Don't Buy a 50mm Lens For Portraits.

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DaydreamJay said:
For further info on this issue or basically if you just think I'm talking garbage check out this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)
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Well it must be true if its on Wikipedia...:shrug:

Whoever said some barely perceptible distortion matters? Who said a portrait is bad just because it's not 100% exactly the same as a human eye sees it? If that were the case then there are a hell of a lot of people out there making 'wrong' pictures.

Or you could just be talking out of your proverbial :thumbs:
It doesn't MATTER!

And I am sorry but there are MANY 'proper photographers' who use this site. By definition, that'd be all of us :wave:
 
DaydreamJay said:
You're wrong. Perspective distortion is down to how near you are to the subject.
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Dont stand so close then. I don't understand why you are making such a big deal out of this.
 
DaydreamJay said:
You're wrong. Perspective distortion is down to how near you are to the subject.
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DaydreamJay said:
I think you misread what I wrote, or at least misunderstood. The wiki article probably explains it better than I have.
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I think I may have misunderstood. But I still think you are talking *******s ;)

If the picture looks OK, who cares about a bit of distortion.
 
CSB said:
Dont stand so close then. I don't understand why you are making such a big deal out of this.
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If I didn't stand so close I wouldn't get the right crop. It's a fixed focal length.
 
Ste Manns said:
Well it must be true if its on Wikipedia...:shrug:

Whoever said some barely perceptible distortion matters? Who said a portrait is bad just because it's not 100% exactly the same as a human eye sees it? If that were the case then there are a hell of a lot of people out there making 'wrong' pictures.

Or you could just be talking out of your proverbial :thumbs:
It doesn't MATTER!

And I am sorry but there are MANY 'proper photographers' who use this site. By definition, that'd be all of us :wave:
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Which part of the wiki article is incorrect?

Personally I think that distortion does matter, I realised it was happening in my photos long ago but I never knew why. If I could see it then so could the model who may be a customer. Now that I have found out I was wanting to share the knowledge. Quite wish I hadn't bothered now.
 
DaydreamJay said:
If I didn't stand so close I wouldn't get the right crop. It's a fixed focal length.
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Then YOU have the wrong lens for what YOU want to achieve. That doesn't mean everyone else has the wrong lens as different people will want different outcomes. There is more than one way to take a portrait!
 
redddraggon said:
I think I may have misunderstood. But I still think you are talking *******s ;)

If the picture looks OK, who cares about a bit of distortion.
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Well if a photo looks OK then by definition it is OK, but what if it looks bad because of the distortion? I have taken plenty portraits that I have binned because of it. Once you notice it you will see it all the time.
 
strumstrum said:
what is wrong with standing back a bit then crop PP??
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Because you are effectively reducing the mega-pixel rating of your camera. Say for instance I wanted a photo to go on a billboard, I wouldn't be able to throw away pixels.
 
DaydreamJay said:
If I didn't stand so close I wouldn't get the right crop. It's a fixed focal length.
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As I've always said about focal length for portraits...

If it's an attractive model use a 12mm but if the model is rough or smells or looks like being dangerous use 200mm.
 
CSB said:
Then YOU have the wrong lens for what YOU want to achieve. That doesn't mean everyone else has the wrong lens as different people will want different outcomes. There is more than one way to take a portrait!
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Of course there is more than one type of portrait. But if a lens actually prevents you from taking a certain style of portrait i.e. a face shot then what's the point of having it when you could get a lens that doesn't do that?
 
DaydreamJay said:
If I didn't stand so close I wouldn't get the right crop. It's a fixed focal length.
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Stand back and crop in tighter in post if you want a headshot and you don't need to print it big. It's a quick fix and far from perfect.

Still stand by the fact that you don't seem to grasp portraiture as a whole genre of photography.

I've seen portraiture shot with anything from 14-400mm.

Do I like distortion? No. I agree its not desirable at the wide end. But portraiture can of course be shot with a 50mm lens and any suggestion otherwise is crazy. Just not ideal for up close headshot. A lot of portrait,beauty and fashion photographers shoot headshots with very long tele lenses for its distortion characteristics
 
DaydreamJay said:
Of course there is more than one type of portrait. But if a lens actually prevents you from taking a certain style of portrait i.e. a face shot then what's the point of having it when you could get a lens that doesn't do that?
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Good luck with your photography Jason and indeed in life altogether. I feel you need it.
 
DaydreamJay said:
For further info on this issue or basically if you just think I'm talking garbage check out this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)
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quote from the wikipedia link
Note that perspective distortion is caused by distance, not by the lens per se – two shots of the same scene from the same distance will exhibit identical perspective distortion, regardless of lens used. However, since wide-angle lenses have a wider field of view, they are generally used from closer, while telephoto lenses have a narrower field of view and are generally used from further away. For example, if standing at a distance so that a normal lens captures someone's face, a shot with a wide-angle lens or telephoto lens from the same distance will have exactly the same perspective on the face, though the wide-angle lens may fit the entire body into the shot, while the telephoto lens captures only the nose. However, crops of these three images with the same coverage will yield the same perspective distortion – the nose will look the same in all three. Conversely, if all three lenses are used from distances such that the face fills the field, the wide-angle will be used from closer, making the nose larger, and the telephoto will be used from further, making the nose smaller.

so it is not the lens but the photographer
 
Quite wish I hadn't bothered now.
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Well I wouldn't have given this thread any attention at all, if it hadn't been for this little gem:

FFS you try to make a constructive post on here and people suddenly lose the ability to discuss and debate. Small wonder that proper photographers don't use the site.
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I'm sure you'll guess it's the bold text that's really annoyed me. You do realise you've insulted everyone here, don't you?
 
