Film cameras and "Street" stuff

Ambermile

Ambermile

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Early this year I spent a few sessions in Norwich with the digitals doing yer average Street-type piccies. Those sessions would pretty much be the first time for this sort of photography for me and I felt a bit embarrassed doing it - I know I shouldn't but there you are. I have just about decided not to go back and do more even though in a masochistic way I enjoyed it as my confidence gerw.

Point is that yesterday as I was trundling around Gt Yarmouth with the Vitomatic IIa, the Bilora Radix VI and the Minolta X-700, it seemed a completely different atmosphere and experience. People would stop and chat, stop and wait for me to take a picture then come over and ask about the cameras. One point a shopkeeper shouted from his till wtf I was doing taking pictures of his shop... Cue fixed grin and I walked into the shop and showed hime the cameras and said I was testing them... the almost instant change in his attitude was amazing and we spent some time talking about the cameras, I promised to send him the pics if they came out and I left feeling dead smug.

Is this sort of different experience echoed by others here? Seems that if you use a proper camera then yer everyday Joe Public accepts and even enjoys getting in on the act. Do they see film as so different? That they are going to be part of a proper picture, not a Facebook page?


Arthur
 
I think it's more to do with your attitude than your cameras...
I find approaching people and showing them how you're portraying them does the job equally well...

I'll generally only take one or two grab shots - if any at all - before I actually ask someone's permission...pretty soon they go back to doing what it was that drew you to them in the first place...
 
Arthur I agree with you.

Folks in my office know I am interested in cameras and photography, since I collect the prints from a lab in London and bring them into the office. Often someone would say : don't you use digital cameras. I would say : No. And they would say : Ah, so you are a real photographer. Like the professionals.

Most people who dont know much about /are not interested in photography ( and thats the vast majority) still think real photographers use film and using film is being/aspiring to be a professional.

So yes, there is a streed cred and respect associated with using film thats absent in digital in many people's mind.
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
Arthur I agree with you.

Folks in my office know I am interested in cameras and photography, since I collect the prints from a lab in London and bring them into the office. Often someone would say : don't you use digital cameras. I would say : No. And they would say : Ah, so you are a real photographer. Like the professionals.

Most people who dont know much about /are not interested in photography ( and thats the vast majority) still think real photographers use film and using film is being/aspiring to be a professional.

So yes, there is a streed cred and respect associated with using film thats absent in digital in many people's mind.
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Sorry but I have to disagree with most of that....

I doubt many non photographers these days even realise film still exists!! I haven't been asked "you using film or digital?" for years....in fact the last time I did get asked that I was using film! (that was about 4/5 years ago!)

I think the main things that make a photographer (of any level or kind) seem to be a "pro" or "aspiring pro" to a non photographer, are a big camera with a big lens and a big flash....whether there is a roll of film or a sensor inside the camera probably doesn't even enter Mr General Publics thoughts!
 
I dunno Arthur, I think maybe the direction of that conversation was effected dramatically by you.
I don't have too much time for peeps gobbing off like they have some kind of say in what I do or don't photograph in my own time with my own camera in a public place.
I can guarantee that the type of camera I was using wouldn't alter the direction my finger travelled in response to a "wtf".
However, peeps do notice film cameras, they can't believe you're using them, such is the proliferation of curvy black plastic generic dslr's and compacts.
Sometimes it just something they remember from years ago..:)
 
Ujjwal

Sorry buit I too disagree. WHy does using 20 year old plus technology make you a better photographer than moving into the 21st Century? A lot of photography shops around here, no longer stock rolls of film, what does that tell you? Generally things move on, and like it or loath it, digital appears the way forwards (for the moment at least!)

I would say the vast majority of U18's nowadays wouldn't know that such things at films exist / existed??? :shrug: To me most people think a P&S is amn am-cam, whereas a DSLR means you are "good!"

My general experience (solely Digital) is, Big camera + Big (to Joe Public lens) = that camera must take a good picture. :shrug: (When I bolt on the 120-400 Siggy) that instantly thereofre elevates me to "togger deity mode!2 :notworthy: After all to Joe Public, it appears to be the size of the equipment that makes a picture, not how you use it...... ;)
 
Part of it is location. In central London, or a National Trust Property or a seaside resort nobody's surprised that someone is pointing a camera around. In ordinary urban locations people are a bit more suspicious sometimes (are you the council/rent/police?). I'm honest if someone asks who looks reasonable (I take photos of allsorts mate, the missus says I'm addicted) and have a line ready if they look like trouble (I was born down this road and my best friend lived here and wants a snap sending to Australia, or whatever).

