Don't Buy a 50mm Lens For Portraits.

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DaydreamJay

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I thought I'd make a post about this subject as it seems I wasted £300 on a lens that doesn't do the job I expected. Many people recommend 50mm lenses for portraits but even on a crop sensor they are too wide angle. They are ok for shots taken from a few metres back, but get in close for a full face portrait and you will distort the features, usually the nose. I discovered this at my cost when I bought the Pentax SMC FA 50mm 1.4 which has virtually zero distortion. The problem isn't distortion however, it's perspective and it will happen with any lens.

You can see the effect if you close one eye and point an index finger directly at it from arms length, you will see the tip of the finger but also the sides of it going towards the base as the finger is tapered. If you move the finger closer to your eye you will notice that you can no longer see the sides, just the tip. This is the same distortion effect you will get when sticking a lens really close in on a model.

I still use my 50mm lens for portraits but I have to remember to not get too close so it is limited in what I can do. You really need a 85mm (on full frame sensor) to get the best portraits and a lot of the top pros will use this sort of focal lens for close in shots. Clive Booth is one example, check out the link below.

I am in no way saying that a 50mm lens cannot produce fantastic portraits because it can, but if you are about to invest in a lens specifically for portraits then you may be well advised to divert the cash to something a little less wide angle. To reiterate, the 50mm is not that far from being ideal when on a crop sensor as it equates to 75mm which is only 10mm from the optimum but that small difference will make close up shots distorted.

I hope this info is of help to people as I wish I had been told this before I invested in incorrect equipment :)

http://www.professionalphotographer...f-a-Pro/Dispatches-Working-with-hair-stylists

I will post some examples of the perspective distortion if required.
 
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DaydreamJay said:
I thought I'd make a post about this subject as it seems I wasted £300 on a lens that doesn't do the job I expected. Many people recommend 50mm lenses for portraits but even on a crop sensor they are too wide angle. They are ok for shots taken from a few metres back, but get in close for a full face portrait and you will distort the features, usually the nose. I discovered this at my cost when I bought the Pentax SMC FA 50mm 1.4 which has virtually zero distortion. The problem isn't distortion however, it's perspective and it will happen with any lens.

You can see the effect if you close one eye and point an index finger directly at it from arms length, you will see the tip of the finger but also the sides of it going towards the base as the finger is tapered. If you move the finger closer to your eye you will notice that you can no longer see the sides, just the tip. This is the same distortion effect you will get when sticking a lens really close in on a model.

I still use my 50mm lens for portraits but I have to remember to not get too close so it is limited in what I can do. You really need a 85mm (on full frame sensor) to get the best portraits and a lot of the top pros will use this sort of focal lens for close in shots. Clive Booth is one example, check out the link below.

I am in no way saying that a 50mm lens cannot produce fantastic portraits because it can, but if you are about to invest in a lens specifically for portraits then you may be well advised to divert the cash to something a little less wide angle. To reiterate, the 50mm is not that far from being ideal when on a crop sensor as it equates to 75mm which is only 10mm from the optimum but that small difference will make close up shots distorted.

I hope this info is of help to people as I wish I had been told this before I invested in incorrect equipment :)

http://www.professionalphotographer...f-a-Pro/Dispatches-Working-with-hair-stylists

I will post some examples of the perspective distortion if required.
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50mm is great for waist shots etc which are what most portraits are, 85mm are used for the headshots that's why you're getting the distortion etc because you're literally using the wrong lens for the job. There's nowt wrong with the 50mm it's just like saying "I'm trying to shoot wildlife at 200mm" when it should be 300mm, it's just a little bit wider than what you require.
 
A portrait can be a lot more than just a head shot Important to recognise the difference. You can do loads of great portraits with a 50mm. For head shots something between 85 and 105 is about right. Where did you get your advice from?
 
mastertrinity said:
50mm is great for waist shots etc which are what most portraits are, 85mm are used for the headshots that's why you're getting the distortion etc because you're literally using the wrong lens for the job.
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I think you'll find that I did say that. My point being that if one were to invest in a lens solely for portrait use (as I did,) it would not be a 50mm.
 
It still depends on what you define as a portrait though.
 
awp said:
A portrait can be a lot more than just a head shot Important to recognise the difference. You can do loads of great portraits with a 50mm. For head shots something between 85 and 105 is about right. Where did you get your advice from?
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A lecturer at college told me when I asked him why some of my close in shots were getting distorted. I am at Wheelwright college which is quite famous for photography, we get guest lecturers in all the time, we have Martin Parr next week. I just thought I'd pass the info on :-)
 
DaydreamJay said:
it equates to 75mm which is only 10mm from the optimum

I will post some examples of the perspective distortion if required.
Click to expand...


