FAO All Motorsport Photographers

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dal
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the new price covers costs, but I am also allowed to sell the competitors prints or CDs.

What was nice is that the series had 4 journalists from different magazines all competing against each other, which meant 4 mags buying pics from the same event. Ker-ching...
 
I’ve sent images off at about 7pm on a raceday and have never had a response.

I dunno if I’m sending them to the wrong people or not though.

I’m glad I started this thread as it seems like it’s become very helpful to not only myself but to others aswell.
 
You'd have to be pretty quick off of the mark to be honest.... at most of the major events there are people with laptops and internet connections firing these things off minutes after they capture them.

Like a lot of things to do with making money out of motorsport photography, its a lot of effort to succeed - far, far, far more than just going out on the track and taking some photos.
 
If i sent them just a watermarked thumbnail would that be wasting time, as i would have to wait for a reply, then send a full file or would they see my thumbnail and then agree to buy the full image?

For yourself and Dal Oakey, you have to contact the publications in advance and get the names of the people dealing with photo submissions. You then speak to them direct and find out where you submit your images, how, in what format, by when, with what if any editing, etc etc. You also discuss at this stage your terms should they use a pic. I say discuss......it's normally them telling you what, if anything, they pay.

That way you're not friggin about in the media centre after you've captured said suitable shots. You have everything you need before you get to that stage. I had all my accompanying submission emails saved as drafts in outlook beofre I left for a meeting. The details and FTP or email addresses for each publication were saved in my Outlook contacts ready.

The difficult bit is getting to speak to the person you need to because, if they don't know you they're less likely to take your call and give out their direct email addy (did I tell you this was a not what you know, but who you know game!!!!!!!!).

The next bit is then sending off your shots, hoping, praying they use them...

The next bit is then finding out some days, weeks, months later that the publication has used your shots but can't be ferkin bothered with the courtesy to tell you they've used them.

The next bit is then "hawking" around the paddock with your shots from the last round or your laptop with shots from this round hoping to get any here and there sales from competitors because you can't rely on the mags to pick your shot/s from all the hundreds they get after the meeting, but you don't really have time to do "hawking" because you're sorting and editing, keywording (as Desantnik and badgerbaiter says) your 2000+ shots on your laptop.

Are you getting the picture (pardon the pun) why I quit......:suspect::( All that effort and cost for a measly £50 shot in a mag if you're very lucky isn't worth it.

I'll say it again, to get half decent shots is not just about the kit, it's about all the effort, homework, skill and knowledge you put in yourself.

To then get frigged around, ripped off, taken for a ride or to get home in negative equity having missed all the racing cos your were concentrating on 'working' makes it blatantly obvious why there's not many long termers out there, it's all new people who haven't yet lost that blinkered enthusiasm or been shafted 100's of times that the motivation is battered out of them.

Once again, I don't want to pee on anyone's parade etc, I just feel it's morally right that people know what they're in for before they decide to take the next very expensive, and time consuming step to taking it seriously.

Guy
 
Once again, I don't want to pee on anyone's parade etc, I just feel it's morally right that people know what they're in for before they decide to take the next very expensive, and time consuming step to taking it seriously.

I would agree with that.

You've basically got to be realistic and realise that the chances of getting paid are extremely slight.
Without it meaning to sound like a cliché 'dont give up your day job'. Make sure you still have a proper job to fall back on.

Also, be aware that motorsport isnt in the real world. Its full of even more ********ters and people with their head in the clouds.
 
As an MSA accredited journalist/photographer I can tell you it is not really worth the hassle of jumping through hoops to get a media pass. Since I became accredited there has been maybe one or two time it has allowed me to do anything different from just being a spectator.

As for Motorsport Photography, there is no money in doing it and as Gary has explained when you see the time spent after an event working on photos and sorting everything out you would be better off not doing it at all. This week I have spent 2 days sorting out images from an event for the people I work for and it is not fun but it has to be done.

So if you enjoy taking photographs at motorsport events then stick with but only if you enjoy it and be happy if you get asked for images after the event and don't be afraid to charge for them as at the end of the day why should you pay for your own images.


Just my thoughts.
 
Togging is a hobby to me, and I'm not sure I actually want to turn it into a job.

Nail on the head, in my opinion.