I'd never take kids without asking parents and giving them an address. Have some cards done with a blog link if you're bothered.
 
I think it may be more about how the camera looks: The public has preconceived ideas about how cameras (and the use to which they are being put) look. Kit which does not follow the modern/universal slr styling model is generally seen as less threatening. If I am out and about in Norwich and make some pics with a compact few people notice, and those that do accept it.:)
If I try the same thing with one of my slrs I definitely get noticed, whether it is a film or digital camera makes no difference as they all appear the same to Joe public.:nono:
In the publics' perception: Maybe Arthurs cameras fall more into the compact category (friendly) than in the "proper" - oooh, what's he doing with that big thing? category. :shrug:
 
I think it was probably your approach. I do find people are genuinely curious to those that use film. I tend to get a wtf you use film?!?! I think the whole film thing opens up a conversation with people ie why are you still using that? It works both ways, people like to see the back of a dslr so they can see their picture, on the flip side have a belief if shot in film they are less likely to be manipulated on a computer (in my experience) even though we all now that can take place now anyway.

Maybe it is the same curiosity that goes with classic cars.. In this case I would imagine your enthusiasm and selection of photographic equipment did lend itself to an engaging conversation!
 
I concur that people don't associate film with professionals and find the opposite is much more common.
 
Lol..a few points.

1. You can't disagree with my experience, its a fact. You may disagree with their view, but not with the fact that they have that view. Quite a few people in my office have expressed that view

2. I am not talking about 18, 20, or 25 yr old. The average age in my office will be around 40; so that might skew the view. They certainly know what a film camera is.

3. I was not suggesting that they were right ( neither that they were wrong), simply stating what I have heard several times. Its true film is not found often now a days, which is why, maybe, they think its a specialist stuff used by professionals.

4. It was not a invitation to a digital vs film debate, because its not needed. If I thought digital was a better/preferred medium for me, I would use digital. I use film. End of that discussion :D
 
I thought I was asking a question about general attitudes, not age-related picture-making preferences!

Yes, two of the three cameras I used were old - visibly old - so would be a talking point for anyone that has ever looked at a camera - digital or otherwise, and the X-700 obviously got in on their coattails. But nevertheless, I did feel more relaxed, I was not stared at mistrustingly, nobody appeared to be trying to get out of my line of sight - certainly with the digital there was nobody even the slightest bit interested in the camera, just where it was pointing. People stopped to watch, to grin at the sound of the advance, watching me strugle with reflections in the rangefinder, and so on. Maybe because one is clearly more involved in the complete process rather than point and click... making it more of a show than the somewhat more furtive point-click-run that more modern cameras (yes, both film and digital) allow.

Location may play a part but it's hardly peak season so that's maybe not so important although yes, there are definitely places where people seem to almost expect photographers to be pointing everywhere and so view it as one of the perils of visiting. This was not, I think, one of those times though and yet I was still much more comfortable than I ever was in Norwich.

Professional-looking = big camera? Tosh I think, I had *four* cameras draped about my person and yes, one of them was a bloody great digital camera with a 70-300 Sigma on it so by definition I was perceived as a pro togger right? Most people cannot tell a film camera from a digital one (if they even think about it) - unless the user has to advance by hand. Then the cat's out of the bag and the grins come out - rather than the pitchforks.

Arthur

PS - Lynton, sorry but there is absolutely nothing in your post I can agree with you on!
 
I think you need to read my post again!!

ujjwaldey8165 said:
1. You can't disagree with my experience, its a fact. You may disagree with their view, but not with the fact that they have that view. Quite a few people in my office have expressed that view
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Never once said I disagreed with your experience, how could I? :thinking: So please don't put words in my mouth :nono:

What I disagreed with was you claiming that the few people in your office share a view of the majority of the people in this country! A few people in your office does not make this statement in anyway true:
ujjwaldey8165 said:
Most people who dont know much about /are not interested in photography ( and thats the vast majority) still think real photographers use film and using film is being/aspiring to be a professional.
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:nono:

ujjwaldey8165 said:
2. I am not talking about 18, 20, or 25 yr old. The average age in my office will be around 40; so that might skew the view. They certainly know what a film camera is.
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I sure almost the whole post teen population know what a film camera is, what I said was that most non photographers don't know that it still exists! Places to buy film related items including film itself are becoming rarer all the time, which is a shame, but it's the way things are.

