First time using daylight developing tanks

thecornflake

thecornflake

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So I picked up 2 daylight developing tanks on the bay recently out of interest. One is a Rondinax 60 for 120 film and the other is an Essex 35 for 35mm. There is a very good site with lots of information about these tanks here - http://rondinax.wordpress.com/

So having one film of each type I trid developing with both last night. The 120 was unfortunately a disaster. I encountered an issue well documented on the site mentioned with the 120 tank, where the film got caught while separating from the backing paper. You pull the paper out of the tank with the reel inside, and the film should be fed into a separate area of the tank. Then you can turn something to make the film light tight, cut off the end from the spool, then the film can be loaded onto the reel with the tank closed. Even though I took the precaution suggested of not turned the knob all the way round the film still got caught. Therefore it wasn't all inside the light tight part, and I wasn't able to turn the knob back to close that bit as the film was in the way. The tank was already filled with developer as per instructions but I could have poured it out. In hindsight I could have then got the tank into my changing bag, removed the film and tried to get it onto my Paterson reel to dev in that tank instead. However the film was very creased where it had got caught then bunched up so realistically I don't think that would have gone well.

Luckily it was only a test roll, I may have to buy some cheap expired 120 film and see if I can find a way to reliably load into the tank, because I think it would be better if I can get past that bit.

Loading the 35mm into the Essex tank was easier as there isn't the issue with backing paper, and developing was very straight forwards. I'm about to scan some of the negs so I'll post the results but they look ok. People do complain about having to constantly turn the reel during development and fixing, but I'd only be standing there in between inversions with a Paterson tank anyway and it wasn't that much of a big deal. Filling and emptying is slower so timings aren't as accurate, not sure yet whether this has had a noticeable effect.
 
thecornflake said:
People do complain about having to constantly turn the reel during development and fixing ...
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Couldn't this be negated by putting more fluid in? I've watched a couple of those videos you linked to and the 120 in particular seemed to be suitable for stand development as the film's below the level where it'd overflow if you topped it up.
 
In theory yes you could fill to cover the whole reel (JUST) then only turn intermittently or do stand development. I'm not sure of the reason for only filling to halfway. There is a very slight leak around the knob as this threads through into the centre of the reel, although this is probably more due to age (there is a celuloid washer that's probably past its best) and it's still less leaky than my Paterson tank when I invert.

EDIT: You would obviously need twice as much developer, this is probably the main reason. The Essex 35 uses 200ml of dev\fix and the Rondinax 60 150ml.
 
thecornflake said:
There is a very slight leak around the knob ... probably more due to age ...
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I know the feeling. :(


thecornflake said:
EDIT: You would obviously need twice as much developer, this is probably the main reason. The Essex 35 uses 200ml of dev\fix and the Rondinax 60 150ml.
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I was wondering if economy was part of the reason, though using 4ml instead of 2ml of Rodinal doesn't feel as though it'd break the bank. I get your point about the washer though, could you dismantle the box to replace it with a more modern o-ring or similar?
 
I'm quite tempted by the Essex tank idea as I know I can get my camera to leave the leader out so it should be a doddle (hah) to load the film. Anything has to be easier than loading a spiral in the dark... they should put it on Krypton factor.
 
srichards said:
I'm quite tempted by the Essex tank idea as I know I can get my camera to leave the leader out so it should be a doddle (hah) to load the film. Anything has to be easier than loading a spiral in the dark... they should put it on Krypton factor.
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Funny you should say that, I've only just posted this in another thread - the leader of the film is u/s anyway because you have to pull it out to get the film into the camera so trim the end (cut off the thin bit and cut diagonally across the corners to make it easier to load) and load the leader into the reel before you put it in the bag. You shouldn't have to take too much film out, enough to get it past the ball bearings in the reel, then put the reel and film into the bag, zip up and you're ready to go.
 
I think I'd still struggle somehow!

I'm slightly bemused that no one has made a spiral loading system that works like the inside of a camera so you'd line the normal leader up onto the lugs, shut the top and wind on the whole film without having to cut or bend the leader. You'd only have to cut the end so it could do the whole film. You could even have one with a motor load that dropped the wound on film into a tank below.
 
srichards said:
I think I'd still struggle somehow!

I'm slightly bemused that no one has made a spiral loading system.....
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Spiral - no, but Minox used a helix for their sub-miniature daylight tank, with the wonderful German name 'Tageslichtentwicklungsdose'



One of these days I'll get round to using it and the Minox B, although I've no idea what I could do with the negatives.
 
I bought a film leader retriever, works great. Although most of the time I can rewind leaving the leader out, just by listening carefully while rewinding.
 
What would be interesting would be a system that used the daylight tank method of loading film onto the reel (because it seems to work a lot better than hand loading Paterson tank reels), then if you could take the reel out and into a Paterson style tank. even if that had to be done in a darkroom\changing bag.
 
I'm sure the hive mind on here could come up with something!

