers especially, the actual aperture is often inaccurate due to mechanical tolerance (it sometimes varies from shot to shot, too, but that's quite rare with decent kit these days).
 
HoppyUK said:
Quite ;)

You should learn to read the histogram. It's the only way to be sure, and it's not that hard.

Actually taking accurate light readings is sometimes not easy - with studio flash the distances are short and the inverse square law (double the distance = quarter the light) is a big factor. If your meter is six inches out of position, you can sometimes lose half a stop without even knowing.

ISO is a moveable feast as you say. F/numbers are not T-stops and there are light losses within the glass itself, plus a generous dose of vignetting with many modern zooms, meaning the corners can easily be a stop lower than the centre. (In fact, if you see darker corners in the white background, there's a good chance it's lens vignetting, not the light at all - get rid of it in post, not by increasing the light.) And at high f/numbers especially, the actual aperture is often inaccurate due to mechanical tolerance (it sometimes varies from shot to shot, too, but that's quite rare with decent kit these days).
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I'll have a play around to see what I can get. :)

Right I'm gone!

Night all.
 
davidcod said:
Do you think any of these would be suitable to light up the HiLite?

http://www.micansu.co.uk/show.asp?show=&id=146#desc

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250408804138&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270438310543&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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None of the above.

Go for a flash light. You can buy cheap ones that will do the job. I'd suggest the DLites from Elinchrom. But yuo may be able to get by with these.

http://www.waltersphotovideo.co.uk/products/interfit-stellar-150ws-flash/1150/
 
EOS_JD said:
And the Black bottletop backdrop - I love it!

_MG_0393.jpg
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That's fantastic, I really like that.
 
EOS_JD said:
500W lights are OVERKILL to light the background. I have 2 x 400W lights normally close to about half power!

You can use them but you could be better using them to light your subject and get a couple of low powered units to light the backdrop.
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Thanks for your comments.

I am using two of these for the subject: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270455943896&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Can you please advise which ones I would need to light the backdrop?
 
davidcod said:
Thanks for your comments.

I am using two of these for the subject: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270455943896&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Can you please advise which ones I would need to light the backdrop?
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Why not these?
http://www.waltersphotovideo.co.uk/products/interfit-stellar-150ws-flash/1150/

I've only used flash so no idea how best to use the lights you have

Why not use flash for both subject and backdrop? Using those lights you have must be tricky?
 
Never used flashlights before. Seems a little expensive just to light the backdrop. Everything seems to be adding up!

Confused!
 
davidcod said:
Never used flashlights before. Seems a little expensive just to light the backdrop. Everything seems to be adding up!

Confused!
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Lighting sure is expensive though!!! You get what you pay for.
 
davidcod said:
Never used flashlights before. Seems a little expensive just to light the backdrop. Everything seems to be adding up!

Confused!
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Keep the cost down and use what you have . And spend an extra 2 mins on ps.

davidcod_copy.jpg


md;)
 
Nice photo re-touching but I want to get away from that because I take so many photos I do not want to re-touch.

What is the different between a flashlight and a 'normal' light?? I've got two umbrella with two bulbs:

# Emits bright white light.
# Colour temperature 6400k
# Luminescence at 250mm – 4200 Lux (minimum required for individual SAD therapy is 2500 Lux)
# Design – Compact Semi Spiral
# Equivalent to 325 watts

Really don't know if the flashlight for the backdrop would be good enough with my umbrellas on the subject?
 
Studio flash advantages:
- Power to drive big, soft reflectors
- No heat
- Short duration (effectively a very high shutter speed)

Hot Shoe flash advantages:
- Enough power for most things
- Very small and light
- Battery powered
- Very short flash duration
- Auto TTL exposure control with dedicated camera systems
 
I've cracked it now, been playing around tonight based on advice I got on here and my set up now gives me brilliant white backgrounds.

Two 250w lamps at about a third power pointing in on my white background about three feet to the side. Then my SB-400 to light the subject. It worked perfectly, but I have to say the light meter I bought and used today for the first time was essential, it helped me get the results I've been striving for for so long within five minutes.

Up until now I've been trying umbrellas and sofboxes and using Photoshop to touch up (as above) but didn't need them tonight. Now I've got this nailed I can relax a bit and start to learn more about lighting in general, which I guess is where the umbrellas and softboxes will come in.
 
EOS_JD said:
??