ujjwaldey8165 said:
3. I was not suggesting that they were right ( neither that they were wrong), simply stating what I have heard several times. Its true film is not found often now a days, which is why, maybe, they think its a specialist stuff used by professionals.
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Actually, you did suggest it by making this comment:
ujjwaldey8165 said:
Most people who dont know much about /are not interested in photography ( and thats the vast majority) still think real photographers use film and using film is being/aspiring to be a professional.
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It's my opinion that your work friends are wrong, and are part of a very small group that associates film with the "Pro" end of the photographer spectrum. I'm not saying no one has that opinion, clearly the people in your office do think that....

ujjwaldey8165 said:
4. It was not a invitation to a digital vs film debate, because its not needed. If I thought digital was a better/preferred medium for me, I would use digital. I use film. End of that discussion :D
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Now you've completely lost me :shrug: No where in my post did I mention anything at all about film vs digital :nono: I know by looking at some of your previous posts in other threads, this is something you love to go on about quite a bit, but I for one will never join in that debate! And please, yet again, for the love of god, please stop putting words in my mouth!!!!

ujjwaldey8165 said:
End of that discussion :D
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:thumbs:
 
My Dad called my new TLR a proper camera just this Sunday gone, and some old bloke said the same thing a week ago about my FM2n after I'd just bounced it of a concrete car park...:shake:, he was more upset about it than me :lol:
Would he have even approached me had I been bouncing my D200 off the concrete, I doubt it.
I think age plays a role in both photographic preferences and attitude.
 
oh god, don't start with the bladdy troll posts.. Damien
 
I don't normally wander around shooting "street" stuff, but when I got the Fed3 I took it for wander around a local town. I did get a couple of responses that began with "wtf..." but I just smiled, and said I'd bought this crappy old russian film camera and wanted to see if it worked, so I was snapping a few shots before I took the film in to be developed. When I mentioned it was a film camera, most people did change attitude a bit, probably because they realised that DSS snoopers would be using digital cameras from a cost point of view...
 
Maybe I should read your posts again then ??

errm....no thanks
 
Fact is digital has superseded film.............. just as we don't have steam trains anymore...... other than "special stuff....."


Times move on. A Commodore c64 is not new or special..... A 1995 "brick" mobile is not as good as an iphone.

Yes there are tradionists and purists, but a 10th into the 21st C digital appears to be the future, given that analogue radio and TV is about to be phased out........

A&U - I really cannot be ar$ed really to get into an argument with either of you, your opinion tprivate messages from previous times A, makes it insignificant, but I would find it odd that any person would walk around with 4 cameras adorned around their neck.... "Each to their own though, Rodney, each to their own!" :lol::lol::lol:

If it's all down to size, then a 30 yr old film is comparable pretty much to a modern bridge, or even an entry DLSR with the kit.
 
Lynton, that's utter crap, and you are clearly trolling now. Please butt out - this is a film and conventional section - not an arena.

PM's? Because your camera was newer than mine and because Damiens lens was bigger than mine so by defintion they were better and took better pictures? What a raging arrogance you have there for someone with no imagination. The same arrogance that says your choice of kit is better than mine.
 
Film will go the same way that records went. Its popularity will diminish to the point where it’s ‘worth’ is recognised by a select few. It will then develop into a more specialised market that concentrates on its strengths and enjoys its weaknesses.

On a slightly different note get a Nikon F5 for street photography and see people’s confused faces when they ask to see the pictures on the screen on the back.
 
Blimey...I come in here for a bit of peace and quiet and it all goes Pete Tong...maybe it's me - maybe I'm jinxed - the TP rant-catalyst or something...

I still think it's attitude - if you look relaxed and comfortable, then the people you're photographing will be put at ease...It helps of you engage the subjects as well - use a short lens...
If you look like a shifty b****r chimping at your sniper-shots from 50m away with a long-lens then obviously people will wonder what kind of wierdo you are...
 
Ambermile said:
Lynton, that's utter crap, and you are clearly trolling now. Please butt out - this is a film and conventional section - not an arena.

PM's? Because your camera was newer than mine and because Damiens lens was bigger than mine so by defintion they were better and took better pictures? What a raging arrogance you have there for someone with no imagination. The same arrogance that says your choice of kit is better than mine.
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Arthur, you continue to make comments about "digitals" and film cameras being "proper cameras". It's hardly surprising when someone comes back at you.
 
Arthur,

I am not trolling. Have never done it and have no intention to do so.........