I flirted with the idea last year as I was/am getting a heck of a lot of interest in my photos after events (drivers, teams, sponsors etc finding my pics and contacting me asking to buy them) and could have probably started getting media access without too much trouble, but after speaking to a few guys here and elsewhere I decided it was definitely not for me. I don't regret the decision, cast a critical eye over much of the published work and it's hardly inspiring stuff - I know the pros can and do take far more interesting shots, but the standard 'here is the race winner we're discussing driving around the track' shot gets used in print an awful lot, even if absolutely basic things that would be mentioned in the Motorsport sharing forum in an instant are 'wrong' with the shot, like a panning shot with absolutely no sense of movement in it. Have a nosey at the Castle Combe shots in Autosport this week, it would take two minutes to find 'better' shots online.

For me - and I suspect quite a few of the amateurs here - motorsport photography is a fantastic weekend escape from the 9-5 grind, to go along to an event and shoot freely with no shot list/agenda or the stress of getting what somebody else might want should not be ignored lightly.

Apart from some of the amazing low angles that the pros come up with that are simply impossible for us 'regular folk', there really isn't that much in it at many circuits, especially if you are willing to shoot creatively and think outside of the box (last season I got some shots at Brands that an accredited tog refused to believe were from a public position, he honestly believed I jumped the fence)
 
Hey guys, I am new here, this is my first post. :wave:

Can I just say on the whole what the accredited photographers have said is spot on. I have had trackside access for over 15 years.

Basically, it isn't easy getting accredited, it isn't easy getting people to publish your stuff and majority of the time, it isn't easy getting people to pay.

Just getting a letter is not enough, you need stuff published. And it is very hard work!

It all depends on your attitude towards the work and your love of the job.

Some people sit back and wait for the work to come to them and complain they haven't got any work and there are some that go looking for it.

The former will get nowhere, but most of the latter will continue, again not all.

I must be bucking the trend... This year again, I am earning money at most of the events I am doing. :thumbs:

BTW, 75% of the images posted on this forum, as good as they are, would not be the images most newspapers would publish!
 
Hey guys, I am new here, this is my first post. :wave:

Peter,

Nice to find you on here.

Guys, listen to Peter. I have known him for a couple of years and he definitely knows what he is talking about. I remember shooting alongside him at a BTCC event at Rockingham in 2007 at what was one of my first times out with a media pass. He really knows his stuff.

Regards

Tim
 
Togging is a hobby to me, and I'm not sure I actually want to turn it into a job.

exactly same for me...

only reason i would want a media pass, is to beable to get shot's from where you'd not normally be able to spectating...


i like to watch the race & grab quite a few snaps, dont think i'd enjoy snapping all the time, without a little brake just to watch for a bit
 
only reason i would want a media pass, is to beable to get shot's from where you'd not normally be able to spectating...

Which is exactly what we're all saying its NOT about.

The only reason to want/need/get a media pass is to be taking photos for the media for promoting the event/circuit/series...
 
Which is exactly what we're all saying its NOT about.

The only reason to want/need/get a media pass is to be taking photos for the media for promoting the event/circuit/series...

or a team, which is the route I'm trying to take.

If I can get my uni work done this weekend then I'll be heading to thruxton this weekend to meet up with the team :)
 
Hi there, great thread, useful info on here too. I like many would love to have a media pass, in 2007 I went to motorsport every weekend, and I think my shots improved throughout the season, but work intervened last year so didn't get to do much at all.

BTW, 75% of the images posted on this forum, as good as they are, would not be the images most newspapers would publish!

I think what PDS says here also nails another aspect on the head, as I say I think my photos improved throughout 2007, had some shots I was really really pleased with, even stuck them all in a book which everyone I show is impressed with (I guess they would as they are freinds of mine), but they're in no way the same league as the truly succesful motor sport photographers. There's a couple of peoples photos I see on here that I think are truly great and usually thats becuase they are different and creative, not just a picture of a car or bike thats nicely focused and showing good amout of speed, there's another dimension to their shots. And these guys I think could get those shots whatever side of the fence they're on as they're thinking differently to most, and its different shots that get published these days.

For me, I'm going to get back to it, from the spectator side of the fence and experiment to try and find those different shots, when I can do this over and over again then maybe that will be the time to go out and make some effort, but I'm along way from that.
 
The type of shots depends on the publication to be honest. There is no hard and fast rule about what is "printable".

