FAO All Motorsport Photographers

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Dal

Dal

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I don't know if I've had my head in the sand for the last year but I'm sure there are alot more photographers on here this year with a media Pass this year.

I'm massively jealous of this and will beat any of you and steal your pass if the opportunity arises :nuts::lol:.

I'm just wondering how many of the togs on here have media passes. I'd like to congratulate you all on your hard work to getting the pass.

I'm also very grateful that your all offering advice as from the couple of comments on pics from me recently has helped me a hell of alot. I now understand the histrogram lol.

:thumbs:
 
Heck yeah I would sell relatively vital organs to get a Media Pass that would be so cool
 
almost tempted to hand over my next pass in order for a pile of human offal.

However, whilst some circuits a media pass is a definite bonus, most circuits have some really good spots, and you as a spectator are much safer.
 
I can't say since Iv'e got my pass much more work comes my way, although without it for sure theres certain shots you just wouldn't get behind the fence.

A fair few who get the accred begun with supplying freebies for 'grassroots' divisions of motorsport including myself.
 
I think every motorsport tog would love to get their hands on a media pass at some point. I know I would :)
 
andrewc said:
You need the support of a magazine or newspaper editor who will vouch for you, plus PLI insurance and a fondness for early starts and rain.
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says it all really although working for a series/association is another possibility but virtually all have duplicate representatives already
 
Depends on the circuit and the event - a main event like the Moto GP will have a limited number of trackside passes, so they go to the main supports of th eevent (publishing wise) first.

A small, club circuit should be fairly easy to get a trackside pass on...the one Anglesey is a great circuit, and has some stunning backdrops - mountains of Snowdonia!

Try to get some small stuff to show editors first, they will be more disposed to supporting oyu then.

I have given up doing 4 days at GPs (yep, starts on thursday and goes rigyt through to Sunday teatime.....bloody hard work for ONE feature.) I was full time UIM, FIA and FIM accredited (International bodies) - it was fun then, and a bum fight now.

Good luck!
 
Gary-360 said:
So what's the procedure of getting a media pass then?
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Without trying to be sarcastic:

1) Get a commission from a recognised media outlet (newspaper, magazine, PR company) or *perhaps* become an official team photographer.

2) Write to the circuit or race series and tell them that you are bonafide media.

The circuit/race series review your application on the basis of how much value there is to them in having you there and assuming you are valuable enough (ie they are definitely going to get printed publicity) and not out classed by the 2000 journos from national newspapers/tv etc you will get in.

So as you can see, the first stage is the tricky one. You'll need to do a lot of legwork to find a publication that is interested because funnily enough most have someone who's already done exactly the same thing....

Remember too that if its a local publication you score with they aren't going to let you just truck off and do any and everything, you will need a local angle on the story. Working for the Endoftheworld Advertiser isn't going to get you far unless Endoftheworld has a major race circuit on its patch or a series of drivers/riders that come from the godforsaken place. You will still need a reason to be there - that can be circuit location or driver/rider/team home town.

I'll also add... they are unlikely to pay you anything and when you do this its all about working, not having a nice day out taking photos!

So there you go, all of the secrets of how to be a media tog in one post :thumbs:
 
I wish I knew then what I know now.

I can understand (as I was that person too) that the trackside media pass is seen as the holy grail to all riches.

Having spent several years with that "holy grail" around my neck I can say that it's not all you crack it up to be when you haven't got one.

I know some see me as a cynical old fool, but I prefer to see myself as a realist and one with some experience of "the system". It's that experience that means I'm now at home every weekend rather than busting my b****x week in, week out for damn near nothing.

As I've said before, a pat on the back, my name next to my own picture etc doesn't pay my mortgage.......neither did motorsports photography.

Be under absolutely no illusion.......

You will spend most of your time on it.

You will spend most of your money on it.

You will give your work away for nothing.

You will get very little in return apart from your enjoyment of being "on the inside" of your chosen sport and mixing with some very genuine people.

You will get more serious about what you do and want to take it to the next stage.

You will spend even more of your time and money trying to take it to the next stage.

You will give your work away for nothing (again and again).