There is no 'optimum' IMHO, you'll get perspective distortion no matter if you use a 17mm or a 1700mm lens, it's a given that longer equates to flatter perspective but it all depends how much room you have especially if you're in a home studio for instance. People have used a 50mm on film(full frame) for a long time with good results.
 
DaydreamJay said:
They are ok for shots taken from a few metres back, but get in close for a full face portrait and you will distort the features, usually the nose. I discovered this at my cost when I bought the Pentax SMC FA 50mm 1.4 which has virtually zero distortion. The problem isn't distortion however, it's perspective and it will happen with any lens..
Click to expand...

How close are we talking? This was taking with a 'fiddy' and uncropped.

3583059186_4e9ab91006_z.jpg
 
DaydreamJay said:
I think you'll find that I did say that. My point being that if one were to invest in a lens solely for portrait use (as I did,) it would not be a 50mm.
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That is down to preference i.e style. You find 50mm too wide for portrait use however others may find that perfect e.g me it really is all down to your style of shooting.
 
mastertrinity said:
That is down to preference i.e style. You find 50mm too wide for portrait use however others may find that perfect e.g me it really is all down to your style of shooting.
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If you never wish to take a full frame portrait of someones face and simply take torso shots then a 50mm isn't too bad.
 
I don't get this. You mean any portrait I take on my 50mm will render the subject horrifically deformed? Can't believe that I spent all that time doing a BA Hons to not be told this. Mind you, I didn't go to Wheelright..... ;)

Seriously though, is this for real? You've stated:

.... a portrait is a reproduction of a persons image that portrays in some way their personality or mood or even profession. It can be full length or just a face.
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...you can use ANY lens you want for a portrait, just depends on what look you want and what you want to convey. I've seen amazing stuff done on ultra-wides, in the same way I've seen great stuff done on long telephotos.
 
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For headshots, 85mm/1.8 on 7D and 135/2 on 5D.. The 85/1.8 is a good value and can be had easily for £300.

Nothing wrong with the 50mm for a waist up shots on APS-C or even full body shots of couples on full frame if you have 4-5 meters to work with. They're portraits too ;)
 
specialman said:
I don't get this. You mean any portrait I take on my 50mm will render the subject horrifically deformed?
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Where did I say that?

FFS you try to make a constructive post on here and people suddenly lose the ability to discuss and debate. Small wonder that proper photographers don't use the site.
 
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DaydreamJay said:
Where did I say that?

FFS you try to make a constructive post on here and people suddenly lose the ability to discuss and debate. Small wonder that proper photographers don't use the site.
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For one thing, don't start throwing comments about 'proper photographers' around as if you're a step or two above everyone else... after all, you're on here using this site like everyone else:thinking: and for another, the winking emoticon (;)) means i'm jesting. Chill out or i'll show you some portraits on a 14mm that'll make your eyes water....



;););););)
 
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specialman said:
For one thing, don't start throwing comments about 'proper photographers' around as if you're a step or two above everyone else... after all, you're on here using this site like everyone else:thinking: and for another, the winking emoticon (;)) means i'm jesting. Chill out....
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I am nowhere near being a step above anyone! I am merely regurgitating stuff from a lecture that I found useful and that explained some of the results I was getting. I don't mean to come across as a know-it-all as I am far from that :lol:
 
I don't see anything distorted about the second image, the focal distance might give the illusion of it though. Or maybe I should go to Specsavers

And you might wanna take it easy on that horse of yours. It looks a little high and we don't want you falling off of it.
 
Just because a photo is 'distorted' doesn't make it an inherently bad photo - even if it's a portrait. You could use a 28mm or wider and create a great portrait. It's not the lens that sees the photo...;)
 
2Thumbs said:
I don't see anything distorted about the second image, the focal distance might give the illusion of it though. Or maybe I should go to Specsavers

And you might wanna take it easy on that horse of yours. It looks a little high and we don't want you falling off of it.
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The second image is distorted, take another look at the nose.

And as per the post above, I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, it's just that I have had good info from this site and had an opportunity to give some back after a lecture the other day.
 
DaydreamJay said:
The second image is distorted, take another look at the nose.
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That's what I was talking about. Hence the OOF comment.