Take a hike and don't tell me where and when I may or not post.:clap:

Rob (arkady) has it down to a T! :thumbs:

Genuinely tried to help. But failed.
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
What ever gave you the idea Damien, that I was apologising? :D
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You didn't, I just thought I'd join in your game of putting words in peoples mouths!! :D

The way you accused me of starting some sort of film vs digital debate when I said absolutely nothing of the sort.....that deserved an apology from you, but all you did was make a rather childish joke by denying you weren't replying to my post....quite sad really :shake:

You were the first person in this thread to make any reference at all about film vs digital....:cuckoo:
 
I wasn't replying to you Damien; that's that. Lets just leave it there.
No need to make this anymore unpleasant.
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
I wasn't replying to you Damien; that's that. Lets just leave it there.
No need to make this anymore unpleasant.
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Sorry, not going to leave this one....

I'd like you to explain who you were replying to in post 11, because if it wasn't me, then your replies make no sense in reference to anything else that was said before post 11.

And if it was me that your reply was aimed at, then that makes you a liar! Either way you need to clarify who your comments were aimed at....

Plus, you still haven't accepted/admitted that you were the first one to raise the "film vs digital" topic, and that it wasn't me....like you seem to have made out it was! :nono:

I seldom get wound up with things said on this forum, I'm far too laid back for that, but you cannot be IMO very rude like you appear to have been to me, then simply say "Let's just leave it there" when someone challenges you on it.

You are welcome to look through my post history to see I don't make a habit of trolling or arguing, it's something that doesn't interest me! :shake:

In my first post in this thread I offered a decent, relevent and well meaning reply to Arthurs original post....nothing more!
 
Slimbert said:
Sorry, not going to leave this one....

I'd like you to explain who you were replying to in post 11, because if it wasn't me, then your replies make no sense in reference to anything else that was said before post 11.

And if it was me that your reply was aimed at, then that makes you a liar! Either way you need to clarify who your comments were aimed at....

Plus, you still haven't accepted/admitted that you were the first one to raise the "film vs digital" topic, and that it wasn't me....like you seem to have made out it was! :nono:

I seldom get wound up with things said on this forum, I'm far too laid back for that, but you cannot be IMO very rude like you appear to have been to me, then simply say "Let's just leave it there" when someone challenges you on it.

You are welcome to look through my post history to see I don't make a habit of trolling or arguing, it's something that doesn't interest me! :shake:

In my first post in this thread I offered a decent, relevent and well meaning reply to Arthurs original post....nothing more!
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Read the other posts, there were other people who were also commenting on the issue and specifically responding to me ( which, as far as I am concerned, is not a problem)

You quoted me and responded to me, not to Arthur's post. I chose to ignore what you said; and respond to the other people who were commenting on my opinion.

Why can't you accept that sometimes people choose to ignore what you say and not respond to it? Whats so rude about that. If you choose to get wound up on what I said, especially when I was not saying it to you, well, so be it.

And that's that.

Oh, and by the way, Arthur's post was about people's reaction to film vs digital cameras; as far as I could tell....:D
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
Oh, and by the way, Arthur's post was about people's reaction to film vs digital cameras; as far as I could tell....:D
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Do you really think non-photographers know the difference between a new DSLR and an equivalent-sized/spec/price (when it was new) film SLR?

I still get asked on occasion "is it digital?" when dragging all my kit out of the bag - it never really occurred to me that people have a perception of film being for 'real' photographers while digital is reserved for charlatans and happy-snappers...

I point out that I haven't used film for a 'paying' job for ten years and get on with it...
But maybe there is something in it after all... maybe there's still a perception that because there's some notional black-art to producing a good print from a neg - a skill that's beyond a lot of people, even those who spent a lot of time in the darkroom - that film is 'real' photography whereas digital is just 'making pictures'...? I don't know - not by me, certainly, but maybe 'out there'...by 'them'...
 
Arkady said:
Do you really think non-photographers know the difference between a new DSLR and an equivalent-sized/spec/price (when it was new) film SLR?

...........- that film is 'real' photography whereas digital is just 'making pictures'...? I don't know - not by me, certainly, but maybe 'out there'...by 'them'...
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Rob

I am sure they don't..., at least my experience suggests so.

And indeed, that perception that 'film is real photography' exists, again, at least, in my experience. I guess it could be somewhat age relate. Which was, I think, what Arthur was asking; and what I was saying....

Whether there is any merit in that perception is an entirely different discussion.
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
Rob

I am sure they don't..., at least my experience suggests so.

And indeed, that perception that 'film is real photography' exists, again, at least, in my experience. I guess it could be somewhat age relate. Which was, I think, what Arthur was asking; and what I was saying....