You will most likely keep a separate job to pay for your jollies trackside which will in turn take it's toll on how you maintain your track life.

If you don't follow this "rule of thumb", you most likely have a shed load of cash in the bank, don't need trackside life for the income and don't need to fight to try and supply your work for a smidgen more than free.

If you go in knowing that you're entering one of the world's newest and easily obtainable commodity markets and keep that mentality, you might survive longer than I did.

I have strong morals, I was brought up with those morals so being leg-lifted week in week out wore thin after a while. If you work very hard you should be rewarded. I'm still searching around my house for the reward for my 6 years of very hard graft. Yes I have the good photos on my hard drive, but I've given up try to sell them now.

I couldn't afford to pay the large sums of money needed to market myself on the whim of possibily turning my sports photography into a career. I called it a day after 6 years of not earning anything but spending a fortune.

If you can afford to do it for longer than that then good luck to you.

I say it like it is. Why blow smoke up someone's rear for them to find what you know. I like to think that some will not see me as the cynic but as someone worth gleaning the odd snippet of useful info from. Like I said at the start. I wish I knew then what I know now. I might have saved myself a lot of angst and disollusionment, but then again, I was fired up so will probably have still stormed in there regardless.

Regards, Guy
 
Other people I've spoken to about motorsports photography have said a similar thing.

Half the problem is amateurs on the other side of the fence willing to give their shots away for a credit to the teams. The teams the don't see why they should pay the pro x amount per shot when they can get it for nothing from an amateur.

What people say about people giving shots away cheapening the whole profession rings true.

I've heard about lots of people walking away from motorsport in the past couple of years because of this.
 
100% agree with Guy.....

I'm doing all that he said!

I have created my own company to earn money from this but it's not earning me much and need a week day job to pay for everything.

The only way that I can see of earning money from motorsport (or any other event), is to do event photography sub contracted to an event photography company providing photos for on site printing, this is where the income will be found.

Magazines don't want to pay because thousands of people are quite happy having their photo/name in print for free.

Teams don't want to pay because of the above.

Promotors don't want to pay because of the above.

If you do get in with a mag or publication and they pay, then you're on a winner but again, they are getting few and far between.

The best way I can see is to become a photo-journalist, where you write a 1000-1500 word review on the weekend, provide 5/6 (or what is required) images and get paid from said mag/publication for a complete article.

Other than that, it's an over-saturated market (of which I am one).

Carl.
 
Big_Ham said:
Half the problem is amateurs on the other side of the fence willing to give their shots away for a credit to the teams. The teams the don't see why they should pay the pro x amount per shot when they can get it for nothing from an amateur.
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It's not really the teams. I don't mind doing deals or freebies for the teams as they provide me with the whole purpose of why I'm there each weekend, with the exhillarating subject matter and why I enjoyed the racing so much.

It's the mags and large corporations who expect you to give your work away that hacked me off. They all made or tried to make money from my work but refused to pay me for it. I said no, so didn't get the work used. When this happened over and over again, I walked away from what I loved doing so much.

The zero payment p***-taking was one reason, the other was me trying to produce the highest quality output I could only to see lower quality work published week-in, week-out because it was free. What does that say about the value of the sport as a whole, sub-standard product being used to promote supposedly the best championship in the world????? I had no motivation whatsover to continue aspiring to greater levels of photography and originality, purely because that's evidently not the driving factor on it being used. It's takes a helluva lot of hard work and commitment to get the shots I did and for what..........snubs because I refused to give it away.


Big_Ham said:
What people say about people giving shots away cheapening the whole profession rings true.
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It's the same for any industry. You can't compete with free when the client pegs your offering at the same level as the free one regardless of what you know as a critical professional isn't a "like for like" comparison. But when you have zillions of willing hopefuls behiind you after your pass, your honourbale stand against exploitation disintegrates.

I know this all might seem a little off-topic from the original post by Dal, but believe me, it's all very, very relevant.