Having a non stick additive in the developer is another idea. This way the film wouldn't stick together anyway so you wouldn't have the uneven development issues even if you were cack handed and just dumped it into the tank without a spiral...
 
If the film is left leader out, it could be implemented *fairly* easily.
 
NickT said:
Spiral - no, but Minox used a helix for their sub-miniature daylight tank, with the wonderful German name 'Tageslichtentwicklungsdose'



One of these days I'll get round to using it and the Minox B, although I've no idea what I could do with the negatives.
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That's great Nick, thanks. Just when I thought I didn't need any more kit you tell me there's a developing tank called a Tageslichtentwicklungsdose! Now I have to go and buy one and I don't even have a Minox!
 
Got a friend to bid for a rondinax 35u. Outbid. Arse! Decided I definitely want one or the Essex one but don't wish to spend silly money if its avoidable.

I should really start hanging round car boots more :)
 
RaglanSurf said:
That's great Nick, thanks. Just when I thought I didn't need any more kit you tell me there's a developing tank called a Tageslichtentwicklungsdose! Now I have to go and buy one and I don't even have a Minox!
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I do but the Tageslichtentwicklungsdose wouldn't help me develop the film - it's a digital Minox!

Have to say that I never had a problem with Patterson spirals as long as they were bone dry before starting to load them.
 
Just watched a couple of videos on Youtube. Those things look brilliant.

Does anyone know how much they actually go for on eBay? Those £100+ B-i-N seem optimistic.
 
The one I was looking at went for £28. The 35U seems to be the best priced. The 60 I think does 120 so it fetches more?
 
^^^ More Stokie inventions.... oakcakes and misery.... :D
 
I managed to get hold of an essex 35 tank. Should get it in the next week or so :) I was going to use it for all 35mm dev.

Is there anyone other than first call photographic that stock the digibase pouches? First order may not be so bad as will need all 3 and a few other bits like squeegee and hanging clips. For the odd thing the postage is a bit much.
 
I use clothes pegs for hanging, there's normally enough unused film from the leader to hang the strip over the shower curtain rail and use the weight of the pegs to keep it there while it dries. And don't worry about a squeegee, I get just as good results with two fingers :)
 
Good idea about the trouser hangers or normal pegs. I'm bound to have something somewhere already :)

The other thought I had was whether to use wetting agent at any point to help rinse off the chemicals in the final rinse or initially to make sure there was even devving going on?
 
Only use wetting agent in the wash, otherwise your chemicals will foam up when you agitate.

Personally I don't use wetting agent, I find it easier to clean the negs before scanning with some Isopropyl Alcohol.
 
I add a drop of washing up liquid when I'm doing the final wash, then wash until no more bubbles come out. Works for me.
 
If washing up liquid works safely then that's the no brainer option I was hoping for :)
 
Strappy said:
I add a drop of washing up liquid when I'm doing the final wash, then wash until no more bubbles come out. Works for me.
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Me too, a tiny drop and agitate for a couple of minutes then back under the tap for 6 or 7 minutes. Never had a streaky neg yet.
 
srichards said:
I'll see how I get on. If they're well streaky I will go at them with the IPA
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And if that doesn't work....

greenekingipas.jpg



Steve.
 
I have the tank. I have the chems. I have a nearly finished roll of film to try in it. I also have the biggest pair of cold feet!

Shot the whole roll nearby just in case I fluff it but never the less...
 
srichards said:
I have the tank. I have the chems. I have a nearly finished roll of film to try in it. I also have the biggest pair of cold feet!

Shot the whole roll nearby just in case I fluff it but never the less...
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You'll be fine, just take your time and make sure you practice loading the reel in daylight first so you know what to expect, I sacrificed a roll of Poundland special for the purpose.
 
RaglanSurf said:
You'll be fine, just take your time and make sure you practice loading the reel in daylight first so you know what to expect, I sacrificed a roll of Poundland special for the purpose.
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It's a daylight tank fortunately. I couldn't load a spiral in the dark if my life were to depend on it. I've tried several times! I've got an essex 35mm mkii :D
 
srichards said:
It's a daylight tank fortunately. I couldn't load a spiral in the dark if my life were to depend on it. I've tried several times! I've got an essex 35mm mkii :D
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Forgot you got the Essex, is it like the Rondinax, I couldn't find any pics? It's still worth sacrificing a roll of cheapo film just to make sure it winds on OK, my Rondinax sometimes doesn't wind on properly if you don't get it completely square on to the spiral.
 
My first film is some kodak 200 that is dated 2008 that was probably £2. The poundland Vista is quality in comparison ;) There is a chunky film guide thing that looks like it would prevent any kind of wonky winding.

It's very similar to the Rondinax. Not sure whether to use the whole pouch of 500ml at a time or to just put in half as it uses only 200ml of chemicals. The video on firstcall's site has him plonking the whole lot in as they show them being used with a rondinax.
 
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