Whether there is any merit in that perception is an entirely different discussion.
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True... maybe it's something to with the fact that when I look at some of my old prints, I know it took me all night in a fume-filled cupboard to make it...There's a sense of the journey it took to get there.

Like yesterday I was playing silly-buggers with another driver in a BMW 330 Coupe on the back-roads here in Germany. We seemed very evenly-matched given we were on a public road. I found that to stay on his back-wheel, I had to straight-line it a lot more than he did round the very tight corners, but then thought "hang-on, I built my suspension myself - skinned-knuckles and all: you just collected yours from the dealer and selected 'sport-mode' on the console - so who's actually driving your car...?"

Maybe we think that because there's more of 'us' going into a film-originated image that it's somehow more viable than something we cobble together on a computer screen...?
 
You know what? When I joined this board I was rather excited about photography again. Then I had what can only be called a run in with Damien and Lynton. Following that pointless period I kept myself basically to the 52 threads and the film section as I felt I was safe there. Then the last time (and in fact the time before) I posted a themed image it was slagged off by Lynton and so I have stopped my 52 and pretty much kept to the film section where I knew I'd be safe because Mr Ultra-Modern lookit-my-toys would never lower himself to come in here. I was wrong and the Norfolk mafia jumped in in spades. Looks like I am out of here as well. Sorry guys, it's been fun but there you go.

Arthur
 
Arkady said:
but then thought "hang-on, I built my suspension myself - skinned-knuckles and all: you just collected yours from the dealer and selected 'sport-mode' on the console - so who's actually driving your car...?"
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Thats a very good point, Rob

Come on Arthur, it's fun for most parts around this corner. And its in these times that the 'ignore list ' button comes in handy.

Besides, you still got to finsh building your Pano...I am waiting to place my first order with you :D:D
 
Ambermile said:
You know what? When I joined this board I was rather excited about photography again. Then I had what can only be called a run in with Damien and Lynton. Following that pointless period I kept myself basically to the 52 threads and the film section as I felt I was safe there. Then the last time (and in fact the time before) I posted a themed image it was slagged off by Lynton and so I have stopped my 52 and pretty much kept to the film section where I knew I'd be safe because Mr Ultra-Modern lookit-my-toys would never lower himself to come in here. I was wrong and the Norfolk mafia jumped in in spades. Looks like I am out of here as well. Sorry guys, it's been fun but there you go.

Arthur
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So...someone didn't like one of your images? and some people in Norfolk are odd...

Every time I post an image - not from work - my own stuff; it gets ripped apart... It's almost like people who wouldn't crit my work images because of the subject matter, are just waiting with the knives out for one that's safe to tear into...
It's probably nothing like that at all, but just how I percieve it.

Maybe your perceptions are similar?

Photography is always going to be inhabited by kit-geeks - it's what put me off camera-clubs when I was a teenager - getting sneered-at by blokes who probably didn't even use their cameras didn't really appeal...

You just have look at all the posts relating to the guys at Focus walking round with 300mm lenses off each shoulder to see that the geeks are part of the community whether we like it or not...

As to wierdness in Norfolk, well I've been there... say no more...
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
Oh, and by the way, Arthur's post was about people's reaction to film vs digital cameras; as far as I could tell....:D
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It's there for everyone to see, you were the first to mention anything about a film vs digital debate, no one else! :nono:

You're simply not willing to admit what I see as the truth, or more importantly, properly explain any mistake you claim I've made in missunderstanding you! :shrug:

If people choose to ignore my posts on this forum, that's absolutely fine, I'm no ones lord and master! But I don't think you did ignore me, and I think you're trying to worm you're way out of the fact that you were very rude to me and that it was absolutely un-called for.

It's really sad that you conduct yourself this way on this forum, unless I've completely lost my marbles then I think that people who read this thread can see that what you said in post 11 was a direct reply to me....such a shame you can't just admit it :shake:

No wonder there are so many arguments in this little corner of TP with you around to start them, and if there was ever a good argument to use digital, it's that you use film!! IMO, you have a horrible eliteist luddite attitude towards digital photography that on a mainly digital photography forum, just isn't ever going to go down well....:shake:

Clearly this is futile, so I'll bid you farewell....:wave:
 
Ambermile said:
kept to the film section where I knew I'd be safe because Mr Ultra-Modern lookit-my-toys would never lower himself to come in here.
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See, there you go again - it's no wonder people in this forum have a lack of respect for you. I have digitals and both film cameras but I'm not stuck in some deluded world where I still believe it's 1985 and that film is the be all and end all. I rather wish it were still the nineties but it just ain't going to happen any time soon!
 
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