Getting your pass is a big hurdle, but it's only the 2nd step of the ladder after getting your camera. Have a clear understanding of what you aim to achieve and how you aim to achieve it then read what the people who've been there say about life on the inside. Then decide if that's gonna be worth the whole heap of hard work and hassle you're considering letting yourself in for. That's me talking rationally cos I've been there, but people with the carrot dangling in front of their nose aren't entirely rational so I only hope some of my learnings filter down the line and get through the armour plated enthusiasm.

Regards, Guy
 
Big_Ham said:
Half the problem is amateurs on the other side of the fence willing to give their shots away for a credit to the teams. The teams the don't see why they should pay the pro x amount per shot when they can get it for nothing from an amateur.
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And to be honest, this forum shows exactly why - there are some very well equipped and very good "amateurs" on the other side of the fence, who have little difficulty over coming the limitations of their position to turn in some cracking photos.

A lot of the time the only difference between an "amateur" and a media tog is that the latter has worked hard to make some contacts and persued an "in" - because like I said before, thats the hard bit!

Other than being a (typically low) salaried employee of a publication, there is no money in this game, or certainly not enough to ever keep you going! I only know of a couple of people who make anything like a living out of this and they've got there through hard work and luck - because there is only room for a couple of people doing that.
 
you guys are talking alot of sense. I had the deluded thought that getting passes would be the holy grail, but quickly realising what you are wisely pointing out.
 
Personally, I do not do motorsport photography for the money (as you all say, there is not much in it), I do it because I enjoy motorsport and I enjoy photography. Anything I can do to get closer, better angles, better shots, etc I will try and do.

Now a question... I know one of the Time Attack teams quite well and I am sure that I swing the "official team tog" for them, would this be sufficient to get me access, at a track like Brands Hatch?
 
Getting your first pass is a good feeling though! Like passing your driving test, its an achievement, but then you realise there is a lot more that comes with it.

As an ordinary spectator, you can choose where you want to go, what style of shot to take, when to go for a rest, even go home early if you feel like it, or if you're not feeling great to stay at home in bed but now you are working for someone you have to fulfill their needs before your own.

As most motorsport is done over weekends, these outlets you are working for need the shots that night or certainly mid morning the Monday following in order to meet copy deadlines for magazines which are on sale Wednesday / Thursday of that week. If you miss the deadline, your photos aren't used as they're 'old news' and you don't get paid - but you've encountered expenses getting there and back.

Monthlies have a bit more flexibility with time schedules but there are so many events up and down the country that they have limited space and rather than competing for space against one weekends events, you are facing competition from four or five weeks events.
 
grahamc said:
Now a question... I know one of the Time Attack teams quite well and I am sure that I swing the "official team tog" for them, would this be sufficient to get me access, at a track like Brands Hatch?
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Depends entirely on the championship. For things like BSB, being an official team tog doesn't guarantee you a media pass whereas at a smaller less high profile event it could get you dinner with the queen.

Like any form of sport though, if you kiss enough of the right ar$e$ or you have your nose in the right crack, you can get anywhere with any level of skill/equipment. I saw people with media passes at BSB with Argos snappy instamatics. You're not telling me they were there becuase of their photography skills and media acumen.

I don't kiss ar$e, I give respect to those who deserve it so that's no doubt where I went wrong :D
 
CopeImages said:
Depends entirely on the championship. For things like BSB, being an official team tog doesn't guarantee you a media pass whereas at a smaller less high profile event it could get you dinner with the queen.

Like any form of sport though, if you kiss enough of the right ar$e$ or you have your nose in the right crack, you can get anywhere with any level of skill/equipment. I saw people with media passes at BSB with Argos snappy instamatics. You're not telling me they were there becuase of their photography skills and media acumen.

I don't kiss ar$e, I give respect to those who deserve it so that's no doubt where I went wrong :D
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I meant for the TimeAttack event only...

Oh well, its worth an attempt I suppose, whats the worst that can happen?!?!
 
Graham - if you don't ask you definitely don't get!!!
 
Graham - MSV will ask for a letter of accreditation from the

MSV said:
editor or director of a recognised publication / agency / media organisation relating to the specific event (without this the application will not be considered) and;

two examples of published work either from this year or 2008; and

signed declaration and acknowledgement as set out on this form
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They'll need this by mid day latest of the Monday of the week before the event.
 