If you are shooting for an article on Lewis Hamilton, you want shots of just him. If its about F1 in general, it wants to be as much of F1 as you can get in the frame. If its about the French Grand Prix, you want things that show its France. If its for the local rag, you want to show how popular the event was etc etc etc

Oh and when you get your brief, that is what you shoot - its becomes all consuming and you probably ignore the rest (unless you decide to do every day of the event to get some "play time").

Being in the right place at the right time dominates your time, no just wandering around looking for interesting things to shoot! That endless day at the races becomes condensed into a madcap dash of targets to hit...

Great eh?
 
i can only add my twopence worth as a magazine man

there is money in it for sure but of late there has been a lot of people forcing their way in working for nothing hoping to get a foot hold
clearly this approach doesn't work and really when you sit back and think ...it never will

usually a mag or publication will already have a contracted snapper at the event
ie; he is being paid to be there so his work will get used unless he has missed something really special

if you do send your pics in for consideration i would do several things to make them stand out from the dross that normally arrives in editors in boxes

for starters make sure they are in focus when viewed at 100% in p/shop etc
no exceptions (remember pros are the ones that delete their crap and amateurs put everything in an album for viewing later)

then make sure the pic hasnt been had at in any way shape or form with sharpening and other such PS manipulation (magazines print at very high levels of detail so any shenanigans will mean the pic can be useless further down the line)

then try to supply the sort of images that a magazine already uses so lots of close up action

thats about it really.... make the editors job easy and you will get work
 
mmmmm, kick in the balls for me now.

I've been in contact with a team for a while and they have asked what needs to go on the letter to Motorsport vision along with the application form.

I've called Motorsport Vision and the lady I spoke to said that they don't allow team snappers which is the complete opposite to what I was told when I last contacted them.

Looks like I'll be going to Oulton Park and staying on the public side of the fence.

It's a great shame as the team are doing really well and really need some high res shots.

I feel a bit bummed out now really as I've been working on this for a while and was really looking forward to it.
 
Thats right just being a team snapper isnt enough
last year you had to have a letter or two from editor/s of a publication saying they were using your work
i imagine its the same or harder this season

there wont be any shortage of togs on the other side of the fence offering pics to "your" team
 
I'm relatively new to this - I started last year and have done about 5 or 6 BTCC meets so far. I'm quite happy on the "other side of the fence", but it is frustrating when there's a whopping great mesh in the way. I love the sport and I love the freedom. I just worry that someday it'll get restricted to agency and official togs in the same way football is :(

And is there anything more irritating than some spotty kid barely out of school walking around with an orange bib, couple of D3's - and lenses I'd have to remortgage my house for? ;) :D
 
Lol well this thread has certainley dashed my dreams.... am I right in thinking that as a result of this thread, you are able to sell your images even as a spectator as long as your not soliciting during the event itself...any sales subsequent to the meeting are allowed??

Im just at the begining of venturing into the world of motorsport photography, I didnt expect accreditation/media passes to be easy to come by...but to be told by seasoned veterans its generally a pointless carrear, is somewhat more depressing.

Is it possible that like every one seems to agree that there are just so many of us that the market is oversaturated?, surely this would mean that creativity should seperate the wheat from the chaff?

these publication must be in competition with one another so you would hope they would vie for the best photos to inturn set them apart?

sigh maybe im living in a dream world where its not all about money... but there are so many magazines out there that offer somthing different in terms of photography/design to add value to their publication.

maybe we are just at a low point generally for motorsport and it will pick up giving quality provenence over price. (lets hope so):'(
 
I'm be no means an expert in this field but for it to be succesfull does it not need to be profitable?

Problem is every man and his dog now seems to have a DSLR and zoom lens capable of taking half decent piccys and giving them away for free (i don't fit into this section - my piccys aren't half decent - there crap)

If Mr Media Trackpass comes along and offers you pistures that would be slighlty better and for small price which one would you take?

I suppose you would have to be ****ing awesome at motorsport photography to stand any chance at all...

I'm probably wrong though! :(
 
There are other reasons for limiting "press" passes,there is only so many togs that can be accommodated on the track. A lot of areas on tracks are considered "no go" even with a pass. Too many togs in any one area makes it more dangerous for the marshals to do there job. Most importantly togs trackside need to keep there wits about them, not get too engrossed in getting that perfect picture. Cars/bikes etc. can come off at some very funny places.

Another thing to remember is trackside togs can not move around as freely as a spectator side tog.
 
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