DaydreamJay said:
Of course there is more than one type of portrait. But if a lens actually prevents you from taking a certain style of portrait i.e. a face shot then what's the point of having it when you could get a lens that doesn't do that?
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You're talking gibberish. Of course lenses are restricted in their use, that's applicable to every lens at every length.

You're using the wrong lens for the job, its not a new discovery, its called physics.
 
Ste Manns said:
Well I wouldn't have given this thread any attention at all, if it hadn't been for this little gem:
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By that comment I wasn't in any way suggesting that I was a proper photographer. I am far from it - however I do like to learn.
 
DaydreamJay said:
Because you are effectively reducing the mega-pixel rating of your camera. Say for instance I wanted a photo to go on a billboard, I wouldn't be able to throw away pixels.
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lets be realistic and leave the word 'billboard' out eh :bang:... you have 14mp which is ample enough for you to stand back a bit and then crop in PP..

and IIRC billboards are pretty low res so should the occasion arise you'll probably be okay.
 
strumstrum said:
lets be realistic and leave the word 'billboard' out eh :bang:... you have 14mp which is ample enough for you to stand back a bit and then crop in PP..

and IIRC billboards are pretty low res so should the occasion arise you'll probably be okay.
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OK forget billboards. I have a wide format printer which I know will suffer from resolution loss.
 
DaydreamJay said:
Why is this site so full of snide condescending prats?
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The vast majority of people on here are friendly and helpful. Posting massive sweeping statements as if they are universal facts then getting arsey when people question your logic isn't really the way to go imo.

Instead of worrying disproportionately about a small amount of distortion, maybe worry more about whether it is a good photo or not.
 
I have used a 50mm for 'in-situ' portraits on both a Hasselblad and a Mamiya RB67 didn't seem too short to me ;)
 
DaydreamJay said:
A fixed focal length will determine where you have to stand to get a full head shot.
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The Photographer decides what he wants to achieve and picks the lens for that shoot,
He is unlikely to pick a 35mm to shoot a bird in flight ½ a mile away or a 600mm for a head shoot 5 yards away
 
grum said:
The vast majority of people on here are friendly and helpful. Posting massive sweeping statements as if they are universal facts then getting arsey when people question your logic isn't really the way to go imo.
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It's not my logic, it's physics. It's not negotiable and it doesn't like being disputed.
 
Oh and btw - with the shots you binned you could really easily have fixed any distortion in Lightroom or Photoshop. Oops.

DaydreamJay said:
It's not my logic, it's physics. It's not negotiable and it doesn't like being disputed.
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No it's your opinion. Realising the difference between your opinion and facts helps avoid looking very arrogant and silly. :thumbs:
 
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Is this not a portrait then?

50mm Hasselblad lens on a Canon 1DsMk3

LucasSqBW.jpg
 
EdBray said:
I have used a 50mm for 'in-situ' portraits on both a Hasselblad and a Mamiya RB67 didn't seem too short to me ;)
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50mm isn't a classic portrait lens on a Hasselblad. None of the students or staff at college would use one, they use a 150mm for close up shots.
 
EdBray said:
Is this not a portrait then?

50mm Hasselblad lens on a Canon 1DsMk3
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Exactamondo....apparently not, because a portrait is a headshot. Lol
 
DaydreamJay said:
It's not my logic, it's physics. It's not negotiable and it doesn't like being disputed.
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the laws of physics mean a fixed focal length lens cannot fit every shot the photographer has to pick the best for each shoot
 
grum said:
Oh and btw - with the shots you binned you could really easily have fixed any distortion in Lightroom or Photoshop. Oops.



No it's your opinion. Realising the difference between your opinion and facts helps avoid looking very arrogant and silly. :thumbs:
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I know I can correct distortion in PP but I'm a bit old school, I want to learn properly how to take a photo.

And no it's not an opinion that 50mm lenses will distort a close up shot, it's a fact. And if you know how much I hate people who say "fact" after statements you'd realise how much it pains me to do similar :D
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Exactamondo....apparently not, because a portrait is a headshot. Lol
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Who said that? I didn't say that. Whoever said it was wrong. However some portraits are head shots and in that case I do not want a lens that doesn't allow me to do that.
 
Jason, don't let anyone tell you what lens you can, or cannot use. It is purely dependant on what you want your final image to look like.

However if you need to record an image as close to real life as possible, that would be a different story.

I consider myself an artist, and deliberately like to interpret what I see in a way I like. :)
 
DaydreamJay said:
50mm isn't a classic portrait lens on a Hasselblad. None of the students or staff at college would use one, they use a 150mm for close up shots.
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Those that can do, those that can't teach :p :lol:
 
Ste Manns said:
Well for a start, you've decided that none of us are 'proper photographers', not to mention telling us in another thread that our beloved cameras are made of Lego. You aren't endearing yourself, that's for sure :bonk:
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Deary me - I said in the lego thread that I was making the point "jokingly" - people overlooked that fact before wading in. I also stated that the "proper photographers" statement was sarcastic.

Update on the 450Ds though - they were STOLEN two days ago along with £27K worth of other cameras and equipment from our college. :(
 
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