CopeImages said:
Depends entirely on the championship. For things like BSB, being an official team tog doesn't guarantee you a media pass whereas at a smaller less high profile event it could get you dinner with the queen.

Like any form of sport though, if you kiss enough of the right ar$e$ or you have your nose in the right crack, you can get anywhere with any level of skill/equipment. I saw people with media passes at BSB with Argos snappy instamatics. You're not telling me they were there becuase of their photography skills and media acumen.

I don't kiss ar$e, I give respect to those who deserve it so that's no doubt where I went wrong :D
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andrewc said:
Graham - MSV will ask for a letter of accreditation from the



They'll need this by mid day latest of the Monday of the week before the event.
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Even for an event like TimeAttack? And being a team photographer?

Going to ask anyway... Who knows, might be able to get pics published by the time they are next at Brands :) Definitely WILL try though, worst they can do is say no.
 
I've tried this before and come up with nothing. Even for track days they are unwilling to let you venture track-side, and are very unhelpful when it comes to getting more information!

I got to the point where they agreed to allow me track side as long as I agreed never to publish my photographs for profit, and that I had the express permission of the hired company (BritishSportPhotography) who were there to sell their images (plus all the usual PLI etc).

The first part was fine, as I didn't ever plan to sell them.
The second part - well after sending emails and letters it looks like BSP just don't want to even bother replying. It's a shame because this really is a hobby for me so it's not like there would be any competition, but it seems I've just reached a dead end with trying to get on the other side of the fence.
 
Lots of very sound advice being offered here. :thumbs:

I had never considered doing this kind of photography for a living, but I was lucky enough to be offered a media pass through a friend who was a well connected driver's manager in the FIA GT championship, a good few years ago. I attended a few races, had a great time shooting from the other side of the fence, in the paddock/pits etc and met some fantastic people.

However, similar to the excellent advice offered here, I spent one very valuable lunchtime with a seasoned motorsport tog who bascially told me straight how blooming hard it is to make decent money. I really felt for him, his work was awesome, but even he was considering packing it in to do weddings! :( As he said, "A love of the sport does not pay my mortgage, and I can only see it getting worse..." He was bang on it seems.

I respect anyone who has the drive to do it, (no pun intended,) but please keep your eyes wide open with regard to making a living from it, especially today...
 
There are several different things being discussed here...

There is a big difference between shooting for newspapers etc at a race meeting vs selling images and then track days are different again. The sting comes in the commercial rights to the event. Just having media access **doesn't** allow you to sell images and with track days, there is not even media coverage to be had - there's no story about a bunch of folks paying to play at a motor racing circuit!

Remember also there is a further difference between accreditation for a single event (that you need a story about) and having accreditation for a race series (eg BSB or BTCC etc).

You need to get all of these differences straight in your mind...
 
I think some people see a media pass as a right - if you buy camera x, and spend enough time at a circuit you will be given one, and can then roam free around the circuit doing exactly as you please. I think for most it's seen as the easiest way to get better shots of the cars on track.

As a full time motorsport snapper, I can tell you there is a lot more to it than that, and track photos are often of limited importance compared to the other stuff you have to do. I'm at the A1GP this weekend, and our brief runs to several pages!
 
This has turned into an extremely useful thread. It's not what I entended at all from my original post.

Here's another question then for the media pass togs.

Do you prefer taking photo's for a magazine/publisher etc, for a team, or for yourself (even if this meant being on the public side of the fence)

The reason I ask is that I've managed to make contact with a racing team and have offered to supply photo's for their use only (they are very interested in this). So I wouldnt be working for a magazine and wouldn't be required to give up all of my spare time and I can carry on my full time job aswell.

I'm not bothered about earning any money from this as I enjoy it so much and would be happy to keep it as my hobby rather than a job.

I have other ideas for earning some money in the future from photography.

Would you say this is the better Idea? I really like the idea of getting shots for a team and hopefully building up a good relationship with them.

I do need to look into Public Liability Insurance though and some other bits and bobs.
 
Well, its a good idea to limit your activities to what you can afford the time and money to achieve... if thats what you mean, then yes, this is probably a good idea.