I'm not familiar with continuous light. Can you turn the power up and down? You need control of the light.
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I am getting really confused here. Why do I need to control the light in the backdrop? Surely I just need to light up the backdrop?
 
davidcod said:
I am getting really confused here. Why do I need to control the light in the backdrop? Surely I just need to light up the backdrop?
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You're confused because you're going in circles. Stop for a moment.
There are links posted in this thread that'll answer your questions. Invest time in reading them before you invest in lights. Really, that's the best investment you'll make. Spend a few minutes reading the link from page one: http://www.zarias.com/?p=77
If there's anything in that you don't understand, ask again.
 
I'm not sure, but from reading your posts, I guess part of the confusion is coming from the discussion of general lighting AND lighting the HiLite.The Lastolite is lit from the side(s) by pointing the strobes inside the Hilite, throwing the light against the back wall. As such, I'd be looking at the various vids on lighting the Hilite first, and then moving on to think about main lights for the subject and the train.
 
davidcod said:
I am getting really confused here. Why do I need to control the light in the backdrop? Surely I just need to light up the backdrop?
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In order to get the background white, the hilite needs to be brighter than the lights on your subject (about a stop more light). The brightness of the background will depend on the amount of light you have on your subject :)

This is one of the reasons why power and control of the power of the light is important.

As stated above - read about it and ask lots of questions and take the advice given. Buy flash for your backdrop - I have a feeling the continuous lights will be enough to light such a large backdrop.
 
davidcod said:
OK. I have gone and purchased this:

http://www.jessops.com/online.store...Mark II - 2 Head Kit (INT182)-74367/Show.html


The problem I am now having is the bulbs are only 100w each! Using both of the strobes is not lighting up the 6x7 backdrop.

Reading this: http://www.zarias.com/?p=77 Seems to be saying 2x375w to light up the backdrop with 100w on the subject.

So basically I have gone and purchased the wrong kit??!!??
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When you put the lights in what fstop are you getting? These should light up the backdrop with light.

What are you doing? Remember the modeling light is not the light that fills the backdrop.
 
The backdrop is too big for those two lights to light it up. 100w power each is doing nothing to the backdrop at full power.

I need the 500w lamps which is what the guide says at http://www.zarias.com/?p=77

With 150w on the subject, 2x100w in the backdrop is giving me a grey background.
 
davidcod said:
The backdrop is too big for those two lights to light it up. 100w power each is doing nothing to the backdrop at full power.

I need the 500w lamps which is what the guide says at http://www.zarias.com/?p=77

With 150w on the subject, 2x100w in the backdrop is giving me a grey background.
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Forgive me if I'm getting confused here too, but are you mixing up flash power (watt-seconds - ws) and continuous light in watts?
 
HoppyUK said:
Forgive me if I'm getting confused here too, but are you mixing up flash power (watt-seconds - ws) and continuous light in watts?
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Each bulb is 100w. How can this be enough? I am not using the flash.
 
OK. Now using it properly! Getting somewhere so will keep you posted!
 
markw08 said:
You light the hilite with one head and set to F16, then use another light 45 degrees to the camera set to F8.

This is the setup for 3/4 or headshot, i have never used a train...

Good thing with hilite, model can stand right back against it which is good if you havent got much room.
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Sorry about all the simple questions but... how do I set the head to F16? Mine is stating Min 1/8 Max 1. :bonk:
 
Ideally you need a light meter to measure this accurately.
 
Sorry but I don't understand how to set it to F16, when my dial is showin Min 1/8, Max 1.
 
The "1/8" to "1" is the power ratio of the flash.

F16 is the aperture reading for the camera.

If you have no light meter.

Set your main light up first with the background off then Starting with full power of "1" adjust your background to suit.
 
David,

Check out the lastolite website they have a load of free videos on setting up the hilite etc..

But i would invest in a light meter if you want to quickly and accurately setup your lighting system.
 
I've checked out loads of videos. This is beginning to drive my crazy. I really am totally stuck here.
 
Where are you based maybe somebody on this site may live close enough to give you a hand ???
 
It would help if you could clarify what you have set up so far: Am I right in thinking that you are pointing the two heads from the kit you bought at the back wall of the Lastolite using the side vents (i.e. one on each side)? And what are you using to light your subject in front of the Lastolite exactly?
 
OK. Played around with the settings and I am getting the following with these settings:

1/1.3
F 8.0
Hilite setting: Max
Subject setting (softbox): -2 stops (I think! It is 2 notches down).

P9200001_01.jpg


Getting there I think!
 
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