Getting A Clear White Background

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davidcod

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David
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Hi,

My first post so please be gentle!

I am trying to set up my home photo studio so I can take photos for mens clothing. I have the following:

Olympus SP-590UZ
Two silver photo umbrellas
Two pure white photo bulbs (Daylight 6500K, 26W, E27, 220V/50Hz)

The wall (my background) has been painted brilliant white. You will see from my photo I am getting a grainy background and I really want to make it pure white so little or no touching up will be necessary.

The two umbrellas are approx. 3ft from the wall - photos are attached.

Can anyone kindly assist me how to solve this problem?

Thank you,
David.

P9140001_01.jpg

P9140002.jpg

P9140003_01.jpg
 
Unfortunately i'm not a pro but try lighting the wall separately, think that should help.

Or try moving the two lights around to try and get a even spread of light across the wall behind.
 
Hey thanks for that. Did wonder about lighting the background but I am a newbie to this. Any idea on the kind of lighting necessary?
 
Bring the "model" or yourself :lol: forward a bit more. Point one of the umbrellas at the wall and one at the subject. Have the one at the wall 2 stops higher than the other one. You may/will need a light meter. Not the best at explaining but have a look round youtube, theres some handy tips.
 
Andy said:
Bring the "model" or yourself :lol: forward a bit more. Point one of the umbrellas at the wall and one at the subject. Have the one at the wall 2 stops higher than the other one. You may/will need a light meter. Not the best at explaining but have a look round youtube, theres some handy tips.
Click to expand...


I have just tried that but I am still not getting enough light. I'll get there in the end! :)
 
The background and the person are 2 separate subjects, each needs to be lit separately and the background needs to be lit more brightly (although nowhere near 4x as brightly as suggested by someone else)

Unfortunately your lights have very little power and are not adjustable, so you will need 2 lights on the background placed closer (to make them effectively brighter) than whatever light you have on the subject.
 
OK I understand what I require and will look a little like this:

high-key-lighting-diagram.jpg



Going by the two umbrella lights I already have do you know what two background lights I would need?

Very keen to learn just need a little assistance. Thank you.
 
OK. Having read reviews the Lastolite HiLite is defo the one to go for. The question is how do I actually light up the thing? Will one of my umbrellas do the job and then the other to light the subject? Or do I need to buy a flash light and then use the two umbrellas for the subject?
 
Glad you are asking this question, because before I get a Lasolite myself, I'd like to know people's thoughts on minimum lighting requirements for it, both with and without a train. I presume an extra dedicated light for the train will be needed.
 
Nice article Jason but unfortunately I do not have the room for that kind of set up. Pretty certain I am going with the Lastolite HiLite but just need to know how to light it.
 
davidcod said:
Nice article Jason but unfortunately I do not have the room for that kind of set up. Pretty certain I am going with the Lastolite HiLite but just need to know how to light it.
Click to expand...

There are many tutorials online which will provide the info you need. Amongst them are stuff like these (product) videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCzQDo-1G0I
And also such as this: http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2008/archives/1052 along with http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lastolite+hilite+tutorial
 
davidcod said:
Nice article Jason but unfortunately I do not have the room for that kind of set up. Pretty certain I am going with the Lastolite HiLite but just need to know how to light it.
Click to expand...

You light the hilite with one head and set to F16, then use another light 45 degrees to the camera set to F8.

This is the setup for 3/4 or headshot, i have never used a train...

Good thing with hilite, model can stand right back against it which is good if you havent got much room.
 
markw08 said:
You light the hilite with one head and set to F16, then use another light 45 degrees to the camera set to F8.

This is the setup for 3/4 or headshot, i have never used a train...

Good thing with hilite, model can stand right back against it which is good if you havent got much room.
Click to expand...


You can light with one head but I find you get a hotspot in the background. I prefer using 2 heads to light it set to about f14 (camera f8) so the pure white doesn't look over blown and you don't get any light falling back onto your subject which easily happens if you throw too much light into the highlight.

I have the train. Used it a couple of times but it's much darker than the hilite and requires to be lit seperately. More practice needed.