Also you mention about the perception of people not realising that the image is distorted because they've never meet the person. You then went on to say that the photo I posted was distorted having never met the subject...

Her noes is that big. ;)
 
DaydreamJay said:
My point being that the times you didn't want distortion you'd be screwed :)
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Think yerself lucky. When I was a student a 50mm lens was all I had - and I had to focus the b****r myself!

Youths today don't know they're born... :D
 
2Thumbs said:
That's what I was talking about. Hence the OOF comment.

Also you mention about the perception of people not realising that the image is distorted because they've never meet the person. You then went on to say that the photo I posted was distorted having never met the subject...

Her noes is that big. ;)
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I said it was distorted as you stated it was taken with a 50mm and it wasn't cropped. Unless you are operating in a different dimension or bending the laws of physics it will be distorted and I do not need to know the person who the photo is of :-)
 
Ed Sutton said:
Think yerself lucky. When I was a student a 50mm lens was all I had - and I had to focus the b****r myself!

Youths today don't know they're born... :D
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As it happens I have just bought an old 50mm manual lens and also a manual 70-150mm, both lens for £40. I can do manual focus if it means saving a few hundred quid :D
 
DO use the 50mm for portraits, but PREFERABLY not for headshots - would be a better title.

Portraits isn't solely headshots as you know I'm sure....

Give me a 200mm f2 for headshots, now we're talkin'

For cropped, personally, 35mm full length, 50mm torso, 85mm headshots suit me.
 
DaydreamJay said:
As it happens I have just bought an old 50mm manual lens and also a manual 70-150mm, both lens for £40. I can do manual focus if it means saving a few hundred quid :D
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Wait until you're old and eyes go. Then you'll say different!
bawl.gif
 
there is no optimum but I always read that 120-140 is preffered for headshot distance which is why they recommend the 85mm on a crop sensor??

and as for wishing you had been told before investing, you seem to be capable of using the internet surely you could have read up on what is preferred before purchase?

I probably sound harsh but it just sounds like you jumped in without getting all the pros and cons..


DaydreamJay said:
To reiterate, the 50mm is not that far from being ideal when on a crop sensor as it equates to 75mm which is only 10mm from the optimum but that small difference will make close up shots distorted.

I hope this info is of help to people as I wish I had been told this before I invested in incorrect equipment :)
Click to expand...
 
strumstrum said:
there is no optimum but I always read that 120-140 is preffered for headshot distance which is why they recommend the 85mm on a crop sensor??

and as for wishing you had been told before investing, you seem to be capable of using the internet surely you could have read up on what is preferred before purchase?

I probably sound harsh but it just sounds like you jumped in without getting all the pros and cons..
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On the contrary I did research before I bought the lens, just not thoroughly enough. Had I understood perspective distortion beforehand I would have bought a different lens. Nobody is born with this knowledge and as there are so many about swearing by 50mm lenses for portraits I thought I had better report my findings.
 
You seem to be talking rubbish. You are implying in your first couple of posts that 50mm is too short for portraits because of the distortion, but then say on crop it's equivalent to 75mm so it's better as it's closer to the optimum of 85+mm.

You fail to realise that the distortion is down to the actual focal length, and the distortion will be there whether you are using the 50mm on a FX or DX body and the "equivalent" focal length is meaningless when it comes to distortion.
 
redddraggon said:
You fail to realise that the distortion is down to the actual focal length, and the distortion will be there whether you are using the 50mm on a FX or DX body and the "equivalent" focal length is meaningless when it comes to distortion.
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You're wrong. Perspective distortion is down to how near you are to the subject.
 
redddraggon said:
You seem to be talking rubbish. You are implying in your first couple of posts that 50mm is too short for portraits because of the distortion, but then say on crop it's equivalent to 75mm so it's better as it's closer to the optimum of 85+mm.
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I think you misread what I wrote, or at least misunderstood. The wiki article probably explains it better than I have.
 
DaydreamJay said:
On the contrary I did research before I bought the lens, just not thoroughly enough. Had I understood perspective distortion beforehand I would have bought a different lens. Nobody is born with this knowledge and as there are so many about swearing by 50mm lenses for portraits I thought I had better report my findings.
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But a 50mm lens IS good for portraits...

Portraiture is a whole genre of photography,and it can be shot with any lens depending on which results are your intention.

Your "findings" are not findings. They are a complete misunderstanding of what portraiture is?!
 
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