Depending on the race series, that may or may not secure you some trackside action...
 
Dal said:
This has turned into an extremely useful thread. It's not what I entended at all from my original post.

Here's another question then for the media pass togs.

Do you prefer taking photo's for a magazine/publisher etc, for a team, or for yourself (even if this meant being on the public side of the fence)
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I always preferred taking pics for myself. I don't think there's any better thing because YOU are the client, YOU are the decision maker on what's important and YOU can go where you want and take what you want when YOU want to.

Working for other people, means you have to take what they want, when they want it and at their price. I hated taking pictures of signs and hoardings with blurred bikes in front but that's what paid as that's what the client wanted.

Working for yourself means you can use all of your imagination and skill to seek out the shots that "float your boat". You can test yourself and your knowledge of your equipmewnt to the limit. The real downside to that (which I found out) is that those shots often don't sell, but if you aint interested in the cash aspect of sport snapping then you're alright Dal.

Be aware that working for someone else means that you might well be taken away from the action you actually aimed to get closer to (e.g Photographing spectators in the car parks whilst the racing's going on - not very thrilling).

Team work is second best. As you're taking shots for the team, and for all intents and purposes, working for the team, then you are often treated as part of the team.

Being a part of a close-knit team is like being part of a family and there's no better place to be. If you can get media access as a team snapper and you aren't interested in making any money then I'd take their hand off if you've been offered it.

Regards, Guy
 
I like motorsport and photography so i attend what i can afford and enjoy what i do. I do now a few teams that have approached me over the last couple of seasons, and made some good freinds.

As for wanting media accred, would be nice just for an experiance, but i dont really have the time to really chase that up, particularly due to the lack of money, and the fact you end up being tied to get what the publication wants. And based on that i wouldnt say i was actually any good at doing that, have no idea about portrait shots, cant stand doing static either.

So quite happy doing what i is doing.
 
Just be careful, because somewhere like Brands, being a paying spectator has the same restrictions on sale of images in just the same way as a media tog does (in fact most times its EXACTLY the same T&C's).

As for doing things that the publication want vs what you want... yes, definitely true. However, thats not to say there isn't time to have a little play - maybe not with the headline race, but certainly with support or practice day :D
 
While I dont do any track stuff at all I do a fair bit of rally photography. I dont like having to actually take shots for anybody as usually it's pretty boring and remedial and there is less photographing cars than there is photographing other more boring things.

I've taken a bit of a break this year and having went to anywhere near the same amount of events. I only went to my 2nd event yesterday for this year and I think doing so helps my photography as I actually enjoy it more.

I've also seen a lot of people who seem to think that once they get a good camera and go to a few events that they deserve media access. I've taken pictures a few times at rallying with media accredation which leaves you much more open to choice of places than media access at a track. I've seen what it takes to make a job of it and quite frankly it doesnt interest me at all, I'll stick to taking pictures of what I want when I want with no pressure to even take the camera out of the bag if I couldnt be bothered some day.
 
Yeah, that why i have never sold anything, and far point asuming you get the chance to actually shoot the other races.

Dont you need to buy a seperate license to sell images to the public?
 
To sell images to ANYONE you need a commercial photography licence AFAIK.

Providing images to the media for news reporting is allowed (either side of the fence) and they may pay you for those (I assume), everything else is commercial IMHO.

Thats how I read it from MSV and operate by it.

And yes, from 3 days of BSB, there is plenty of time to experiment with some shots I know for sure my commissioning editor won't want at all :D
 
desantnik said:
To sell images to ANYONE you need a commercial photography licence AFAIK.

Providing images to the media for news reporting is allowed (either side of the fence) and they may pay you for those (I assume), everything else is commercial IMHO.

Thats how I read it from MSV and operate by it.

And yes, from 3 days of BSB, there is plenty of time to experiment with some shots I know for sure my commissioning editor won't want at all :D
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Yeah that is what i meant, never was any good at putting things in print, hence i wouldnt make a jurno.

You sound quite lucky on that front then, as i know some-one covering the rounds (only no by face) that only ever gets on track for the main BSB practice and races, the rest of his time is taken up doing other things.
 
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