The bottletop backdrops are also very useful.
 
EOS_JD said:
You can light with one head but I find you get a hotspot in the background. I prefer using 2 heads to light it set to about f14 (camera f8) so the pure white doesn't look over blown and you don't get any light falling back onto your subject which easily happens if you throw too much light into the highlight.

I have the train. Used it a couple of times but it's much darker than the hilite and requires to be lit seperately. More practice needed.

The bottletop backdrops are also very useful.
Click to expand...

Which heads do you use, and can you recommend a set that represent good value for money to use with the lasolite? Thanks
 
davidcod said:
I have made the plunge and have gone for the 6x7 Lastolite HiLite.

Now looking for 2x500w lights to light the beast. Do you think I could use two of these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/60-Off-Microm...g_SM?hash=item3a4e8acefe&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if these will work. Don't you need something that will throw the light on the back wall of the tent? Btw, where did you buy the Lastolite? This is where I was looking - did you find cheaper? http://www.fotosense.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=hilite&x=0&y=0&gclid=CPj76fek9pwCFV8B4wodgyBMbg
 
Mine cost £279 as a bundle package with the train.

Lighting goes in the side panels. They would do the job wouldn't they?
 
davidcod said:
I have made the plunge and have gone for the 6x7 Lastolite HiLite.

Now looking for 2x500w lights to light the beast. Do you think I could use two of these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/60-Off-Microm...g_SM?hash=item3a4e8acefe&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Click to expand...

Dont use those they will get very hot and melt the hilite.

You need something like these http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Accessories/Studio/Studio%20Kits/products/Interfit/EX150%20Mark%20II%20-%202%20Head%20Kit%20(INT182)-74367/Show.html on sale in Jessops for £199.
 
davidcod said:
Mine cost £279 as a bundle package with the train.

Lighting goes in the side panels. They would do the job wouldn't they?
Click to expand...

Ok, the same price then with the train. I'm going to skip the train and buy the black cover with train for now I think.

Re the lights, I'm the wrong person to ask - let's see what others think. If they would do the job, I'll be the next customer in line after you :lol:
 
I have a hilite and I light it with 1 lencarta 200w flash with another lencarta flash as the key light with only a half a stop difference between them. This gives me perfect results everytime with no hot spots at all.

The train is bobbins btw.
 
I have the smartflash 200 twin softbaox kit. See the lencarta site. I use White furniture boards from focus and some White ducktape to attach t to the hilite. Have ordered another flash to blow the floor out but 1 flash does a decent enough job of it.
 
Anybody know the cheapest place to get 2x500w background reflectors (with stands)?

Been googling all day so I must be the google master for today! :p
 
For what you are trying to do, the Hilite looks like major overkill to me. Too big for the working space and very expensive - it's really intended for ease of transport and putting up in people's homes (I think). What's wrong with the white wall?

You should be able to get pure white with just one brolly. It doesn't need to be very big area for your subject (if you need more area, add another light) just make sure the light coverage is even and over expose it a bit so that it blows to pure white. The two stops over exposure mentioned above is too much - it only needs to be just white and any excess will bleach away at the outline of the main subject. Aim for half a stop to one stop max.

You could do the whole thing with cheap manual flash guns with brollies on stands, and optical hot shoe slaves - all for less than the Hilite.
 
PhotoTalk said:
Which heads do you use, and can you recommend a set that represent good value for money to use with the lasolite? Thanks
Click to expand...

I use 2 x 400BX Elinchrom heads but you can use pretty much anything to light them. A couple of cheap 150W strobes should o the job well. You can use one (I have) but I think you get a more even light with 2.

The D-Lites (elinchrom) are reasonably priced from an excellent manufacturer. The amount and quality of modifiers is huge and they are not too expensive.
 
davidcod said:
I have made the plunge and have gone for the 6x7 Lastolite HiLite.

Now looking for 2x500w lights to light the beast. Do you think I could use two of these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/60-Off-Microm...g_SM?hash=item3a4e8acefe&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Click to expand...

500W lights are OVERKILL to light the background. I have 2 x 400W lights normally close to about half power!

You can use them but you could be better using them to light your subject and get a couple of low powered units to light the backdrop.
 
davidcod said:
I have made the plunge and have gone for the 6x7 Lastolite HiLite.

Now looking for 2x500w lights to light the beast. Do you think I could use two of these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/60-Off-Microm...g_SM?hash=item3a4e8acefe&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Click to expand...

Sorry I thought you bought strobes - DO NOT USE THESE!!! You'll set the house on fire I think! The heat these lights produce I gess will be very hot. They are not advisable for studio photography as they are uncomfortable to work with - due to the heat - and your modifiers will be very limited.
 
OK Here's a couple of comparisons - very quick cause I didn't have time to re-edit.

First shot shows a 400BX light (with a reflector) shooting into the back of the hilite on one side. Normally it's the same on the other but for my first few shoots I used one light in the backdrop.

_MG_9369.jpg


Second image is a slight crop of the same one - You can clearly see the light fall off (2 lights are better)

_MG_9369_2.jpg


Next I show the vinyl train. I have edited it in Lr2 (brightened the foreground a bit) a 2 minute job but still needs work in Ps. The join line dark/white is clear and the black though is easy to clone out. I need to add a floor light. Again you can clearly see the light fall off and why 2 lights are better - more Ps editing though would sort it but I've just done these quickly to show what you get.

_MG_9403.jpg



You do not need to add a light to the backdrop at all! This is as-shot with a small soft box and a gold reflector. I would use silver the next time.

_MG_8833.jpg


And with the backdrop lit
_MG_9091.jpg


_MG_2330.jpg
 
One showing the two lights

_MG_0576.jpg


And a small crop- Lit from both sides you see it more evenly lit although this was a practice shoot - I was still tweaking!
_MG_0576_2.jpg


And the Black bottletop backdrop - I love it!

_MG_0393.jpg
 
Nice captures EOS JD, but the background is way over exposed. It's actually eating away at the edges of the subjects, and the foregound is under exposed. There should be no more than a stop difference, preferably half a stop.

The reddish skin tones look as if there's quite a bit of tungsten ambient light in there. Shutter speed? It's only a guess though - could be all sorts of things.

Hope you don't mind my comments, it's good of you to post example images, but I do think you've over cooked the background :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Nice captures EOS JD, but the background is way over exposed. It's actually eating away at the edges of the subjects, and the foregound is under exposed. There should be no more than a stop difference, preferably half a stop.
Click to expand...

In which images is the background over exposed? Not one of them has the background clipping the highlights?

Because in my first attempts I used only one light, the background was certainly uneven across the 6' width and was brighter on one side than the other which is why I chose these images. - To show it's not so good lighting with only one strobe.

HoppyUK said:
The reddish skin tones look as if there's quite a bit of tungsten ambient light in there. Shutter speed? It's only a guess though - could be all sorts of things.
Click to expand...

SS was 1/125 with no ambient light appearing in my frame (checked) I'm actually wondering if my WB is off because I get this red all the time. I bought an expodisc for my WB and never use it!

HoppyUK said:
I you don't mind my comments, it's good of you to post example images, but I do think you've over cooked the background :)
Click to expand...

I don't mind at all.

In my first couple of shoots I certainly did blow the background on one side (recovered in Lr) because I was trying to light a large area with only one light (didn't work well) but that is what I was trying to show here.

I have learned to control it better but do still find it hard to get it totally even. The young boy image has it lit fairly evenly.

JD
 
EOS_JD said:
In which images is the background over exposed? Not one of them has the background clipping the highlights?
Click to expand...

I would say the last shows it most, the group in post #36. The hair detail has gone. The foreground is also underexposed and if you were to increase the overall exposure to get that right, the background would be nuked. Turning up the front light would sort it :)

The shot of the little lad shows what the subject should look like, but with a white background. It's a delicate balance and I find the best way to do it is to turn the background down until it just shows grey on the LCD/histogram, then turn it up just a notch. Only just white is still pure white and anything more starts to eat away at the subject outlines, and generally kills contrast over the whole image.
 
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